Abortion

[Brambila]

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Stealing is economically just?

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If it's a legal error,  a price must be paid.

[12th Doctor]

*licks lips*

Your sick.  I'm am going ot report you to Dave.

[migrendel]

If the receptive party in the theft is impoverished, and the crime is rationally related to the maintenance of general well-being, I do not believe prosecution is legitimate.

[12th Doctor]

*licks lips*

Your sick.  I'm am going ot report you to Dave.

I just reported you, so I'd knock this crap off if I were you.

[migrendel]

The theft of small goods is clearly a malum prohibitum crime, and if justified by exigent circumstances, it is celarly pointless to prosecute a minor regulatory infraction.

[CTguy]

So what is it you anti-abortion activists want?  You want abortion defined as murder... and you guys probably support the death penalty...  

so do you support the death penalty for people who have abortions?  Since it is "murder"

[12th Doctor]

So what is it you anti-abortion activists want?  You want abortion defined as murder... and you guys probably support the death penalty...  

so do you support the death penalty for people who have abortions?  Since it is "murder"

I don't want it legally defined as murder in the way that acctual murder is defined.  I just want it to be recongnized that the fetus is a human being entitled to rights.  If a mother has an abortion that is not related to rape, incest or her health, I think that she should be sent to counciling as for many women, just having one is emotional punishment enough.  I think abotrtion doctors should loose there lisence to practice if they don't meet these guide lines.

Unlike a lot of people, I want to put my money where my mouth is.  I do belive that we should have a social net availible to women who want the help.

I also, believe that we cannot have an end to abortion until we change the culture into a culture that respects life, or else there will be a backlash that will hurt society even worse.  I believe in a society that promotes life.  I ONLY support the death penalty for the most extreme criminals.  Although I do think that if we catch guys who run drug cartels, they should get the death penalty due to the number of lives they have ruined with their trade.  Pablo Escabar(sp) is the type of guy I mean here, not small time dealers.

I believe in parental notification and think that we should enact that now, unless of course there is an abuse problem in the family.  I believe that if you kill a pregnant woman, it should be considered a double murder.  If we do those things, then we can work up to a culture that values life enough to see the wrongs of abortion.

There is a treand toward this.  American Indians used to not be considered people with rights.  Nor were blacks, but that has changed.  Eventually, I believe that we can advance to a point where abortion will be as frowned apon as the idea of sending Indians blankets infected with small pox.

[MarkDel]

No, but it was about the Department of Defense.

Hey, Mark, I aked Kozak if he had ever writen a book on the Defense Deptartment.  he said he had.  It must be him.  I just read your thing about James MacPherson (I missed it before)  THat's awesome.

Supersoulty,

Then it's gotta be him. Unless I missed the point of the book, he's pretty damn right wing!!!

As for McPherson, that guy is awesome. I recommend reading his book "Odeal by Fire" if you are a Civil War nut.

[12th Doctor]

No, but it was about the Department of Defense.

Hey, Mark, I aked Kozak if he had ever writen a book on the Defense Deptartment.  he said he had.  It must be him.  I just read your thing about James MacPherson (I missed it before)  THat's awesome.

Supersoulty,

Then it's gotta be him. Unless I missed the point of the book, he's pretty damn right wing!!!

As for McPherson, that guy is awesome. I recommend reading his book "Odeal by Fire" if you are a Civil War nut.

He is very right wing on defense issues.  He is moderate on most else.  Not liberal on anything.  He dislikes Clinton and I don't think he is a fan of Kerry either.

I've read some of McPherson's work.  I can't remember what, but I will take the suggestion.  Thanks.

[Brambila]

CTguy- I'm against the death penalty. It should be rare if not nonexistent.

Supersoulty- abortion should be regarded as murder. It's interesting becuase cases like Lacy Peterson, Scott Peterson is being charged with TWO murders, but only because the unborn child was wanted. If it was unwanted, Scott wouldn't be charged with two murders, but one. Of course abortion should be regarded as murder, that's what it is. Though I do not believe the woman should be punished the most (the doctor should), the woman should definately be prosecuted.

Also, this country already respects life, with 70% of Americans being pro-life in 95% of the cases abortion is done in (in other words, except for rape, incest, or threat to the mother's life).

[Gustaf]

CTguy- I'm against the death penalty. It should be rare if not nonexistent.

Supersoulty- abortion should be regarded as murder. It's interesting becuase cases like Lacy Peterson, Scott Peterson is being charged with TWO murders, but only because the unborn child was wanted. If it was unwanted, Scott wouldn't be charged with two murders, but one. Of course abortion should be regarded as murder, that's what it is. Though I do not believe the woman should be punished the most (the doctor should), the woman should definately be prosecuted.

Also, this country already respects life, with 70% of Americans being pro-life in 95% of the cases abortion is done in (in other words, except for rape, incest, or threat to the mother's life).

How is it justified to be pro-life in 95% of the cases?

[CTguy]

CTguy- I'm against the death penalty. It should be rare if not nonexistent.

Supersoulty- abortion should be regarded as murder. It's interesting becuase cases like Lacy Peterson, Scott Peterson is being charged with TWO murders, but only because the unborn child was wanted. If it was unwanted, Scott wouldn't be charged with two murders, but one. Of course abortion should be regarded as murder, that's what it is. Though I do not believe the woman should be punished the most (the doctor should), the woman should definately be prosecuted.

Also, this country already respects life, with 70% of Americans being pro-life in 95% of the cases abortion is done in (in other words, except for rape, incest, or threat to the mother's life).

If 70% of Americans were pro-life they would have tried banning it in the house with more success by now...  except in those instances...  I don't believe for a second 70% of Americans want that...

But lets speak hypothetically if they did....

since you say you are opposed to the death penalty and want abortion to be illegal...

What would you put the punishment at for killing a fetus...  20 years?  30 years?  

[Brambila]

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They tried a few times, actually. Clinton vetoed them, but there were definately attempts. And illegalizing aboriton isn't easy.

For committing an abortion? The same as any murder of minors. For the mother? Not nearly as much.

[CTguy]

So what would you like to see a woman go away for for committing an abortion... 5 years?  Please remember that some people go away for 20 years in this country for stealing a candy bar (but only if they're black).

[12th Doctor]

CTguy- I'm against the death penalty. It should be rare if not nonexistent.

Supersoulty- abortion should be regarded as murder. It's interesting becuase cases like Lacy Peterson, Scott Peterson is being charged with TWO murders, but only because the unborn child was wanted. If it was unwanted, Scott wouldn't be charged with two murders, but one. Of course abortion should be regarded as murder, that's what it is. Though I do not believe the woman should be punished the most (the doctor should), the woman should definately be prosecuted.

Also, this country already respects life, with 70% of Americans being pro-life in 95% of the cases abortion is done in (in other words, except for rape, incest, or threat to the mother's life).

The was the trust of my post.  It is murder, but I don't think it should be treated the same way leagally.  That was the point of my argueement.  The woman needs therapy, the doctor should loose his lisence to practice or even take jail time.

[afleitch]

In the UK a recent poll put support of abortion at around 70%, rising to 85% when rape/incest/danger are taken into account. Not important I know, but I found it interesting to compare with the USA. In the UK, abortion is a 'non-issue' politically I guess.

[CTguy]

CTguy- I'm against the death penalty. It should be rare if not nonexistent.

Supersoulty- abortion should be regarded as murder. It's interesting becuase cases like Lacy Peterson, Scott Peterson is being charged with TWO murders, but only because the unborn child was wanted. If it was unwanted, Scott wouldn't be charged with two murders, but one. Of course abortion should be regarded as murder, that's what it is. Though I do not believe the woman should be punished the most (the doctor should), the woman should definately be prosecuted.

Also, this country already respects life, with 70% of Americans being pro-life in 95% of the cases abortion is done in (in other words, except for rape, incest, or threat to the mother's life).

The was the trust of my post.  It is murder, but I don't think it should be treated the same way leagally.  That was the point of my argueement.  The woman needs therapy, the doctor should loose his lisence to practice or even take jail time.

If abortion is murder, how is it ANY different at all from someone who murders a baby right after it's born or Scott Peterson killing the almost born baby and now facing double murder charges...

Again, anyone?  How long should a mother get for "murdering" the fetus?

[JohnFKennedy]

UK politics is further to the left than American politics in my opinion.

[CTguy]

UK politics is further to the left than American politics in my opinion.

Yes it is, abortion isn't even a debate in the UK...  It will be like that in America but it will take another 20 years...  theory of co-evolness and all...

I just realized something.  I am the only democrat on this forum that is actually from the United States... scary.

[afleitch]

That is true, as is most of Europe. It's not just politically its in social attitudes too. I'm studying US Politics here in the UK and we a half dozen or so American students, 2 of which are so right wing and out of place it's scary! No disrespect to them, I am good friends with them, but it really does highlight the cultural/moral differences.

[JohnFKennedy]

That is true, as is most of Europe. It's not just politically its in social attitudes too. I'm studying US Politics here in the UK and we a half dozen or so American students, 2 of which are so right wing and out of place it's scary! No disrespect to them, I am good friends with them, but it really does highlight the cultural/moral differences.

where are you at Uni?

[afleitch]

Strathclyde University in Glasgow.

[JohnFKennedy]

Strathclyde University in Glasgow.

cool, you scottish?

[afleitch]

Yes! Born and bred!

[JohnFKennedy]

Yes! Born and bred!

ah, scottish politics is even more left than UK politics in general, only 1 tory MP for scotland, I forget his name at the moment though. I am a Londoner although my grandparents currently reside in Edinburgh.