UK Liberal Democrats leadership election, 2017
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 06:45:53 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  International Elections (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  UK Liberal Democrats leadership election, 2017
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
Author Topic: UK Liberal Democrats leadership election, 2017  (Read 12785 times)
Vega
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,253
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #50 on: June 15, 2017, 11:32:23 PM »

I honestly do think though they could benefit from some rebranding. Maybe dropping the Democrats and just calling themselves the 'Liberal Party' would more accurately capture them at this point.

I definitely do think Norman Lamb is the best option. Alistair Carmichael would be a good fit for Deputy Leader to show the look towards Scotland among the party. Obviously Jo Swinson should be given a prominent role as a spokesperson of some sort.
Logged
Kamala
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,499
Madagascar


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #51 on: June 15, 2017, 11:45:46 PM »

I guess they could fold and simply become the Orkney and Shetland Party.

Or the Jo Party (Grimond; Swinson)

Hmm. Could they potentially reconfigure themselves as some sort of "Scottish Unionist Party" as opposed to the SNP? Actually I think that strategy would fail worse than the Remain Party. Nevermind.
Logged
Gary J
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 286
United Kingdom
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2017, 04:11:22 AM »

I honestly do think though they could benefit from some rebranding. Maybe dropping the Democrats and just calling themselves the 'Liberal Party' would more accurately capture them at this point.

I definitely do think Norman Lamb is the best option. Alistair Carmichael would be a good fit for Deputy Leader to show the look towards Scotland among the party. Obviously Jo Swinson should be given a prominent role as a spokesperson of some sort.

There already is a Liberal Party registered with the Electoral Commission. This is a small, minor party which was set up by some opponents of the merger with the SDP which created the Liberal Democrats. It has drifted quite a long way from the policies of the pre-1988 Liberal Party and the Liberal Democrats, particularly on Europe.

http://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/Registrations/PP54

Logged
Lord Halifax
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,304
Papua New Guinea


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2017, 05:45:37 AM »

I honestly do think though they could benefit from some rebranding. Maybe dropping the Democrats and just calling themselves the 'Liberal Party' would more accurately capture them at this point.

I definitely do think Norman Lamb is the best option. Alistair Carmichael would be a good fit for Deputy Leader to show the look towards Scotland among the party. Obviously Jo Swinson should be given a prominent role as a spokesperson of some sort.

Huh? Swinson is Scottish, and a much better politician than Carmichael.
Logged
Tintrlvr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,282


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2017, 05:47:21 AM »

I honestly do think though they could benefit from some rebranding. Maybe dropping the Democrats and just calling themselves the 'Liberal Party' would more accurately capture them at this point.

I definitely do think Norman Lamb is the best option. Alistair Carmichael would be a good fit for Deputy Leader to show the look towards Scotland among the party. Obviously Jo Swinson should be given a prominent role as a spokesperson of some sort.

As someone else noted, the "Liberal Party" name isn't available currently (and unlikely to become available soon). They've bandied about rebranding as the Democratic Party or the Democrats in the recent past, but I think voters would rightly view any name change as silly.
Logged
Zinneke
JosepBroz
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,069
Belgium


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2017, 06:54:47 AM »

I honestly do think though they could benefit from some rebranding. Maybe dropping the Democrats and just calling themselves the 'Liberal Party' would more accurately capture them at this point.

I definitely do think Norman Lamb is the best option. Alistair Carmichael would be a good fit for Deputy Leader to show the look towards Scotland among the party. Obviously Jo Swinson should be given a prominent role as a spokesperson of some sort.

Huh? Swinson is Scottish, and a much better politician than Carmichael.

https://youtu.be/typQ_JY85hc?t=6m31s

Getting demolished by Galloway on tuition on frees. Bodes well for the student vote.
Logged
Gary J
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 286
United Kingdom
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2017, 08:01:43 AM »

I honestly do think though they could benefit from some rebranding. Maybe dropping the Democrats and just calling themselves the 'Liberal Party' would more accurately capture them at this point.

I definitely do think Norman Lamb is the best option. Alistair Carmichael would be a good fit for Deputy Leader to show the look towards Scotland among the party. Obviously Jo Swinson should be given a prominent role as a spokesperson of some sort.

As someone else noted, the "Liberal Party" name isn't available currently (and unlikely to become available soon). They've bandied about rebranding as the Democratic Party or the Democrats in the recent past, but I think voters would rightly view any name change as silly.

When the merged party started in 1988, as the Social and Liberal Democrats, it tried using the short name the Democrats. Unfortunately this confused the electorate, who had no idea who this new group were. The party rapidly settled upon Liberal Democrats as the short name, which eventually became the official name of the party.
Logged
Lord Halifax
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,304
Papua New Guinea


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2017, 08:19:34 AM »

I honestly do think though they could benefit from some rebranding. Maybe dropping the Democrats and just calling themselves the 'Liberal Party' would more accurately capture them at this point.

I definitely do think Norman Lamb is the best option. Alistair Carmichael would be a good fit for Deputy Leader to show the look towards Scotland among the party. Obviously Jo Swinson should be given a prominent role as a spokesperson of some sort.

Huh? Swinson is Scottish, and a much better politician than Carmichael.

https://youtu.be/typQ_JY85hc?t=6m31s

Getting demolished by Galloway on tuition on frees. Bodes well for the student vote.

Old hat. The coalition won't stay relevant forever, too much has happened in British politics since then.

The LibDems aren't going to get the youth vote (and young people still have crap turnout); that isn't who they need to appeal to.
Logged
Zinneke
JosepBroz
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,069
Belgium


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2017, 01:02:34 PM »

I honestly do think though they could benefit from some rebranding. Maybe dropping the Democrats and just calling themselves the 'Liberal Party' would more accurately capture them at this point.

I definitely do think Norman Lamb is the best option. Alistair Carmichael would be a good fit for Deputy Leader to show the look towards Scotland among the party. Obviously Jo Swinson should be given a prominent role as a spokesperson of some sort.

Huh? Swinson is Scottish, and a much better politician than Carmichael.

https://youtu.be/typQ_JY85hc?t=6m31s

Getting demolished by Galloway on tuition on frees. Bodes well for the student vote.

Old hat. The coalition won't stay relevant forever, too much has happened in British politics since then.

The LibDems aren't going to get the youth vote (and young people still have crap turnout); that isn't who they need to appeal to.

Really though? because we've seen Macron and D66 do insanely well in Univeristy towns and with university graduate, and that brand of liberalism is clearly appealing to that demographic. Furthermore, tuition fees are massive vote winenr with the 40+ % of people who go to uni at some stage and get themselves 27.000 in debt.

I think the LibDems next focus should be regaining the South West, but after that they must go back to presenting themselves to a demographic that wants a quality public service and individual freedom.
Logged
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,639
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2017, 01:13:59 PM »

When the merged party started in 1988, as the Social and Liberal Democrats, it tried using the short name the Democrats. Unfortunately this confused the electorate, who had no idea who this new group were. The party rapidly settled upon Liberal Democrats as the short name, which eventually became the official name of the party.

That's hilarious.
Logged
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,639
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2017, 02:49:48 PM »

Instructional image (number of seats within share range; middle column):-



The divisions in Labour over Brexit might offer an opportunity for their revival, but as it stands whoever they choose is stepping into a situation when they're nowhere in 92% of GB seats (they're 2nd in only 1 seat of the 2nd tier, so are liable to be squeezed into <10%).
Logged
Gary J
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 286
United Kingdom
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2017, 03:43:07 PM »

The Liberal Democrat strategy is to devote resources to a limited number of constituencies so as to gradually expand the number of seats won. Seats outside the target group do not matter much, at least in the early stages of the process.

The effect of the coalition was to close down some previously areas of advance and to re-start the process of growth from a lower starting point.

The strategy followed produced a net gain of four seats over the 2015 general election. There are some other seats which would be sensible targets at the next general election.

The Liberal Democrats are unlikely to make enormous gains at any one election, but are in no realistic danger of disappearing however much partisans of other parties might wish they would.
Logged
Kingpoleon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,144
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2017, 03:46:13 PM »

Also worth noting that the one characteristic they should look out for is someone who generally comes across well as a leader; there's a reason that Thatcher/Blair/Clegg/Cameron were all able to do bend their parties ideologies, and perform very well in elections. If they had someone like Clegg without his baggage they could do well regardless of what position they take

They desperately need someone with the magnetism and charisma of Clegg.

Honestly, I would like to see the Liberal Democrats become the centrist party, and, outside of England, they should run as unionist devolution-supporters. If they manage to solidify their credentials as the pro-Europe, centrist party, eventually they will catch back on with the youth.
Logged
Lord Halifax
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,304
Papua New Guinea


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #63 on: June 16, 2017, 03:47:31 PM »

The Liberal Democrat strategy is to devote resources to a limited number of constituencies so as to gradually expand the number of seats won. Seats outside the target group do not matter much, at least in the early stages of the process.

The effect of the coalition was to close down some previously areas of advance and to re-start the process of growth from a lower starting point.

The strategy followed produced a net gain of four seats over the 2015 general election. There are some other seats which would be sensible targets at the next general election.

The Liberal Democrats are unlikely to make enormous gains at any one election, but are in no realistic danger of disappearing however much partisans of other parties might wish they would.


But they might seize to be national party by being eliminated outside of the SE/London and Scotland.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,959
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #64 on: June 16, 2017, 03:54:00 PM »

Instructional image (number of seats within share range; middle column):-



The divisions in Labour over Brexit might offer an opportunity for their revival, but as it stands whoever they choose is stepping into a situation when they're nowhere in 92% of GB seats (they're 2nd in only 1 seat of the 2nd tier, so are liable to be squeezed into <10%).

This chart also suggests that Labour vote is pretty inefficiently distributed. They were over 60% in 115 seats, while the Tories, despite their higher percentage, only were in 90.
Logged
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,639
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2017, 04:18:54 PM »

Before the 2015 collapse in Scotland, Labour's vote was actually much more efficient than the Tories.

The Liberal Democrats are unlikely to make enormous gains at any one election, but are in no realistic danger of disappearing however much partisans of other parties might wish they would.

No-one's actually said that - they're just returning to their pre-74 position, of having a minority of Liberal bulwarks (several of those won back last week) but a vote so weak in 90%> of the country that it gets squeezed out of relevance - as can be seen by looking at the changes since 2015 in most seats.
Logged
adma
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,718
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #66 on: June 16, 2017, 05:58:32 PM »

The problem with the strategy of the Lib Dems going back to the halcyon days of the 70s is: Corbyn's sewed up the beards-and-sandals brigade ;-)
Logged
parochial boy
parochial_boy
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,114


Political Matrix
E: -8.38, S: -6.78

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #67 on: June 16, 2017, 11:53:05 PM »

Also worth noting that the one characteristic they should look out for is someone who generally comes across well as a leader; there's a reason that Thatcher/Blair/Clegg/Cameron were all able to do bend their parties ideologies, and perform very well in elections. If they had someone like Clegg without his baggage they could do well regardless of what position they take

If they manage to solidify their credentials as the pro-Europe, centrist party, eventually they will catch back on with the youth.

Why would that help them with young voters?

Yeah, don't forget that their pre-2015 popularity with young voters was in no small part thanks to the fact that they presented themselves as to the left of Labour (not just tuition fees but Iraq, civil liberties and the Charles Kennedy brand of social democracy)
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,611


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2017, 12:00:00 AM »

Also worth noting that the one characteristic they should look out for is someone who generally comes across well as a leader; there's a reason that Thatcher/Blair/Clegg/Cameron were all able to do bend their parties ideologies, and perform very well in elections. If they had someone like Clegg without his baggage they could do well regardless of what position they take

If they manage to solidify their credentials as the pro-Europe, centrist party, eventually they will catch back on with the youth.

Why would that help them with young voters?

Yeah, don't forget that their pre-2015 popularity with young voters was in no small part thanks to the fact that they presented themselves as to the left of Labour (not just tuition fees but Iraq, civil liberties and the Charles Kennedy brand of social democracy)

Well, that's obviously gone now that Corbyn and not Blair is the Labour leader.
Logged
Zanas
Zanas46
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,947
France


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2017, 06:00:04 AM »

Only somewhat related, but do we know how Orkney and Shetland vote separately ? Is the LibDem base evenly distributed or more on one of the archipelagos ?
Logged
Tintrlvr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,282


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2017, 09:00:54 AM »

Only somewhat related, but do we know how Orkney and Shetland vote separately ? Is the LibDem base evenly distributed or more on one of the archipelagos ?

They have separate seats in the Scottish parliament, and the Lib Dems hold both with huge majorities, so I would assume evenly distributed.
Logged
bore
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,274
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2017, 02:51:39 PM »

Only somewhat related, but do we know how Orkney and Shetland vote separately ? Is the LibDem base evenly distributed or more on one of the archipelagos ?

IIRC in the 2015 close shave (The Lib Dem majority was only 4% or something) the word from the count was that Carmicheal won Orkney but lost Shetland. Although given other results I imagine that wasn't due to innate partisanship but because Danus Skene, the SNP candidate, was based in Shetland and Carmichael is based in Orkney, and if there is one place in the UK where people are most likely to vote for local candidates for local people it's Orkney and Shetland.
Logged
Kingpoleon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,144
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2017, 06:49:04 PM »

Also worth noting that the one characteristic they should look out for is someone who generally comes across well as a leader; there's a reason that Thatcher/Blair/Clegg/Cameron were all able to do bend their parties ideologies, and perform very well in elections. If they had someone like Clegg without his baggage they could do well regardless of what position they take

If they manage to solidify their credentials as the pro-Europe, centrist party, eventually they will catch back on with the youth.

Why would that help them with young voters?

Yeah, don't forget that their pre-2015 popularity with young voters was in no small part thanks to the fact that they presented themselves as to the left of Labour (not just tuition fees but Iraq, civil liberties and the Charles Kennedy brand of social democracy)

Of course. They need to be the party of civil liberties as well. I quite admire the platform of Kennedy 2005 and Clegg 2010 Liberal Democrats. Unfortunately, Clegg's apology became a joke song instead of being accepted.
Logged
Tintrlvr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,282


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2017, 08:20:10 PM »

Only somewhat related, but do we know how Orkney and Shetland vote separately ? Is the LibDem base evenly distributed or more on one of the archipelagos ?

IIRC in the 2015 close shave (The Lib Dem majority was only 4% or something) the word from the count was that Carmicheal won Orkney but lost Shetland. Although given other results I imagine that wasn't due to innate partisanship but because Danus Skene, the SNP candidate, was based in Shetland and Carmichael is based in Orkney, and if there is one place in the UK where people are most likely to vote for local candidates for local people it's Orkney and Shetland.

Agree on both counts. For what it's worth, the Lib Dem candidates for Scottish parliament in Orkney and in Shetland in 2016 both won nearly the exact same percentage of the vote (67%), although there has been some variance in the past depending on whether there was an incumbent or not and on independent candidates.
Logged
MAINEiac4434
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,269
France


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -8.78

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #74 on: June 18, 2017, 12:24:28 PM »

Then Lamb's the favorite.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.064 seconds with 12 queries.