Gillibrand withdraws support for anti-BDS bill
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  Gillibrand withdraws support for anti-BDS bill
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Author Topic: Gillibrand withdraws support for anti-BDS bill  (Read 3898 times)
Cory
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2017, 09:24:00 AM »

There is nothing wrong with the bill BDS has flirted with antisemitism throughout its history.

That doesn't mean you get to make it illegal.

What part of this is so difficult for some people to understand?
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Coraxion
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2017, 11:12:13 AM »

Damn and I really liked her as a candidate too.
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Deblano
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2017, 11:14:31 AM »

That is unconstitutional
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Deblano
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2017, 11:20:35 AM »

There is nothing wrong with the bill BDS has flirted with antisemitism throughout its history.

That doesn't mean you get to make it illegal.

What part of this is so difficult for some people to understand?

A percentage of "Boycott Israel" types tend to be anti-semetic tankies IMO.

That still doesn't mean they don't have a right to free speech. As long as they don't cross the line towards hate speech or violent threats, they have a right to speak. Period.
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P. Clodius Pulcher did nothing wrong
razze
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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2017, 11:42:40 AM »

This is clearly a case of politicians signing their names on something they didn't read. No Senator in their right mind will knowingly cosponsor a bill that imprisons people for free speech.

The issue here is not that people signed onto this bill (once more of the public sees it, they'll likely step away from it), it's that they just blindly followed something put in front of them by AIPAC. We can have a discussion about that, but I don't think any Senator from Ted Cruz to Kirsten Gillibrand is out here trying to make it illegal to express opinions on the status of Israel
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America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
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« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2017, 06:10:18 PM »

The BDS is an antisemitic movement but this bill is just unconstitutional. People should be allowed to boycott any country.
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Possiblymaybe
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« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2017, 06:57:59 PM »

This is clearly a case of politicians signing their names on something they didn't read. No Senator in their right mind will knowingly cosponsor a bill that imprisons people for free speech.

The issue here is not that people signed onto this bill (once more of the public sees it, they'll likely step away from it), it's that they just blindly followed something put in front of them by AIPAC. We can have a discussion about that, but I don't think any Senator from Ted Cruz to Kirsten Gillibrand is out here trying to make it illegal to express opinions on the status of Israel

If they are signing bills they haven't read, that is seriously worrying.
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SteveRogers
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« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2017, 10:33:32 PM »

There is nothing wrong with the bill BDS has flirted with antisemitism throughout its history.

Please, by all means give us the argument for how such a thing would pass Constitutional muster. Should be entertaining.
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2017, 10:36:44 PM »

There is nothing wrong with the bill BDS has flirted with antisemitism throughout its history.

That doesn't mean you get to make it illegal.

What part of this is so difficult for some people to understand?

A percentage of "Boycott Israel" types tend to be anti-semetic tankies IMO.

That still doesn't mean they don't have a right to free speech. As long as they don't cross the line towards hate speech or violent threats, they have a right to speak. Period.

Basically this.

This is the result of BDS' disgusting anti-semitic overreach. However, if the ACLU stood with the Nazis' right to march at Skokie, then I have to stand with BDS' right to continue spreading their hate.

This is a terribly designed bill and will likely be thrown out 9-0 by the SC.
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BlueDogDemocrat
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« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2017, 10:38:15 PM »

The BDS is an antisemitic movement but this bill is just unconstitutional. People should be allowed to boycott any country.
Exactly even if BDS is anti antisemitic it dosn't mean we get to stop them from their opinions. We have the first amendment and that applies to stuff even if you don't agree with it.
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Hammy
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« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2017, 10:45:47 PM »

Gillibrand is a huge opportunist. Same thing with Cuomo, and Schumer to a lesser extent as well. I really don't see her winning the nomination in 2020.

Really says something about politicians from New York.
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Figueira
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« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2017, 07:33:50 PM »

I still like Gillibrand on balance, but God, this is awful.
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Atlas Has Shrugged
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« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2017, 09:57:40 PM »

Democrats are going to nominate her in 2020.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2017, 11:49:56 PM »

This is a clear violation of the First Amendment, for one, and all it will do is increase anti-Semitism, and give the conspiracy theorists more ammo.
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Confused Democrat
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« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2017, 01:56:05 AM »

LOL
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Famous Mortimer
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« Reply #40 on: July 24, 2017, 05:12:03 AM »

I'm in some awful "Jewish community groups" on Facebook that are basically Jewish-supremacist groups. Even those people think this law is terrible. They realize what bad optics it is. One person even said that they thought it was a false flag by pro-Palestinian Democrats to make Israel look bad. He got a dozen likes before someone replied that Chuck Schumer was the main co-sponsor then he deleted his comment.
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #41 on: July 24, 2017, 04:14:04 PM »

So, basically, this bill is bad, but Greenwald was lying about how bad it is.

Never trust the Intercept, people.

http://www.jta.org/2017/07/24/news-opinion/opinion/the-us-anti-bds-bill-may-be-bad-but-not-as-bad-as-some-critics-say
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Cynthia
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« Reply #42 on: July 24, 2017, 06:21:29 PM »

Same. There goes my support for Gillibrand. Cannot in good conscience.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #43 on: August 03, 2017, 03:20:33 PM »

http://www.timesofisrael.com/sen-kirsten-gillibrand-withdraws-support-for-anti-bds-bill/

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McGovernForPrez
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« Reply #44 on: August 03, 2017, 03:26:40 PM »

Yay I can feel comfortable supporting Gillibrand again.
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RedPrometheus
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« Reply #45 on: August 03, 2017, 04:30:18 PM »

Disappointing
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Dr Oz Lost Party!
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« Reply #46 on: August 03, 2017, 05:17:35 PM »

Yep, She's definitely considering a presidential run in the future. Why else would she pull support for a controversial bill? Her senate seat is untouchable.
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SATW
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« Reply #47 on: August 03, 2017, 05:22:04 PM »

This bill doesn't criminalize free speech. This is another instance of hysteria. The same people who want to censor free speech when they don't like it are the ones attacking this bill. Adorable.



Prof. Eugene Kontorovich does a good job of explaining why it is not a violation of free speech: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/07/27/israel-anti-boycott-bill-does-not-violate-free-speech/?utm_term=.a1e5e4d1c946




Here are the highlights:

Kontorovich's piece first:


1. He claims that there already is a law on the books that is directly relevant to this topic and conversation: 1977 Export Administration Act. This law was made in reaction to the Arab Boycott of Israel, though the law can apply to other countries as it doesn't just explicitly say it is only relevant to Israel.

The new bill just clarifies what defines a foreign boycott is and specifies punishments for violations of that law. This law has been held up for decades and it was even pointed out that "refusing to do business is not an inherently expressive activity, as the Supreme Court held in Rumsfeld v. FAIR." (https://www.oyez.org/cases/2005/04-1152)

Also, this bill does nothing close to what the Anti-Israel side is claiming it does. The 1977 law was never used to punish activists who simply state that they support a boycott or that they oppose Israel or any other country. The 1977 law explicitly states that "the many regulations enacted pursuant to the law already define 'support' to be limited to 'certain specified actions' that go well beyond merely 'speech' support."

An example of this:


"However, if a KKK member places his constitutionally protected expression of racial hatred within the context of a commercial transaction — for example, by publishing a “For Sale” notice that says that he will not sell his house to Jews or African Americans — it loses its constitutional protection. The Fair Housing Act forbids publishing such discriminatory notices, and few doubt the constitutionality of the Fair Housing Act."

This is 100% relevant to what BDS aims to do by supporting foreign-backed boycotts. More importantly, BDS has engaged in these actions on college campuses (ex. putting eviction notices on Jewish student's dorms and apartments at NYU: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/pro-palestine-nyu-students-serve-fake-eviction-notices-jewish-undergrads-article-1.1768087)


More importantly, irrelevant to Israel as a whole, the ACLU's misguided opposition to this bill, if legally successful, could void ALL American sanctions on countries like Cuba, Iran, Russia and N. Korea:

"If refusing to do business with a country is protected speech because it could send a message of opposition to that country’s policies, doing business would also be protected speech. Thus, anyone barred from doing business with Iran, Cuba or Sudan would be free to do so if they said it was a message of support for the revolution, or opposition to U.S. policy, or whatever."


Prof. Eugene Volokh also does a good job of explaining why in this own article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2017/07/25/theres-no-first-amendment-right-to-engage-in-anti-israel-boycotts-but-there-is-a-right-to-call-for-such-boycotts/?utm_term=.2a69566c29f9

This article goes into some more detail about what is constitutionally permissible and how the ACLU's opposition could have unintended consequences.
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Pyro
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« Reply #48 on: August 04, 2017, 01:49:19 PM »

Good news that she has retracted her support for this monstrosity.
The fact that it took a backlash to change her mind is concerning.
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ProgressiveCanadian
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« Reply #49 on: August 04, 2017, 02:25:04 PM »

LOL at people supporting this bill on here. You know this bill is against your first amendment right? Your forefathers would be ashamed.
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