Hill: Rising Dem star Tim Ryan splits with party, endorses corporate tax cuts

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Pelosi is terrible and I supported her over him. Enough said.

[publicunofficial]

The House GOP gets a lot of flack for being a mix incompetent crazy people, undiagnosed psychopaths and sleepy old white guys, but the House Democratic caucus is an underrated dumpster fire.

There are like, 5, likeable people among them and the rest are either laughably corrupt machine products or dorky technocrats who would never be willing to do anything that would make someone angry at the next local Chamber of Commerce meeting.

I think you over exaggerate how bad the Democratic caucus is. I can name 5 likable Democrats from my state alone. I refuse to believe only 2% of Democratic congressman are both non-corrupt or non-technocrats.

I can name a lot of Democrats I have no strong feelings for one way or the other. That's not the same as likeable.

[publicunofficial]

The House GOP gets a lot of flack for being a mix incompetent crazy people, undiagnosed psychopaths and sleepy old white guys, but the House Democratic caucus is an underrated dumpster fire.

There are like, 5, likeable people among them and the rest are either laughably corrupt machine products or dorky technocrats who would never be willing to do anything that would make someone angry at the next local Chamber of Commerce meeting.

Please, name these 5. I need a good laugh...

Barbara Lee
Ruben Gallego
Keith Ellison
Beto O'Rourke
Pete DeFazio
Rick Nolan
Pramila Jayapal
Raul Grijalva
Ted Lieu

That's pretttttty much it.

[Brittain33]

I mean if we are specifically talking about cutting the corporate tax rate then he's right.

Yeah, I agree. In principle Ryan is aligning himself with a consensus that the corporate tax rate is both non-credibly high compared to rest of world and consequently mostly evaded and riddled with loopholes.

Do I trust Republicans to fix the latter while also addressing the former? Nah. But I don't think Ryan's diagnosis is the kind of business coziness that Lieberman gave a bad name.

[PragmaticPopulist]

This will undoubtedly hurt him with party activists, but the question is that is it practical. While I despise the third-wayism that has corrupted the Democratic Party, I'd be open to lowering the tax rate if there's substantial evidence that it would be good for the economy and not cause yuge income inequality. Here's an analysis by Robert Pozen from Brookings arguing that the tax rate is too high: https://www.brookings.edu/experts/robert-c-pozen/

And here's a more recent analysis from the EPI arguing against it: http://www.epi.org/publication/competitive-distractions-cutting-corporate-tax-rates-will-not-create-jobs-or-boost-incomes-for-the-vast-majority-of-american-families/#epi-toc-11

[Tintrlvr]

Jesus Christ he sure ran to the donors arms fast. He didn't even hide it well.

But wouldn't it have been great if you had replaced solid progressive Nancy Pelosi with him just to stick it to the man!

(Although, TBH, corporate tax reform is not a bad idea in and of itself; the problem is that publicly supporting it gives the Republicans cover for terrible cuts-for-the-rich tax plans.)

[Yank2133]

Any progressive who thought he should replace Pelosi should not be taking seriously again.

[heatcharger]

Jesus Christ he sure ran to the donors arms fast. He didn't even hide it well.

But wouldn't it have been great if you had replaced solid progressive Nancy Pelosi with him just to stick it to the man!

(Although, TBH, corporate tax reform is not a bad idea in and of itself; the problem is that publicly supporting it gives the Republicans cover for terrible cuts-for-the-rich tax plans.)

Yeah, and if we're serious about reigning in offshore banking practices by big corporations, this has to be part of the plan. Of course, Republicans would never agree to coupling a corporate tax slash with a creation of higher, graduated tax brackets, and plus I don't get why Tim Ryan of all people is endorsing this considering his district. We'll see if it's part of a grander scheme.

[Rjjr77]

I wonder if he should get primaried...

please do, that district would be ripe for the taking if a far left person runs

[Nhoj]

Cutting the corporate tax is just good economics, however it should be paired with a income tax increase.

[mvd10]

Tim Ryan 2020! Corporate tax rates in the US are too high imo. There also are too many loopholes but cutting the most obvious loopholes only gets you to 28% or so which still would be a fairly high rate. To really make a dent in corporate tax rates without increasing the deficit or increasing other taxes you'd need to look at things like the corporate interest deduction or border adjusting them but these measures would trigger a corporate war (and border adjusting corporate taxes likely is illegal under WTO rules).

Technically you could get around that by adopting a broad-based VAT to replace the corporate income tax and employer-side payroll taxes. In essence you would get a border-adjusted VAT with a large tax cut on wages to negate the effect of a VAT which looks a lot like the Ryan corporate tax plan (which looks a lot like a VAT with a wage deduction), and border-adjusting a "normal" VAT is perfectly legal under WTO rules. But doing that would likely hurt ordinary Americans unless it massively grows the economy (which is possible). Theoretically all the benefit of lower employer-side payroll taxes and 20-30% of the benefit of lower corporate taxes should go to households in the form of higher wages, but I'm not sure whether you can sell that to the public (let alone selling the idea that slashing/repealing the corporate income tax would help the economy).

Anyway, I do understand why some Democrats are frustrated by this. The idea of cutting corporate taxes probably doesn't match very well with an American liberal ideology.

[SATW]

FTR - he's always talked like this on business issues. I was ubering in DC a few months ago and I heard him talk on the radio on the importance of supporting the working class while also keeping a pro-business climate.

[Virginiá]

Yeah, I agree. In principle Ryan is aligning himself with a consensus that the corporate tax rate is both non-credibly high compared to rest of world and consequently mostly evaded and riddled with loopholes.

Do I trust Republicans to fix the latter while also addressing the former? Nah. But I don't think Ryan's diagnosis is the kind of business coziness that Lieberman gave a bad name.

A big part of the issue from my perspective is his alignment with what he states as a "pro-business"-centric strategy for 2018, which in itself shouldn't be that much of a problem, except that decades of Republican and Democrat use of the term has basically led many, including myself, to believe that it's just more policies that give unnecessary and harmful benefits to corporations and the rich and the expense of the little guy. Personally I wouldn't have minded it much if he had mixed it in with calls to break up huge corporations whose monopoly-like power is holding progress down, and that the wealthy have to start paying in more, especially if we cut taxes on corporations. Instead, I just get the vibe that he's taking a Republican-ish tack on economic issues.

Also I can't say I am a big fan of this "gee, let's work with corporations to create nice jobs here!" talk. It sounds innocent enough, except that corporations have long held outsized sway in Washington, and if they really cared about doing that, they would have worked to accomplish it. Instead, they have time and again showed that when it comes to profits and their shareholders, American workers come dead last, at least until their jobs can be outsourced, at which point they don't fit into their model of success anywhere. It seems obvious to me at this point that it is up to the government to advocate for workers and create an environment where corporations start actually investing in their workers and not shareholders.

[DrScholl]

This is exactly why he shouldn't be Democratic leader. Lowering corporate taxes is not going to make things better in working class areas.

[MAINEiac4434]

I wonder if he should get primaried...

Yes

[mvd10]

This is exactly why he shouldn't be Democratic leader. Lowering corporate taxes is not going to make things better in working class areas.

But is scoring with working class areas more important than helping them? You probably think that reducing corporate taxes doesn't help working class people/the economy which is a valid point (though I don't agree ), but I get the impression that a lot of people care more about the fact that it will poll badly with the people the Democrats need to win in their opinion that with the fact that Ryan is suggesting to increase the deficit by trillions to give to the people the Democrats are supposed to oppose.

Anyway, I'm not even sure whether cutting corporate taxes is that unpopular. I think you could get a decent amount of people to support a corporate tax reduction if you spin it well. But the proponents would be nearly all partisan Republicans.

[Famous Mortimer]

I could get behind a corporate tax cut if it was accompanied by an income tax increase. It is my understanding that this is the norm in most European social democracies.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I wonder if he should get primaried...

No, that'd be an awful idea.  He's objectively an excellent Congressman and always has been.

[GoTfan]

And there goes my support for him.

Grijalva for Leader!

[BuckeyeNut]

I and every other Ohio Democrat I know is very confused by this. While Clinton bombed in Mahoning County and the rest of the Valley, Ryan maintained a very healthy margin, and this move makes no sense for his district.* It might make some sense for Ohio as a whole, but it wouldn't win him friends in any primary, and he's not running state wide anytime soon. That said, Tim Ryan is not a cuck, nor is he useless. The message going around is severely truncated. He also suggested a trillion-dollar expansion for the Earned Income Tax Credits.

* RJ is right this district would fall if a Justice Democrat successfully primaried Ryan. It's a moronic idea.

[Chief Justice Keef]

Keith Ellison was always my first pick to replace Pelosi, anyway. I liked Ryan because he backed Conyers' healthcare bill but it was pretty silly for people to get hyped about him replacing Pelosi in hindsight.

[Maxwell]

I mean I actually could agree to corporate tax cuts if there was an exchange for much higher capital gains taxes.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Keith Ellison was always my first pick to replace Pelosi, anyway. I liked Ryan because he backed Conyers' healthcare bill but it was pretty silly for people to get hyped about him replacing Pelosi in hindsight.

Ellison's unfit for any sort of leadership post, to say nothing of Speaker.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

I wonder if he should get primaried...

No, that'd be an awful idea.  He's objectively an excellent Congressman and always has been.

[Shadows]

Corporate Taxes can be cut, but not to 15 or 20%. That is ridiculous. Most Western nations have it between 25 to 30%, so a small cut can be good. You can have 2 rates like China or a flat 25 or 30%. But with that, the loopholes need to be closed. No carried interest loophole. Buffet rule for both individuals & corporations (20% flat for corporations if they are earning profit beyond a certain figure (10/20/30M etc). The effective tax rate is sometimes 8 or 12% & many are at 0%. So as long as the effective tax rate is increased, a cut is totally acceptable.

And the Capital Gains tax needs to be raised as well. 35% & 25/30% is not a big number Corporate tax wise(difference wise). It has to be revenue neutral though. You can't blow up the deficit. That is the same argument which the GOP makes for smaller entitlement programs or for free college. How the f*** do you have money for huge deficit creating tax cuts?

Tim Ryan is a joke. He is trying anything & everything just to gain power.