Concert of Europe: Rules and General Discussion Thread

[Dereich]

I'd like to join as Portugal, if possible.

[Dereich]

You seem more willing to go with RNG, so I vote do that unless you run into problems with it.

[Dereich]

I think the best solution would  be quickly finding someone else to step in and having them either confirm or deny whatever recently happened (of which I think I'm missing something?) rather than basing everything on short-term gain for one side or another.

And I don't see why any anti-French stuff would necessarily be BINDING; IRL in the Diplomatic Revolution France swung from a rivalry that had lasted centuries to marrying the Dauphan to an Austrian princess in very very short order. Britain switched between loving and hating the Dutch a few times. Austria and Prussia went from ally to enemy rapidly as well.  That's the fun of the stately quadrille.

[Dereich]

Spamage,
Could you say which country is concerned please?

What? Wouldn't it have to be the Netherlands?

[Dereich]

I'll have my orders (military and otherwise) in within a few hours so please wait until then for the military update!

[Dereich]

I'll have everything left in by 8 or 9; my commute will be taking an hour plus longer than usual.

[Dereich]

Same here; it's very hard to be excited when it's a matter of (character) life or death.

[Dereich]

I'll just note that while I'll do my best to be responsive and active this turn, I can't guarantee anything. I'll be in the hurricane path and won't be evacuating, so I may lose power and internet access for a few days.

[Dereich]

As I see I didn't say anything, I approve of the 5 day turn.

For this turn I've already started/done a lot of what I need to do; I can have an at least preliminary set of orders in before I'd be at risk of losing the internet. I wouldn't want the turn extended because of me. God knows I don't want to be kept in suspense with this turn.

[Dereich]

What do you have to be nervous about? The nerves are all on my side.

[Dereich]

Eh. The death toll in the 7 Years War was 850,000 minimum. We're still far from matching that. Let's see what this looks like when it ends, THEN condemn ourselves as brutal maniacs.

[Dereich]

Whaaaat? You withdrawing is the most shocking development yet! Why have you decided to leave?

[Dereich]

As my conduct has been called into question, I intend to defend my actions. Needless to say, I believe that everything I have done makes sense both in and out of game and is perfectly justified.

However, as I've been busy at a football game all day and my post is stretching longer, it'll have to wait until tomorrow when I can finish it.

[Dereich]

Fwiw, I wouldn't say I attacked Dereich's "conduct". It would be utterly idiotic for me or Lumine to threathen to quit/appeal to a moderator because Dereich choose to continue fighting. He's totally entitled to this, and we're not entitled to expect things being made easier for us.

I'll however stand by my opinion the Austria switch was a serious error which, even with no ill-will here, had to do damage to the game setup and I've explained why.

I've never been a fan of a losing player being able to rejoin immediately after suffering a game-over, because it makes things less competitive and less real. However, jumping from one country to other in the middle, especially a country belonging to other camp, is extremely problematic and I've explained why I feel so.

Since I'm still awake and this is immediately relevant, I'll post this part now.

I'll start by saying I had already been looking to switch countries before TimTurner left Austria. Portugal was small, my options to act were limited, and I unable to influence discussions I was uncomfortable with. Plus, the Marquis de Pombal was so effective in his actions in IRL Portugal, all of my non-military moves consisted of "Do X exactly like Pombal did IRL." At first, my intention was to go for Spain, a major power who was basically sitting unused.

After the death of Maria Theresa, TimTurner decided he was no longer going to play as Austria. Already looking for another option, Austria looked very appealing very fast. My initial thought was that I was going to be playing as Joseph himself, forced to negotiate my way out of captivity. When I got the green light from Spamage, I learned that I'd instead be playing as Francis. It made sense; Joseph was a 14 year old child and, as I quickly learned, wouldn't even be eligible to be King of Hungary until a Diet was called.

Just addressing your complaint about the problems from switching, I'm at a loss for what I should have done. I had expressed a desire to leave Portugal. I would have stayed if I had to, but frankly looking for new and innovative places to invade the French with little resistance while watching Europe get completely remade wouldn't be very fun and I wasn't looking forward to it. If Spain HAD fallen vacant and I had moved, I would have had the same knowledge and probably would have joined the war for one side or another. Would THAT have been just as serious an issue? Would ANY switch have been a serious error or should I have been forced to stay within the alliance?

Going through my logs and PMs I can't find anything in particular that would involve me using knowledge I learned from playing as Portugal. But of course that issue can wait; you can read them and judge for yourself once I finish writing everything up.

[Dereich]

So much of what I've been writing is not pertinent to Kal's stated concerns and after that last message I clearly can't keep working for now. I'll post what I have that I think IS relevant to those and if there are any other issues or PMs that might be relevant, those can always be posted later.

I sat back and waited for terms, preparing by going over some other terms from wars Austria lost.  They wanted the Kingdoms of Bohemia and Croatia in their entirety. Plus, any attempt to negotiate would mean upping their demand to include Hungary as well. It had taken very very little time in research to figure out what the loss of Bohemia would mean. Bohemia was by population larger than the Kingdom of Hungary and more importantly was an HRE elector. The last time the Hapsburgs lost the Bohemian vote, they lost the HRE crown for the first time in centuries. Losing Bohemia (especially if the Prussians intended to annex the Electorate of Saxony) would mean permanently losing the Holy Roman Empire to Prussia.

This gets me to one of Kal's points: I put a lot of stock into the difference between the monarch and the Monarchy. If it came down to it, I was perfectly prepared to see Joseph die to protect the Monarchy. (On a side note, I was completely sure that choice wouldn't happen; if forced to REALLY make that decision in-character I would have given in and agreed to anything to protect my son.) The Hapsburg Monarchy would not be "essentially decapitated" by losing a 14 year old boy. It WOULD be decapitated by losing the Empire and the crown jewel of that Empire. My decision on those peace terms was entirely based on the terms presented. The only "plan or strategy" I can think of that might have influenced my decisionmaking was the theoretical plan to dismember France...a plan that I would know about in-character since Lumine's peace proposal mentioned the partial return of Lorraine after France was defeated and partitioned.

When I began making military orders, I don't think anything I knew or used could have come from secret knowledge; I left soon after the turn began. I tried to look at the situation from a purely objective standpoint. I made maps. And while I tried to think of things from the enemy perspective, I don't think any of it used particularly secret knowledge.

As for the willingness of the Austrians to act, I REALLY had to work at it just to keep them from murdering me and to keep Austria from immediately falling apart. I have no doubt that if I was unlucky and hadn't had the huge boost of the HRE dissolution I would have lost this turn. I said as much to my allies in the time between last turn's end and Lumine's HRE announcement.

[Dereich]

Anyone free?

Biggest free power is Spain. I'm not sure if Revolutionary Poland is playable, but that's probably the most important non-player.

There are also several medium powers around; the papacy was played earlier, for one. EDIT: as said below, the Netherlands is probably the most influential non-polish one.

[Dereich]

And that is not a bit early for female suffrage?

It's a bit early for MALE suffrage.

[Dereich]

It was me. I was the one.

[Dereich]

It was me. I was the one.

This isn't the way to inaugurate your rule, young Joseph.

Hey hey, time isn't up yet! I wasn't late!

[Dereich]

Remember peace in Europe? Neither do I!

[Dereich]

You will regret it.

That post right there was pretty chilling, especially with nothing around it to give context.

[Dereich]

Looking at his posting history, it looks like he came back exclusively for this game...if that's the case, him being away might not necessarily be a problem as long as he's back in time for this turn.

[Dereich]

Lol, he's going to be getting messages from every direction. I assume he'll think there's a crisis or something.

[Dereich]

Oh don't worry, I don't intend to leave it at that and will fully justify what I said. In fact, I'm working on that now.

EDIT: I honestly hadn't considered your message as anything but a threat until you explicitly said so. Your playstyle this game would lead to such an assumption.

[Dereich]

I'm working on it.