MD-Gov: Don't be Jealous!

[junior chįmp]

Bye bye Hogan

[junior chįmp]

Hogan is finished....spent tax payer monies to install a heated sidewalk at his mansion. Sad!

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[junior chįmp]

While I'm open to the idea of single-payer, I don't think a state-level system would work, especially in Maryland where the resulting shock to the market would force health care companies to lay-off their workers. It doesn't inspire much confidence in me that Jealous said that people "would just have to get another job."

I agree. I think pro-single payer people are getting too impatient and trying to do this at a level that probably isn't sustainable. At the very least, it's not individually sustainable in every state, and I doubt MD is one of them. I'd rather just wait however long it takes for it to happen federally instead of trying a system that might fail big time and discredit the idea. There is already hesitation with it because of the potential costs, and if progressives force a big state-level experiment that implodes, it'll be hard to get support for it at the federal level where it might actually work.

This doesnt have to be so. In 1909, Congress introduced the first Social Security bill which failed. In 1914, Arizona created the first state social security system which the state supreme court ruled unconstitutional. In 1923, a social security plan passed in Pennsylvania but was declared unconstitutional by the state supreme court, and a plan that passed in Nevada was later repealed. In Ohio, voters voted down a referendum for a government social security plan while Montana's Social Security law passed and was ruled constitutional by the state supreme court.

The point here being that whether or not a universal health care system fails in MD is irrelevant in the bigger picture of things. Just keep trying at the state level until it reaches the federal level.

[junior chįmp]

The point here being that whether or not a universal health care system fails in MD is irrelevant in the bigger picture of things. Just keep trying at the state level until it reaches the federal level.

But all those instances you gave were either repealed outright, rejected by voters or ruled unconstitutional. I'm talking about a system that goes live, stays operational and then proceeds to implode spectacularly, and maybe even leaving the state's finances in a catastrophic situation. If there is a plan out there that can avoid all that by more than just luck without raising taxes so much that voters themselves prevent it from going live, then I'd like to see it, but as it stands now the idea if expensive and it would require repurposing Medicaid dollars I think.  And it's not just about keeping it viable in the eyes of conservative voters on the fence with it, it's about keeping i viable in the eyes of Democratic politicians, who are easily spooked as it is. Another issue that state-level plans make me wonder about is people migrating to that state just for free healthcare, which could be a long-term issue if no other states do it. I don't think it's constitutional to ban interlopers from taking advantage of that system.

Also pre-1930s judicial rejection of Social Security seems like a nice preview of a conservative future: conservative judges reject everything big / notable the left wants to do, making up legalese to justify it as they go.

My point was only that any social movement in America takes an ungodly amount of time to reach the federal level and faces a ton of roadblocks along the way. A state separately setting up its own Universal Health care system would not be so bad even if it failed because throughout American history, most legislation like the 8 hour workday, overtime, workers comp, the minimum wage, started at the state level and took decades to reach the federal level.

In Canada for example, Alberta passed a bill in 1935 creating a provincial insurance program, but the plan was scrapped due to the majority party losing and because of the great depression. In 1936, a health insurance bill passed in British Columbia, but it too was scrapped due to objections from doctors.

Saskatchewan passed universal health care in 1947 but the province was too broke to pay for it. In 1950, Alberta passed a health care plan that covered 90% of the population (a bit like Obamacare in that regard).  It wasnt until 1957 that federal implementation happened in Canada and it took until 1961 for all provinces to participate. The program was further expanded in 1966.