North Korea Mega Thread

[kelestian]

Wow, i've missed this incredible good article in Vox
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/9/8/16256880/north-korea-nuclear-weapons-test-containment

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While I don't necessarily disagree with the premise of this article (the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula is not happening), it annoys the hell out of me whenever I see the Iraq/Libya comparison. North Korea actually has a strong non-nuclear deterrent (the shelling of Seoul) that neither Libya or Iraq had...even if you take the nuclear threat out of the equation, thousands upon thousands of civilians would die in a second Korean War even if the South and the US were to secure a fairly quick victory. Libya is an even worse comparison, because Qaddafi was in trouble even before the US/European intervention, we only intervened in the midst of a popular revolution—something that is unlikely (at least right now) in North Korea.

Qaddafi would have won if West hadn't intervened, and probably fast.

About a non-nuclear deterrent... It's a complicated question. Some experts said that without the nukes DPRK couldn't hurt South Korea heavily enough, and death toll of civilians of Seul would be thousands of people, but less than 10000

[Kamala]

Seoul is close enough to NK for conventional artillery to pose an existential threat, nukes or no nukes.

[BudgieForce]

Even if it were only 10,000, that's still
10,000 ing dead innocent people.

[CatoMinor]

Unless NK's artillery is magically taken out all at once "10,000 or less" seems a little too optimistic.

[Reaganfan]

I think Trump's ideology dictates that he may use swift and severe force against North Korea. As mentioned before, enough kicking cans down the road.

[MasterJedi]

I think Trump's ideology dictates that he may use swift and severe force against North Korea. As mentioned before, enough kicking cans down the road.

You should go fight in the glorious war....oh wait!

[Brittain33]

I think Trump's ideology dictates that he may use swift and severe force against North Korea. As mentioned before, enough kicking cans down the road.

Easy for you to say, no one cares enough to nuke Ohio.

[Santander]

I think Trump's ideology dictates that he may use swift and severe force against North Korea. As mentioned before, enough kicking cans down the road.

Easy for you to say, no one cares enough to nuke Ohio.

Hey, I like Ohio.

[King Lear]

North Korea is no threat to the United States none of these so called ‘ICBMs’ have successfuly reentered the atmosphere and there’s no evidence they can minuturize a nuclear warhead. If it was up to me we would pull out of South Korea and let them defend themselves. It’s to bad the news media likes to exaggerate threats from third world countries like Iran and North Korea in order to give war mongers ammunition for their reckless military adventures,

[KingSweden]

I’m wayyyyy more worried about NK and it’s Chinese patron than I am Iran.

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

I’m wayyyyy more worried about NK and it’s Chinese patron than I am Iran.

Obviously, Iran hasn't really threatened to nuke the US or US territories.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

North Korea is no threat to the United States none of these so called ‘ICBMs’ have successfully reentered the atmosphere and there’s no evidence they can miniaturize a nuclear warhead. If it was up to me we would pull out of South Korea and let them defend themselves. It’s too bad the news media likes to exaggerate threats from third world countries like Iran and North Korea in order to give warmongers ammunition for their reckless military adventures,

They will get there within 6 months to a year according to the latest media reporting on the IC analysis of this. Also, they are ICBMs, not "so called". Please feel free to watch NASIC's recreation demo of the most recent launch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3gZWkLRN-c

The media should do its job and is doing so. The threats from NK and Iran are real, Iran has been tamed via the JCPOA but has the capability to ramp things up even more if it wanted to.

The media and the hawks in the government and think tanks have been "warning" about Iranian nukes in 18 months since the 90s.

[Dr. Arch]

I think Trump's ideology dictates that he may use swift and severe force against North Korea. As mentioned before, enough kicking cans down the road.

Easy for you to say, no one cares enough to nuke Ohio.

LMAO

[King Lear]

I don’t understand why America can’t learn to live with nuclear proliferation. There has been much less global violence since the invention of nuclear weapons. We are currently living in the most peaceful time in human history and nuclear weapons are largely to thank for that. If you think I’m nuts just look at the India-Pakistan conflict, before both countries got nuclear weapons they would fight each other in massive ground wars every decade resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands. Now both countries are developing a peaceful respectful relationship and future generations won’t Evan remember those bloody wars. The only way to achieve world peace is for every normal functioning government to acquire nuclear weapons. This would also discourage the America from attacking third world countries by providing a more Evan playing field.

[King Lear]

And before everyone calls me a crazy troll research professors Kenneth waltz and John mearshiemer they both were prominent foreign policy experts who advocated this viewpoint.

[emailking]

These kinds of statements from you make me think that you are either a kid or maybe low twenties and not to be taken seriously. At this point, you are a troll and nothing more. If you add substantive commentary and not BS, I (and Atlas) will take you seriously. Until then, research your issues more or feel free to can it.

I've seen you say this twice now, but he doesn't appear to be trolling. He makes a good point, and you have a good counter point, but it doesn't mean he was a troll to state it.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/07/north-korea-ready-direct-talks-us-sergei-lavrov

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Russia gets to position itself as the sane voice of reason. Another payday from their investment in Traitor Trump.

[adrac]

For those of you who still need convincing how terrible even the most limited nuclear exchange would be:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/this-is-how-nuclear-war-with-north-korea-would-unfold/2017/12/08/4e298a28-db07-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.afa6ab6663fd

[GeorgiaModerate]

For those of you who still need convincing how terrible even the most limited nuclear exchange would be:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/this-is-how-nuclear-war-with-north-korea-would-unfold/2017/12/08/4e298a28-db07-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.afa6ab6663fd

Thanks for posting.  A fascinating and frightening read.

[Beet]

Well, the Russians are the voice of reason here.

[King Lear]

I find it amazing that people like to brag about how are military would crush them but at The same time are trying to get us scared of their ICBMs that can’t reenter the atmosphere. North Korea is a small third world dictatorship that makes big threats but can’t back them up with anything credible, they are absolutely no threat to the United States. If America attacks them I would consider it a war crime carried out by the the United States against a impoverished country that can’t defend itself, just like what we did to Iraq in 2003 and what isreal and our homegrown white evangelical extremists are pressuring us to do to Iran.

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

There's a line in the show "Last Resort" (one season, ABC) that you have to make them think "You're just crazy enough (that you might launch nukes)".  This is what Trump is doing, essentially.  And really, the opinion from the left just helps his strategy because lil' Kim over there has to be thinking daily about if Trump is a crazy enough SOB to launch at them.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

There's a line in the show "Last Resort" (one season, ABC) that you have to make them think "You're just crazy enough (that you might launch nukes)".  This is what Trump is doing, essentially.  And really, the opinion from the left just helps his strategy because lil' Kim over there has to be thinking daily about if Trump is a crazy enough SOB to launch at them.

So just like Trump, you'd set national strategic nuclear policy based on what you saw on TV?

[Rules for me, but not for thee]

There's a line in the show "Last Resort" (one season, ABC) that you have to make them think "You're just crazy enough (that you might launch nukes)".  This is what Trump is doing, essentially.  And really, the opinion from the left just helps his strategy because lil' Kim over there has to be thinking daily about if Trump is a crazy enough SOB to launch at them.

So just like Trump, you'd set national strategic nuclear policy based on what you saw on TV?

Just trying to show some insight to a thought process.  This is basic human nature: if you make yourself seem crazier than the other guy; they are less likely to mess with you.

[SteveRogers]

There's a line in the show "Last Resort" (one season, ABC) that you have to make them think "You're just crazy enough (that you might launch nukes)".  This is what Trump is doing, essentially.  And really, the opinion from the left just helps his strategy because lil' Kim over there has to be thinking daily about if Trump is a crazy enough SOB to launch at them.

I sure hope Trump isn’t cribbing foreign policy strategy from Last Resort...

*For those who didn’t see Last Resort (everyone): While Daveav is comparing Trump to Andre Braugher’s submarine captain character, suffice to say the more obvious comparison would be to the insane President who in the pilot episode randomly nukes Pakistan for no reason other than to basically #MAGA.