Has Trump already passed bush, harding, and andrew johnson as the worst?
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  Has Trump already passed bush, harding, and andrew johnson as the worst?
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Author Topic: Has Trump already passed bush, harding, and andrew johnson as the worst?  (Read 2704 times)
Matty
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« on: July 28, 2017, 11:54:09 PM »

Has trump, in your view, already done more damage than those three presidents?
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heatcharger
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2017, 12:00:22 AM »

Him, Buchanan, Johnson, and Bush are fighting it out for the bottom spot. Trump has yet to have the economy tank on his watch or allow the country to be engulfed in a civil war, but there are many reasons to either could happen.
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Matty
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« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2017, 12:04:43 AM »


trump has done far more damage in 6 months than bush did in 8 years.
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2017, 12:06:02 AM »


trump has done far more damage in 6 months than bush did in 8 years.
Trump has hardly done jacks*** except for little things + the big one (pulling out of Paris accords)
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Virginiá
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« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2017, 12:09:15 AM »


trump has done far more damage in 6 months than bush did in 8 years.

That depends on how you want to look at it. Trump is doing far more damage to our institutions and perceptions of government, imo, but Bush did far more tangible damage. Trump is by far a worse person in terms of character and probably committed copious crimes before becoming president, but overall I think Trump certainly has the potential to do more damage. He just hasn't had enough time yet. I'm sure that given the right opportunities, he could just as easily bungle disaster relief or get embroiled in a never-ending quagmire of a war just like Bush, but there still needs to be a catalyst. I mean, if you look at the way he makes decisions and the chaos his administration is constantly mired in, then it should be hard to argue otherwise.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2017, 12:20:16 AM »
« Edited: July 29, 2017, 12:23:25 AM by Ghost of Ruin »


trump has done far more damage in 6 months than bush did in 8 years.

lol..your out of your mind.

I remember paying $3.85 a gallon for gas when I was in High School during the god awful Bush years

My parents lost their house during the economic implosion of 2007/2008

Give it time. Bush made bad medium-term decisions on security and the economy (among other failings). But he (and Cheney) actually did his job.

Trump has set the stage for future demagogues and would-be dictators, damaged our alliances, tripled-down on many terrible choices, poisoned political and public discourse to unprecedented levels, and personally dealt possibly mortal wounds to rule of law and legitimacy of government. Unless he's booted from office soon (having accomplished nothing good whatsoever) he will end up on the bottom. And that takes some doing.

Here's how Bush probably feels about Trump:


(Source comic is not linked, because it is NOT Safe For Work. But funny.)
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2017, 12:33:30 AM »


trump has done far more damage in 6 months than bush did in 8 years.

That depends on how you want to look at it. Trump is doing far more damage to our institutions and perceptions of government, imo, but Bush did far more tangible damage. Trump is by far a worse person in terms of character and probably committed copious crimes before becoming president, but overall I think Trump certainly has the potential to do more damage. He just hasn't had enough time yet. I'm sure that given the right opportunities, he could just as easily bungle disaster relief or get embroiled in a never-ending quagmire of a war just like Bush, but there still needs to be a catalyst. I mean, if you look at the way he makes decisions and the chaos his administration is constantly mired in, then it should be hard to argue otherwise.

Bush damaged our institutions far worse than Trump. He willfully lied about Iraq and the consequences of that war have literally destabilized Europe and the Western world.

If you applied the standards that were used in the Nuremberg Trials of what constitutes a war crime....Bush would of been in jail a long time ago.

True. But so would Obama and Trump. (And I'd be okay all of them there.)

But look at the progression on airstrikes (mostly by unmanned craft):

Bush: kills some people, keeps quite about it.
Obama: kills more people, jokes about it.
Trump: kills lots more people, repeatedly brags about wanting to commit war crimes.

Bush made bad decisions. His successors have amplified and normalized those decisions. I'm really not sure which is worse.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2017, 12:34:45 AM »

Bush, yes. Harding, Johnson, Buchanan, Hoover, No.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2017, 12:35:26 AM »

He has introduced the style of an absolute monarchy, transforming the Presidency into practically a royal court. That is the pattern of George III, and why the Founding Fathers sought to establish a republican form of government. He has decided that he has no responsibility toward those who chose to vote against him and the opposition Party. He has lied frequently about matters best forgotten  (such as his self-proclaimed landslide in November). He has demonized his predecessor who might be just the person to deal with a dangerous situation in Korea. (Contrast the respect that Bill Clinton had for the foreign policy of George H W Bush). He has relied upon yes-men and fanatics to do his bidding.

He betrayed the campaign promises that he made. He uses language in a manner that George Orwell warned us about in 1984. He rejects scientific fact when it runs counter to his ideology. He has debased human rights in America.

He has violated many of the norms of American precedent... and while we have been fortunate that those have not imploded, I can only imagine how badly things can go if something not his doing (an insane act of murderous aggression by the dictator of North Korea, an economic meltdown, or some natural disaster) puts him to the test of statesmanship and he flunks the test at the costs of great human suffering or even mass death.

I am doing everything possible to avoid making a partisan screed out of this assessment. For example I am glad that he failed to achieve some of his promises.  
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The Mikado
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2017, 12:52:16 AM »


trump has done far more damage in 6 months than bush did in 8 years.

A few hundred thousand dead Iraqis would have a lot of cause to disagree with you.
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2017, 12:57:21 AM »

He is definitely worse than Bush.
And at least someone like Carter is a good person, has a warm soul and helps humanity.
Narcissist and wretched trump on the other hand is known for HATE.
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Mike Thick
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 01:35:39 AM »

Nearly impossible to judge without looking through the lens of history.

However, our political climate is in the worst state it's been since the McCarthy Era, and it's hard to say that President Trump hasn't played a big role in the general poisoning of the air. That, and weakening of governmental institutions (like Virginia said) are the two most "bad legacy" things he's done so far.
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GGover
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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2017, 02:15:25 AM »

No, but I'd say he's tied with Andy Johnson and post-stroke Wilson for most ineffective president.

Trump will probably be in the 10 worst by the time he leaves office.
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2017, 02:26:40 AM »

Let me know if he gets a 91% approval rating, and then uses his political capital to start a $2 trillion war for no good reason that leads to the creation of ISIS.
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Shameless Lefty Hack
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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2017, 02:33:02 AM »

He's still not Buchanan (or Pierce, etc, etc, who let the crisis fester)
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2017, 02:40:31 AM »

Not yet.
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Doimper
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2017, 05:11:32 AM »


trump has done far more damage in 6 months than bush did in 8 years.
Trump has hardly done jacks*** except for little things + the big one (pulling out of Paris accords)

Wait, are the true believers starting to crack?
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President Johnson
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2017, 05:14:07 AM »

I start the believe that, if the next three and a half years continue as the past six months, Donald Trump will go down in history as the worst president in history or at least since Andrew Johnson.

Reasons are obvious:

- He is a great divider and has divided the country even further as it already was
- He is wrong on every side, and history will judge him that way. Climate change, renewable energies, civil rights, health-care, foreign policy etc.
- He has zero presidential behavior. Presidents ought be a role model. He's a role model indeed, but a role model in the opposite. His sexism, call for violence, mocking/bullying of people is disgraceful. This has nothing to do with reasonable criticism of reports or anybody else.
- He is totally unable to work with a congress dominated by his own party. He has, as of now, zero legislative accomplishments. What is much to expect?
- He is not capable to run an administration. The White House is a mess. He hasn't even management skills (in part because he is not a successful businessman. If you want one, take  Mike Bloomberg or Bill Gates).
- He is also unable to lead people. His treatment of Sessions alone is disgusting.
- He has zero personal integrity. I don't need to go through a long list of examples.
- What about other phony promises? Trade deals, wall, terrorism, etc? Nothing happend and I don't expect much to change.

Right now, he has already lost most of his political capital after his victory. It won't get easier, but even more difficult. And the whole list above does not even include the whole Russia investigation that could end his presidency sooner or later. For the reasons above I'm sure that Trump will be seen as the worst president in over a century. Even conservative scholars will agree.
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Phony Moderate
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« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2017, 05:53:28 AM »


trump has done far more damage in 6 months than bush did in 8 years.

lol..your out of your mind.

I remember paying $3.85 a gallon for gas when I was in High School during the god awful Bush years

My parents lost their house during the economic implosion of 2007/2008

Give it time. Bush made bad medium-term decisions on security and the economy (among other failings). But he (and Cheney) actually did his job.

Trump has set the stage for future demagogues and would-be dictators, damaged our alliances, tripled-down on many terrible choices, poisoned political and public discourse to unprecedented levels, and personally dealt possibly mortal wounds to rule of law and legitimacy of government. Unless he's booted from office soon (having accomplished nothing good whatsoever) he will end up on the bottom. And that takes some doing.

Not necessarily a desirable trait, particularly in right-wing Republicans.
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SWE
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« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2017, 08:08:47 AM »

Harding parsoned Debs and signed Sheppard-Towner. As bad as he was, he's not remotely close to being comparable to these other three monsters.
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Inmate Trump
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« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2017, 08:36:08 AM »

I would say future historians will rank the bottom something like this......

Bottom 10 (sorted best to worst):

Zachary Taylor
Ulysses S. Grant
John Tyler
William Henry Harrison
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
Andrew Johnson
Warren G. Harding
Donald J. Trump
James Buchanan
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Chief Justice Keef
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« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2017, 08:39:55 AM »

He's reaching Bush levels of terrible.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2017, 10:41:13 AM »

I ask again: what has Trump done that in any way compares to lying the U.S. into war on false pretenses and having that war be a catastrophic debacle that took a decade to extricate the U.S. from and left hundreds of thousands dead and a country ruined for no reason?

How do people think Trump is worse than W? What has he done that comes close to the Iraq War in terms of its effects?
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Nhoj
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« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2017, 11:37:56 AM »

I would say future historians will rank the bottom something like this......

Bottom 10 (sorted best to worst):

Zachary Taylor
Ulysses S. Grant
John Tyler
William Henry Harrison
Millard Fillmore
Franklin Pierce
Andrew Johnson
Warren G. Harding
Donald J. Trump
James Buchanan
In what world is grant going to be in the bottom ten with historians? If anything hes on the rise within academic circles.
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Xing
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« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2017, 12:14:08 PM »

It's too soon to say for sure, but the way he's going, it's hard not to see him ending up in the bottom 5 or 10.
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