North Korea Mega Thread

[Cory]

FIFY.  This is what happens when we stop teaching history.

That's a complete false equivalency. The economies of Russia and Austria-Hungary weren't interdependent and there would be no land route to back-stab Serbia. Also Serbia was more useful to Russia as it provided a "flanking" position against Austria, forcing them to split their armies in a general war.

Not to mention that Russia was also allies with France which would force Germany (the real threat to Russia) to fight on two fronts should it come to war. China has no such "France" to back them up (if you will).

This is what happens when people like you think you're being witty when you really have no idea what you're talking about.

Has it ever occurred to you that China might see this in a different light? That perhaps they could see it as a chance to deal a body-blow to a weakened and incompetently-led United States, establishing themselves as the rising global power heading into the 21st Century? (And claim to be on the right side of international law while doing it.)

No, because that's retarded. It would collapse their economy, not to mention they are utterly dependent on imports for resources (no, America needing imports of consumer goods to keep prices down isn't the same) and their sea trade would be cut off more or less instantly by American naval supremacy. So basically if that was their intention it would backfire horribly and wreck the progress they've made since the 1970's.

Step back and think about what you're saying here. You're arguing that China would never go to war with the US because war between heavily-armed nuclear states in unthinkable, when the casus belli for such a conflict would be the US going to war against a heavily armed nuclear state (even if it is a backwards one).

Yeah, no. Going to war with North Korea which has maybe a dozen or so low-yield nukes that might not even be shaped or miniaturized isn't "just like" going to war with a country with hundreds of advanced hydrogen bombs and sophisticated delivery systems including SLBM's for second-strike capacity.

If nothing else, a war against North Korea would practically be begging the Chinese to deniably nuke a couple of navy or army groups  and say the North Koreans did it.

That's just imbecilic. Really you should just see your way out of the thread now, thanks.







 

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

http://thebulletin.org/north-korea%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Cnot-quite%E2%80%9D-icbm-can%E2%80%99t-hit-lower-48-states11012

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Once again, we find that mainstream US media have enabled and empowered Trump and his insanity, even while criticizing him.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

If what you're saying is true, then Trump is Dr. Strangelove levels of hawkishness. There has been no nuclear war in 72 years, and he gets in and in this case, starts one in less than a year. Of course jfern and half the people who were hysterical about bombing Syria have nothing to say. They were worried about Hillary Clinton starting wars.

Hillary once said that Trump was too friendly with North Korea. I guess he took her advice and became more of a hawk.

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-too-friendly-north-korea-465617

[J. J.]

Kim is bluffing, at this point, about the continental US. 

First, North Korea threatened the US mainland.  Then, the next day, they change that to Guam, the closest US possession to  North Korea.  They wouldn't change that if they could strike the continental US.

Beyond that, North Korea can at least hit Guam with conventional weapons, at least.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Kim is bluffing, at this point, about the continental US. 

First, North Korea threatened the US mainland.  Then, the next day, they change that to Guam, the closest US possession to  North Korea.  They wouldn't change that if they could strike the continental US.

Beyond that, North Korea can at least hit Guam with conventional weapons, at least.

Guam is a small island.  Since we have no idea what area the Norks were targeting with their previous tests, we have no idea how accurate their systems are, and they likely are worried about that too. So a test firing at Guamanian waters compared to offshore the US mainland has the dual advantage of minimizing the chance of hitting something by accident and since wherever it lands likely gets heavy press coverage, the Norks get an idea of how accurately they aimed it.

[HisGrace]

If what you're saying is true, then Trump is Dr. Strangelove levels of hawkishness. There has been no nuclear war in 72 years, and he gets in and in this case, starts one in less than a year. Of course jfern and half the people who were hysterical about bombing Syria have nothing to say. They were worried about Hillary Clinton starting wars.

Hillary once said that Trump was too friendly with North Korea. I guess he took her advice and became more of a hawk.

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-too-friendly-north-korea-465617

Don't see in the article where she said "Nuke North Korea".

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Kim reviews Guam strike plan as Mattis issues stark warning
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/14/politics/mattis-north-korea-guam-game-on/index.html

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I recommend reading the whole thing.

[Cory]

So I guess North Korea is backing down, for now at least.

http://www.france24.com/en/20170815-north-korea-leader-kim-jong-un-briefed-guam-strike-plan-trump-usa

North Korea’s leader has delayed a decision on firing missiles towards Guam while he watches U.S. actions a little longer, the North’s state media said on Tuesday, as South Korea’s president said Seoul would seek to prevent war by all means.

Signs of easings in tension on the Korean peninsula helped stock markets rally for a second day running even as the United States and South Korea prepared for more joint military drills and experts warned North Korea could still proceed with its provocative plan.

In his first public appearance in about two weeks, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un inspected the command of the North’s army on Monday, examining a plan to fire four missiles to land near the U.S. Pacific territory of Guam, the official KCNA said in a report.

[krazen1211]

Kim doesn't want to mess with Trump!

[TheSaint250]

Of course he choked. We've gone to the brink of war before only to see the North Koreans back down from their threats

[Daniel909012]

A clear victory for trump, let's face it, he achieved more than obama in 8 years, fire is attacked with fire and fury

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

A clear victory for trump, let's face it, he achieved more than obama in 8 years, fire is attacked with fire and fury

Yeah, sure.

Next, you'll tell me that Trump is going to save us from Obama's evil plan to blot out the Sun next week.

[HisGrace]

NK has been threatening crazy sh*t for years and never done any of it. The only reason this escalated into a crisis is because Trump ran his mouth like an idiot.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Lol people, it was evident North Korea was not really going to launch first.

[Crumpets]

What rotten luck for Trump. He could have spent all day parading around how he got North Korea to back down, and some jerk had to go spout off false equivalencies between neo-Nazis and anti-Nazi Americans and steal the news cycle out from under him!

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Donald J. Trump‏ Verified account @realDonaldTrump  28 minutes ago
 Kim Jong Un of North Korea made a very wise and well reasoned decision. The alternative would have been both catastrophic and unacceptable!

It's nice that at least one of the nations involved in this manufactured crisis has a leader capable of making wise and well-reasoned decisions.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Of course he choked. We've gone to the brink of war before only to see the North Koreans back down from their threats

This has happened every 2-4 years since the early 90s. The only difference this time was the puffery and bombastic rhetoric of the U.S. president.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Good article on recent developments and discussion of a potential for preventative war. The Ulchi-Freedom Guardian (UFG) drills kick off today and last until 31 August.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/20/world/asia/north-korea-war-trump.html

"Preventative war".

Do you mean like when fascist Imperial Japanese attack Pearl Harbor to defend themselves?
Or maybe like Operation Barbarossa, when the Nazi fascists attacked the Soviet Union in order to prevent the Soviets from hanging onto their lands and lives?

Great company you want to keep there.

[anvi]

Seems like little more than a big war of words at the moment.  North Korea doesn't have real strike capability at the moment, and the military hardware in the region now suggests the U.S. had done nothing to alter its basic defensive stance.  Short of military options, I'm not sure any diplomatic efforts will prevent North Korea from acquiring strike capability at some point down the road.  Though China's UN vote in favour of sanctions was unprecedented and a show of their level of frustration with Kim, I think the Trump administration should not expect too much in the way of Chinese help.  First, Kim, despite continuing to receive massive foreign aid from China, does not listen to him and actively pursues political sympathisers of China in his country.  Second, in case of a crisis, China has no desire to deal with a huge refugee influx from North Korea.  Third, China does not want to be completely surrounded by pro-American states, in spite of its unhappiness with Kim.  On the nuclear front, North Korea has always taken calculated risks; they want to use these things for leverage--if the regime's goal is survival, actual use of the weapons is out of the question.  I am more worried about North Korea launching conventional assaults on South Korea. 

[Beet]

On the nuclear front, North Korea has always taken calculated risks; they want to use these things for leverage--if the regime's goal is survival, actual use of the weapons is out of the question.  I am more worried about North Korea launching conventional assaults on South Korea. 

Yeah, I agree with this. South Korea is the country really threatened by North Korea. Everything that they do, including all their interactions with the U.S., revolve around trying to improve their position vis-a-vis South Korea. The fundamental issue is North Korea vs. South Korea.

When Truman sent U.S. troops to Korea in 1950, it was based on the now-discredited domino theory. There was the idea that if Korea fell to communism, next would be Japan, and so on. Today it's just two states jostling for position on the Korean peninsula. North Korea's weapons programs at the end of the day won't let them dominate South Korea, since the latter's conventional weapons are far greater, can call up greater manpower, and could nuclearize at any time.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://warisboring.com/the-u-s-navys-greatest-enemy-might-be-exhaustion/

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[NewYorkExpress]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-southkorea-bombers-idUSKCN1B40MP

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Interesting move by Putin...what could it mean?

[GlobeSoc]

The North just fired an unidentified missile, breaking on CNN.

Is it happening?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2017/08/26/0200000000AEN20170826000651315.html

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[GeorgiaModerate]

US Pacific Command says there were three launches.  The 1st and 3rd failed in flight, while the 2nd blew up immediately after launch.