What are the roots of the current divisiveness of American politics/discourse? (user search)
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  What are the roots of the current divisiveness of American politics/discourse? (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Select all that apply
#1
Lingering effects of Great Recession/Economic Inequality
 
#2
America is an empire in a post-imperial world - our large and diverse country naturally lends itself to increased division
 
#3
The government has become complacent as neither party has faced a true existential threat in decades
 
#4
The media is incentivized to promote conflict and sensationalism
 
#5
People feel less agency over the decisions made by government due to increased influence of pan-national organizations like the UN and WTO
 
#6
White men threatened by the rise of women and minorities
 
#7
Lack of a common existential threat - USSR, Nazis, Al-Qaeda
 
#8
A general moral decay, due to increasing irreligiosity and secularism
 
#9
Foreign powers have nurtured divisions between Americans to weaken the nation on the international stage
 
#10
Social media has strengthened the "bubbles" we live in, by showing us hundreds of people who agree with us and little else
 
#11
Other (explain)
 
#12
Americans are divided, but that's a good thing and reflects a strong democracy
 
#13
America is not any more divided now than it has been in the recent past, it just feels that way
 
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Total Voters: 104

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Author Topic: What are the roots of the current divisiveness of American politics/discourse?  (Read 5378 times)
hopper
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Posts: 3,414
United States


« on: June 24, 2017, 11:30:30 PM »
« edited: June 24, 2017, 11:51:58 PM by hopper »

Major factors:
1)America is not any more divided now than it has been in the recent past, it just feels that way: I actually think that the relative bipartisanship of the 1940s-1970s is the historical exception to the rule, rather than the standard
2)Lingering effects of Great Recession/Economic Inequality: I'd point more to the relative decline of the U.S. economy since the 1970s, as other countries modernize and take advantage of low trade barriers
3)White men threatened by the rise of women and minorities: I'd break this down into three factors: Whites threatened/angered by government programs aiding minorities (especially blacks) since the 1960s[/b],[/b] immigration, and the feminist and LGBT movement alienating cultural conservatives
4)Lack of a common existential threat - USSR, Nazis, Al-Qaeda: The lack of a common existential threat since the end of the Cold War, specifically, although al-Qaeda filled that role in a lot of peoples' minds for about a year

Another factor that comes to mind is a broad disaffection with government since the late 1960s, which I think is to some degree a phenomenon independent of the other factors. This led to a separation between those who see the government as a force for good and those who see it as basically a parasite (and of course there are other groups with more nuanced views)

Moderate factors:
5)America is an empire in a post-imperial world - our large and diverse country naturally lends itself to increased division: I don't know about the post-imperial world part, but the diversity is a challenge (as well as an asset)
6)The media is incentivized to promote conflict and sensationalism
7)Social media has strengthened the "bubbles" we live in, by showing us hundreds of people who agree with us and little else
CoolA general moral decay, due to increasing irreligiosity and secularism: I don't agree with this statement. But I agree that the decline of Christianity has made many feel threatened, which goes into point number three above

Negligible factors:
People feel less agency over the decisions made by government due to increased influence of pan-national organizations like the UN and WTO: I would think that the rise of the bureaucratic state has affected "agency" far more than the rise of intergovernmental organizations. I think only the ideological fringe really cares about these groups.

Foreign powers have nurtured divisions between Americans to weaken the nation on the international stage: The only country that has done this successfully to some degree is Israel (specifically Netanyahu), but it hasn't had that big of an effect. Russia meddled in the election but I don't think that that has appreciably added to divisiveness (at least not yet)
On the federal programs front how many more programs do you think the Federal Government can add? The Federal Government is already 20 trillion dollars in the hole. I don't mind federal social safety net programs like Medicaid I mean the poor have to have access to Medical Services.
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hopper
Sr. Member
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Posts: 3,414
United States


« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 11:57:48 PM »

It began with the National Review. The National Review influenced Barry Goldwater, who captured the Republican nomination in 1964, ending the rule that only a moderate could be nominated for President by a major party. The culture wars of the 1960s and early 1970s divided America, as did the Reagan Revolution. It really went off the deep end when Newt Gingrich established a doctrine for congressional Republicans when a Democrat is in the White House: make wild accusations, never compromise, always obstruct, have hearings on everything, etc.

So it is just the Republicans fault? Democrats don't have any part in it whatsoever? Ok.

What specifically did the Democrats do that has played a role in this?  Just because there are two parties (literally) to this doesn't mean they are equally to blame or even that they both share blame.  

Thomas Mann is a liberal Democrat, but, while Norm Ornstein used to be a conservative Democrat he also used to work (or maybe he still does) for the conservative leaning American Enterprise Institute.


Let's Just Say It: The Republicans Are the Problem
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/lets-just-say-it-the-republicans-are-the-problem/2012/04/27/gIQAxCVUlT_story.html?utm_term=.197346bfc6b4
Yes I believe Norm Ornstein still works at "The American Enterprise Institute".
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hopper
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,414
United States


« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2017, 12:00:08 AM »

The extreme divisiveness in the political class goes back to Newt Gingrich and Lee Atwater.

I get tired of hearing the lazy 'both sides are equally bad' nonsense.  There was one comment here of the excessive hatred on the left for George W Bush.  The George W Bush Administration lied to the public to lead the nation into an unnecessary war and then compounded that by handling the post war situation in Iraq about as incompetently as possible.  I'm sorry, what is 'excessive hate' (or whatever the phrase was) over this?

Then, after that and two terms of President Obama Republicans nominated Donald Trump to be their Presidential nominee.  George W Bush and Donald Trump will almost certainly go down as two of the worst Presidents in U.S history (if not world history.) 

There is simply no comparison with the Administrations of President Clinton and President Obama.

In terms of the divisiveness with the public, I think there are a couple things here:
1.A good deal of the public is certainly at least an partisan as the politicians. I don't know what it is, but the Republican Party/Trump enablers seem to have lost their minds.  It seems pretty evident that all they are capable of doing is mindlessly regurgitating the phrase 'fake news' to every story critical of President Trump.

2.That aside, I don't know if they are fully reflective of the public and even if they are fully reflective of Republicans/Trump supporters.  I think with a lot of the discussions on the internet the exact same thing as with George Akerlof's used car lemon problem is occurring: those who aren't reflexive hyper partisan see the on line discussions and a lot of them basically throw up their hands and decide there is no point in adding a more thoughtful comment. So, the only people left to make comments on most web boards are the hyper partisans and the trolls.
I think Obama wasn't that good of a President either along with Trump and Bush W. There hasn't been a good president since Bill Clinton.
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hopper
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,414
United States


« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2017, 12:05:26 AM »

It all goes back to Newt Gingrich's decision in the 1980s to wage "guerilla warfare" against the Democrats in Congress.  That led to constant gridlock and disdain for government.
The Democrats had the House Majority in the 1980's though. Yes the Republicans had the Presidency for nearly all of the decade except for 1980 when Carter was still in the White House. Also, The Republicans had the Senate Majority for a little over half of the 1980's(1981-1986) while the Democrats controlled the Senate Majority for the other 4 years of the decade(1980, 1987-1989.)
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hopper
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,414
United States


« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2017, 12:22:10 AM »

this all why the far left called bush

-illegitimate
-war criminal
- a dictator
- somebody who is a threat to American democracy
- called him racist


All of these were so outrageous that DU , TYT , all the far left commentators should apologize for using such malicious lies against Dubya


so anybody from the far left willing to apologize for this

For what?  Those are pretty standard lines used against any President.


Calling someone a war criminal you think is not outrageously bad .

W may not classified a war-criminal, but his foreign policy decisions, especially the invasion of Iraq, was a complete disaster. He and his neocon administration lied the heck out of it and made stuff up to legitimate a war. Not to mention torture and all the stuff that ruined our standing in vast parts of the world. For sure, Saddam was a horrible dictator, but terrorism and ISIS are even worse. It's mostly the fault of Bush Administration, although I acknowledge that the end result was not W's intent. But they are the result of wrong decisions made by this administration. The other points on W are garbage, he's neither a racist nor was he a dictator, though his 2000 victory is at least questionable.

But if we're talking about hate for a president, we should also talk about the far-right and Tea Partiers and their bigotry and hatred for Obama. They floated the stupid idea that he was born in Kenya, that he's a muslim etc. They did everything to damage this president, mostly due to racism. They hate him more than they love America. For sure, Obama is not perfect and he made some mistakes. But what the Tea Party did with Obama is a disgrace- and shameful.
Most Tea Partiers weren't racist. Some were. There are crazies in every crowd.
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hopper
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,414
United States


« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2017, 12:26:24 AM »

50% - The Republican Party
50% - Baby Boomers
Baby Boomers-I don't know what you mean that Baby Boomers are 50% to blame for political polarization. A lot of Baby Boomers voted for Obama both times(2008 and 2012) I think.
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