Abortion

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I am pro-choice in the first three months, no problem, and I have my convictions about the other two trimesters.  But all abortions should be legal when concerning the health of the mother.

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I don't like abortions... but I don't see why they should be illegal...
Sorry to be glib/warped about this but the only people who would benifit would be people in the wire coat-hanger industry...

Exactly.  Banning it is not an option.

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In 1967, Great Britain decriminalized abortions in the first 22 weeks of the pregnancy.

Okay.

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I'm sure you know even many democrats were for the partial birth abortion ban.

I will re-affirm my stance I have taken on prior occassions. I believe a woman possesses the fundamental right to end her pregnancy, at all stages of fetal gestation, pursuant to Constitutional rules on liberty, equal protection, and citizenship. I believe that the government, under the same equal protection logic, is obligated to fund elective and therapeutic abortions. I believe the recently passed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act is ill-conceived, because I believe that those procedures should be legal under all circumstances, and they show an inimical bias against womankind. I think that is a fairly comprehensive overview of my view on abortion, and I suppose you all knew all of this before I wrote it down.

Dick Gephardt voted for the ban 7 times.

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good for him, many pro choice politicans are even aginst partial birth abortion.

I'm sure you know even many democrats were for the partial birth abortion ban.

I will re-affirm my stance I have taken on prior occassions. I believe a woman possesses the fundamental right to end her pregnancy, at all stages of fetal gestation, pursuant to Constitutional rules on liberty, equal protection, and citizenship. I believe that the government, under the same equal protection logic, is obligated to fund elective and therapeutic abortions. I believe the recently passed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act is ill-conceived, because I believe that those procedures should be legal under all circumstances, and they show an inimical bias against womankind. I think that is a fairly comprehensive overview of my view on abortion, and I suppose you all knew all of this before I wrote it down.

Dick Gephardt voted for the ban 7 times.

Gephardt was pro-life until about 15 years ago.

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thanks, 22 weeks, that is like 4-5 month range then, interesting.  Did th courts do it or legislative processes?

Legislative.
It began as a PMB put forward by Liberal M.P(and later leader) David Steel, and was adopted by the then Home Sec, Roy Jenkins(ironic eh?)

The parliament was able to put forth an abortion law?  It didn't have to go through the courts at all?

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Yes.
The legislature is far stronger than the courts(which can interpret law but cannot make law)

Okay.

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wow courts that don't legislate that would be great!

Yes.
The legislature is far stronger than the courts(which can interpret law but cannot make law)

Don't worry Jravnsbo, with four more years of Bush43 you will be able to push through your pro-life justices and turn the clock back on women's rights 30 years.

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Well I think Abortion should be decided in the Congress as I do not think Roe was decide on stable legal grounds.

wow courts that don't legislate that would be great!

Yes.
The legislature is far stronger than the courts(which can interpret law but cannot make law)

Don't worry Jravnsbo, with four more years of Bush43 you will be able to push through your pro-life justices and turn the clock back on women's rights 30 years.

Are you anti Roe v. wade?

[© tweed]

I think abortion should be decided by state legislatures and/or congress, not the courts.

Whatever the will of the people is, I would accept.  I am against abortion in principle but recognize that in practice it can possibly be the best of several bad options, under certain circumstances.  

It's not a black and white issue, but I think the logic behind the Roe vs. Wade decision is specious.  I don't believe we're talking about the woman's body, but a separate body growing inside of her, something that was created by a man AND a woman.

I think abortion as currently structured does not provide men with equal rights as a parent, and I think in concept that that's wrong.  A man cannot prevent a woman from aborting his child, even if he's willing to accept sole responsibility for the child.  By the same token, he can't force the mother of his child to have an abortion, even if he doesn't want the child.  But he must abide by her choice whatever it is, including paying child support.  So the  man is assigned full responsibility for whatever decisions the woman makes, but no legal standing to participate in those decisions, even within marriage.  Come to think of it, that's the ideal world as conceived by the feminists.

One sickness of our society is a heavy reliance on the legal system to fix the screw-ups we create in our personal lives.  Americans don't seem to realize that the legal system can't make everything right.  There is no substitute for responsible behavior, on the part of men and women, when it comes to activities that could result in pregnancy.  Abortion and laws to force men to pay support to the illegitimate children that they're not involved in raising are not the answers.

The wwomen bear the child and often end up raising the child, so it should be the woman's desicion, not the man's.

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I don't agree.  Conceiving a child is a joint action, and so should raising the child be.  It should be joint decision making and joint responsibility.  Plenty of men support their kids, and I don't buy into this argument that only women raise kids.  

My parents divorced when I was six and my father hardly raised me.  He didn't help with schoolwork, nothing.  which is much of the reason I didn't get an education past a high school diploma.

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Actually, there definitely is such thing as pro-choice, it's not pro-abortion at all. I've never heard anyone say that they thought that abortion is good and that there should be more abortions, that would be pro-abortion. But pro-choice people believe that this most difficult and personal of decisions should be left to a mother and her physician, and that the government should stay out.
Likewise, as you say, reversing Roe vs. Wade wouldn't stop abortions. Many states, especially the more liberal ones like New York and California, would keep abortion legal. Even if abortion was outlawed nationwide by a constitutional amendment or bill, it would still be legal in Canada and in Europe. So, rich people would be able to go to those countries to get an abortion, but poor people who couldn't afford to travel there would not be able to get one and would in many cases die or have great medical complication from having a back alley abortion.

Well said.

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While you are right that abortion would not be illegal across the board without Roe, it would be complicated. The Supreme Court would have to review criminal abortion laws of perhaps many states and compare them to their standard. Also, as Nym90 pointed out, it would essentially create a two-class system among women, with wealthy women able to travel to places where it is legal and have it safely performed, and poor women going surreptitiously to abortionists who probably purchased the lion's share of their obstetric tools at a restaraunt supply store. I don't know how a government can countenance women being butchered. I think some women need this just to keep body and soul together. I don't see, supersoulty, how we can force women to be mothers and at the same time respect feminine dignity. I believe it is thoroughly undignified to be forced to bear a child you do not desire.

Also, well said.

[© tweed]

pro-choice

choice to have sex

then choice to stop the beating heart of a child

ok pro-choice

Are you pro-choice in cases of rape or incest?

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I'm not pro-choice as that is a made up political term by the left to sound more friendly than being pro-abortion.  Being for choice sounds friendlier.  If you don't do anything no choice has to be made as it is natural to have a pregnancy.

Abortion, I'm pro-life.  Abortion can be used in my opinion to save the life of the mother as you are still saving life.  I do not believe at all women should use it for birth control.  

Rape and incest are horrible and could result in deformaties in the child which would not only hinder the woman's life but the child might not have much of a life either.  I do think abortion could be available in those instances.  

I am also for parental notification and partial birth abortion ban.  I think restrictions should be placed on it at a minimum.  These safeguards do not stop the abortion but allow the mother to be fully advised of the ramifications.  Many women regret abortions later and some become sterile because of it.  Not a decision to be made in haste.

pro-choice

choice to have sex

then choice to stop the beating heart of a child

ok pro-choice

Are you pro-choice in cases of rape or incest?

I am against parental notification.

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I oppose parental notification. I believe that it has the unhelpful effect of involving adversarial parents into a situation which could be potentially explosive. I also concur with the findings of the Florida Supreme Court that such a law violates what they term a right to privacy, by infringing upon a girl's reproductive freedom and physical autonomy.

Agreed.  Very religious, anti-abortionst families would ridicule their children if they were notified, if not taking action more severe.

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ABORTION IS WRONG! IT IS EVIL AND IT IS MURDER! ANYONE WHO SUPPORTS IT IS AN ACCOMPLICE MURDERER AND ANYONE WHO PERFORMS IT OR HAS IT DONE IS A MURDERER!

See!  Paul Hill isn't dead.

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Read my post!  I liked my post...

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Yes, you are more reasonable than PD.  But that isn't saying much, everybody is.

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What about Zaphod Beeblebrox?

Who?

[© tweed]

A charactor in The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, which was a radio comedy by Douglas Adams(who later wrote it down as a "trilogy in 5 part's")
He has two heads, three arms and an ego larger than the universe.

Okay then..

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I love the Hitchhiker's Guide! Realpolitik, have you ever played the computer game?

I feel like I'm missing something here.

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Aborts this conversation to return it to Abortion.

You wish.

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Two words.

[© tweed]

I could use more choice words, but I consider you a murderer of the human spirit, willing to crush the hopes of those in the most desparate straits. Let's face it, you're just not a nice person.

Let's face it, you're weird and immoral.

He's wierd!  Great comeback line, PD!