labor contract vs. employment contract
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 18, 2024, 03:50:19 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Economics (Moderator: Torie)
  labor contract vs. employment contract
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: labor contract vs. employment contract  (Read 1519 times)
Anzeigenhauptmeister
Hades
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,374
Israel


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: September 02, 2017, 11:01:23 AM »

When translating a question for my Wahl-O-Mat series, I came upon two wordings: labor contract and employment contract. When I looked up their definitions in a monolingual dictionary, I wasn't sure if they both have the same meaning.
Can they be used synonymously?

I also found the translations labor agreement and employment agreement. Can you substitute the words "agreement" and "contract" with each other, or is there a change in meaning?
Logged
muon2
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,800


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2017, 12:45:39 PM »

I saw the question you posed, but I wasn't sure what you meant exactly. I suspect this is a fairly specific German law. It would help if you would give an example. Then I could see how it would compare to equivalents in the US.
Logged
Anzeigenhauptmeister
Hades
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,374
Israel


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2017, 03:44:40 PM »

If you apply for a new job and the job interview has just been over, what kind of agreement do you arrange with your new employer? A labor contract or an employment contract?

In case these two agreements are different things, what is their difference?
Logged
muon2
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,800


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2017, 06:53:53 PM »

If you apply for a new job and the job interview has just been over, what kind of agreement do you arrange with your new employer? A labor contract or an employment contract?

In case these two agreements are different things, what is their difference?

If I get a job at a company that has a union contract (officially a collective bargaining agreement or CBA) then I would say I'm employed under a labor contract. The CBA will stipulate pay scales and workplace rules among other things. The contract will come up for all employees under that CBA.

If I get a salaried job that is not in a union, then it may be covered by an employment contract, especially at a private company. That contract will have my salary, benefits and term of employment under the contract. Some public sector jobs also have contracts, particularly for professional and upper management jobs. As a professor at a state university not represented by a union, I had an employment contract each year.

If I get a job in government that isn't union I may often be covered by civil service rules. These act like a contract, but are administered through a civil service board.

Many short-term or low wage positions that are not unionized are considered employment at will. There are agreed terms when the job is offered and there may be rules established by the employer, but either side can terminate the employment at any time without cause.
Logged
Anzeigenhauptmeister
Hades
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,374
Israel


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2017, 06:42:45 AM »

Oh, it's obviously good that I've asked that question. Thanks for your detailed reply!

I wanted to translate Arbeitsvertrag into English and looked it up in an online dictionary.
I got the results: employment agreement, employment contract, labor agreement and labor contract.
When I was about to find out which term would fit the most, I discovered that a labor contract and an employment contract seem to be different things in the English language. In order to learn the definitions of these wordings, I used a monolingual dictionary which defines them as follows:

labor contract [countable] American English
an agreement between a company and a LABOR UNION on pay, conditions etc
Italian journalists, in talks to renew their national labor contract, began a three-day strike.


contract of emˈployment noun (plural contracts of employment) [countable]
a formal document giving the conditions of someone’s job, how much they are paid etc
SYN TERMS OF EMPLOYMENT
Under his contract of employment, he is entitled to six months’ notice.


And the fact that one definition contains the interference of labor unions puzzled me.
I did researches on cnn.com, but they didn't made me smarter.
It seems like unions have so few power (unlike in Germany) that the American business sciences discriminate between to different agreements.

But I still don't know what's the better translation for the question asked in the Wahl-O-Mat...
Logged
muon2
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,800


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 08:27:20 AM »

From a quick googling I think your Wahl-o-Mat question relates to the use of befristeter Arbeitsvertrag. When I looked at some of the longer examples of usage at www.linguee.de, it seems that fixed-term employment contract is the best translation. The problem in translation is I think specific to the laws of the two countries. Let me give four examples of fixed-term employment contracts in the US.

1) A college student is hired to work as a lifeguard at a swimming pool for the summer. The employer offers a contract for 10 weeks including hours per week and pay. There is an assumption that the student could be hired again each following summer as long as both agree.

2) A college student is hired for a summer internship. The employer has the student sign a contract stating the pay and that the job will run for 10 weeks. After the student graduates the employer may offer the student a permanent job if one is available and the performance during the internship was satisfactory to the employer.

3) A freelance writer is hired to produce documentation for new software for a company. The writer signs a contract which includes the rate of pay and the maximum number of hours that can be spent on the project. If the company continues to have the need and funding, the company can enter into new contracts with the writer.

4) A college professor with tenure receives an employment contract for one year of services at a state university. The contract provides the salary for the year and coincides with the fiscal year of the state. Since the professor has tenure the assumption is that a new contract must be provided each year as long as the state funds the position.

From what I read online, it seems that one issue in Germany is the use of a series of fixed term employment contracts instead of a permanent position. As you can see from my examples, fixed-term contracts are not unusual in the US and a series of contracts can be the best way to manage a position that is subject to funding from a third party.
Logged
Anzeigenhauptmeister
Hades
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,374
Israel


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2017, 10:51:10 AM »

From a quick googling I think your Wahl-o-Mat question relates to the use of befristeter Arbeitsvertrag. When I looked at some of the longer examples of usage at www.linguee.de, it seems that fixed-term employment contract is the best translation. The problem in translation is I think specific to the laws of the two countries. Let me give four examples of fixed-term employment contracts in the US.

Thank you very much! I was very confused when I discovered that unions are involved in labor contracts.
Your second example is closest to what the question intended. In the original it is not limited to college student but also to those who have graduated. (But No. 4 also fits quite well.)
While the hire-and-fire policy is pretty common and perceived as standard in the US, it is bitterly despised in Europe (outside the UK). Since Schröder's Hartz reforms, however, companies can fire you after your first six months without given any reasons, plus they can offer you time-limited internships as often as they want. They've been exercising their right very rigidly, for which those companies are very often sharply criticized. They can also hire people from private agencies as often as they want since the reforms, which leads to my next question...

Do you call such work placed by private agencies subcontracted labor? And are those private agencies called temporary employment agency? And what are the slaves workers called that can be hired by companies? Agency workers, contract workers, temporary workers? Which translation is the best fit?
Logged
muon2
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,800


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 12:14:32 PM »

From a quick googling I think your Wahl-o-Mat question relates to the use of befristeter Arbeitsvertrag. When I looked at some of the longer examples of usage at www.linguee.de, it seems that fixed-term employment contract is the best translation. The problem in translation is I think specific to the laws of the two countries. Let me give four examples of fixed-term employment contracts in the US.

Thank you very much! I was very confused when I discovered that unions are involved in labor contracts.
Your second example is closest to what the question intended. In the original it is not limited to college student but also to those who have graduated. (But No. 4 also fits quite well.)
While the hire-and-fire policy is pretty common and perceived as standard in the US, it is bitterly despised in Europe (outside the UK). Since Schröder's Hartz reforms, however, companies can fire you after your first six months without given any reasons, plus they can offer you time-limited internships as often as they want. They've been exercising their right very rigidly, for which those companies are very often sharply criticized. They can also hire people from private agencies as often as they want since the reforms, which leads to my next question...

Do you call such work placed by private agencies subcontracted labor? And are those private agencies called temporary employment agency? And what are the slaves workers called that can be hired by companies? Agency workers, contract workers, temporary workers? Which translation is the best fit?

The companies are called employment agencies. Many if not most will place workers in both permanent as well as temporary positions depending on the need of the companies that contract with the employment agency. If the worker is filling a temporary job, they are colloquially called temp workers or temp labor.
 
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.041 seconds with 11 queries.