Should the US cease all diplomatic relations with Venezuela?
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  Should the US cease all diplomatic relations with Venezuela?
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Question: Should the US cease all diplomatic relations with Venezuela?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Total Voters: 65

Author Topic: Should the US cease all diplomatic relations with Venezuela?  (Read 1789 times)
they don't love you like i love you
BRTD
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« on: August 05, 2017, 11:30:25 PM »

Yes.
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2017, 11:31:43 PM »

Yes, once we've safely evacuated all personnel. They're a brutal dictatorship with an unstable leader who could very easily cause things to devolve into a similar situation to Iran.
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2017, 12:41:28 PM »

Yes, and impose sanctions on that regime. Maduro is horrible. But we should strongly cooperate with other nations of South America to keep the pressure high. I'm glad that they expelled Venezuela from Mercosur.

I hope Maduro is voted out of office in the 2018 election. If there is an election in 2018.
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JA
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2017, 12:47:26 PM »

Absolutely not
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Crumpets
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2017, 12:56:33 PM »

No. The US has maintained diplomatic relations with Yemen and South Sudan throughout their civil wars, and despite their governments being much less democratic than Venezuela. Diplomatic ties serve more functions than just making sure passports are in order, and we shouldn't just go cutting them willy-nilly whenever a government we don't like is facing a period of instability.

That being said, I do think the embassy should be evacuated of all non-essential personnel, and potentially even temporarily relocated until things cool down a bit.
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2017, 01:11:25 PM »

We shouldn't cease all diplomatic relations but probably pull out almost all or all of US personnel
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#gravelgang #lessiglad
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2017, 01:50:12 PM »

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Torie
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2017, 02:20:00 PM »

What would this accomplish exactly?
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The Mikado
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2017, 02:30:04 PM »

What would this accomplish exactly?

I think BRTD is concerned about the safety of our embassy in the middle of a brewing civil war, which makes a lot of sense. I think that pulling our embassy out of Caracas is a very good idea at the moment.
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pbrower2a
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2017, 02:38:38 PM »
« Edited: August 06, 2017, 09:18:55 PM by pbrower2a »

Brutal dictatorship? We have dealings with the Saudi Arabia and the People's Republic of China. We have had relations with the Soviet Union. We had diplomatic relations with the Japanese Empire until December 7, 1941 and with the Kingdom of Satan (Nazi Germany) until December 10, 1941. We had diplomatic relations with Satan Hussein until he invaded Kuwait. Don't forget relations with Trujillo, Duvalier, and Ceausescu... and Leopold II, King of the Belgians (and ruler of a personal fief made infamous in Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness.  
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JA
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2017, 02:48:20 PM »

Yes, and impose sanctions on that regime. Maduro is horrible. But we should strongly cooperate with other nations of South America to keep the pressure high. I'm glad that they expelled Venezuela from Mercosur.

Unlike the unelected President of Brazil with 5% approval, was caught on audio engaging in bribery, his people caught on video with briefcase of bribery money, indicted by the Brazilian Supreme Court for bribery, has a Congress where over 200 members were being investigated for bribery and corruption, and yet they voted to keep him in office and protect him from indictment? Or the deeply unpopular Colombian President, who is heralded here as a great man, but widely disliked in Colombia? Yet, Maduro, despite his numerous severe faults, still retains relative popularity, has faced meddling by foreign financial interests, businesses conspiring to stifle labor to cause shortages, and a rightwing attempting to seize power over all branches of the government and whose foot soldiers are the most frequent causes of death among protesters, is the big problem here?

Venezuelans deserve better than Maduro. The majority still want the Bolivarian Revolution to proceed, with support for Chavez and his ideals still dominant. So, the Western calls for change in Venezuelan to reorient it back to control by the wealthy Venezuelan elite under the guise of "liberal democracy" is appalling. Those who still want the Bolivarian Revolution must work in parallel with Maduro's government and, eventually, supersede it.
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Strudelcutie4427
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2017, 03:43:28 PM »

Yes. Stand with the people and tell Maduro to shove his "Socialism of the 21st Century" up his rear end
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2017, 03:50:08 PM »

No. We should give Maduro's gang as few opportunities as possible to blame us for their mess.
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BRTD
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2017, 04:00:49 PM »

Yes, and impose sanctions on that regime. Maduro is horrible. But we should strongly cooperate with other nations of South America to keep the pressure high. I'm glad that they expelled Venezuela from Mercosur.

Unlike the unelected President of Brazil with 5% approval, was caught on audio engaging in bribery, his people caught on video with briefcase of bribery money, indicted by the Brazilian Supreme Court for bribery, has a Congress where over 200 members were being investigated for bribery and corruption, and yet they voted to keep him in office and protect him from indictment? Or the deeply unpopular Colombian President, who is heralded here as a great man, but widely disliked in Colombia? Yet, Maduro, despite his numerous severe faults, still retains relative popularity, has faced meddling by foreign financial interests, businesses conspiring to stifle labor to cause shortages, and a rightwing attempting to seize power over all branches of the government and whose foot soldiers are the most frequent causes of death among protesters, is the big problem here?

Venezuelans deserve better than Maduro. The majority still want the Bolivarian Revolution to proceed, with support for Chavez and his ideals still dominant. So, the Western calls for change in Venezuelan to reorient it back to control by the wealthy Venezuelan elite under the guise of "liberal democracy" is appalling. Those who still want the Bolivarian Revolution must work in parallel with Maduro's government and, eventually, supersede it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_parliamentary_election,_2015

Also I would argue that someone who is literally having opposition leaders arrested, had a member of his government ousted just for speaking out against him, and is having any insitutition not in his back pocket stripped of power and replacing it with new sham institutions is in fact yes, a big problem.
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Coraxion
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2017, 04:20:27 PM »

No. We hold diplomatic relations with far "worse" countries. And besides, how other countries choose to govern themselves is none of our business.
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SATW
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2017, 08:12:50 PM »
« Edited: August 06, 2017, 08:14:29 PM by SunriseAroundTheWorld »

We should most certainly impose significantly tougher sanctions. We should also continue freezing the U.S. assets of allies of the Maduro Regime.

We should also started kicking out allies of that regime that have found their way to South Florida. There are quite a few of those thugs chilling down there. I am not ready yet to support ending all diplomatic relations, but I do strongly want OAS suspend Venezuela's membership.

We should consider different ways to help countries like Colombia, Brazil and Argentina alleviate the costs of taking in so many Venezuelan refugees.

Mauricio Macri wants to launch a "Marshall Plan" for Argentina, which made me think that supporting a U.S.-Argentina-Colombia backed Marshall Plan for South America would be a good idea as well.

Economic struggles is what led to the election of left-wing disasters like Chavez/Maduro in the first place. Providing a South American Marshall Plan could be very beneficial to regional stability and American interests.

The dangers of not acting are grave. We need to continue our strong approach against this illegitimate regime.
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2017, 08:29:07 PM »

My reasoning for not ending relations w/ Venezuela yet:

1. For those running nonprofit efforts aimed at helping the poor and needy. If we end relations w/ Venezuela atm it will be very difficult to help those innocent people and for those nonprofits and individuals who are trying to oppose Maduro through peaceful, charitable means.

2. If we end relations right now, without consulting OAS or Argentina, who has been America's partner on opposing Maduro, it will put them in a very difficult spot. Most of our allies have not yet broken ranks w/ Venezuela. (Peru, however, seems to be very close to doing so.)

3. It will be difficult for U.S. leaders like Marco Rubio and Bob Menendez to reach out to the supporters of MUD and other Opposition forces if we end relations. Venezuela could move to block American media access to the country if ranks are broken. Rubio recently spoke on a Venezuelan channel to show support for the people of the country and to bash Maduro.

We can be more effective in countering, opposing and weakening the Maduro Regime by doing all of the things I listed in my post above.

I also support providing aid to the opposition, like John Bolton has suggested.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2017, 08:33:20 PM »

Uh, Maduro is one of the good guys.
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2017, 08:34:28 PM »


Uh, no he isn't. I'm not sure what is so "good" about dictators who are oppressing their own people.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2017, 08:35:18 PM »

Uh, no he isn't. I'm not sure what is so "good" about dictators who are oppressing their own people.

You mean like Trump and the Bush crime family?
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2017, 08:39:16 PM »

Uh, no he isn't. I'm not sure what is so "good" about dictators who are oppressing their own people.

You mean like Trump and the Bush crime family?

You know what this comment reminds me of? A video I watched of British journalists interviewing ex-Stasi members. They asked the ex-Stasi members if they regret any of their disgusting actions. The two men responded by saying no and by accusing Americans and Brits of being war criminals.

How's it feel to be on the same logic train as ex-Stasi members? There is nothing good about a dictatorship ripping apart a country that was once the gem of South America.

The Chavez-Maduro legacy will be one of heartbreak, destruction, autocracy and terror.
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Bandit3 the Worker
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« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2017, 08:41:15 PM »

The Chavez-Maduro legacy will be one of heartbreak, destruction, autocracy and terror.

I think you've got that confused with the Reagan/Bush/Gingrich/Trump legacy.
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2017, 08:49:19 PM »

The Chavez-Maduro legacy will be one of heartbreak, destruction, autocracy and terror.

I think you've got that confused with the Reagan/Bush/Gingrich/Trump legacy.

There is literally no comparison to be made between Bolivarian Authoritarianism and Republican Politics.

You are derailing this topic by making non-existent comparisons that are also wildly inappropriate.
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Bandit3 the Worker
Populist3
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« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2017, 08:50:13 PM »

There is literally no comparison to be made between Bolivarian Authoritarianism and Republican Politics.

I know. The Republicans are WORSE!
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SATW
SunriseAroundTheWorld
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« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2017, 08:51:11 PM »

There is literally no comparison to be made between Bolivarian Authoritarianism and Republican Politics.

I know. The Republicans are WORSE!

Goodbye troll.
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