BREAKING: Catalonia Declares Independence

[Helsinkian]

Couldn't the Generalitat have organized this referendum simultaneously with the next Catalan regional election? In that case it would have been more difficult for Madrid to physically stop the voting from taking place.

[Helsinkian]

It seems that around 70 percent of polling stations are still open, Catalan government says.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Obviously federal police destroying schools will convince those Catalans that they don't need independence.

[Former President tack50]

Couldn't the Generalitat have organized this referendum simultaneously with the next Catalan regional election? In that case it would have been more difficult for Madrid to physically stop the voting from taking place.

In theory yeah, that was actually a possibility discussed, but I think they went against it in the end. I mean, just imagine the sh**tshow if the pro-independence side loses its majority while at the same time "yes" wins (unionists still won't vote)

[Former President tack50]

Obviously federal police destroying schools will convince those Catalans that they don't need independence.

I agree. Personally I think it should have been handled like 2014. Just allow the Catalan people to vote, say it's illegal and that's it.

My only theory as for why the government is asking this way is because there's some people asking for a harsher response. Yesterday there were many unionist protests all around Spain, and one of the slogans you could read on the signs was "Mr Rajoy, wake up and put order!". I guess if Rajoy went for a softer response he might lose votes to Cs (which would have adopted a harder position).

But it's still a stupid response. This is unsustainable.

Anyways, the current referendum is being a sh**tshow anyways. The vote counting system is down, 30% of polling places are closed, volunteers counting the votes, last minute changes to the rules, etc. It's only barely better than a North Korean election. I can't see how Catalonia declares independence based on that,

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Ravoy is either an idiot or he's working undercover for the Catalan cause.

[Former President tack50]

You know things are going badly when even soccer is being affected. Barça has asked for today's match against UD Las Palmas (from the Canary Islands) to be suspended.

Also for some bizarre reason UD Las Palmas planned to play with a Spanish flag on their shirts

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Rajoy needs to resign, tbh. This is disgraceful.

[jeron]

Rajoy needs to resign, tbh. This is disgraceful.

Yes, and Puigdemont should too.

[Tender Branson]

A typical "both sides do it" situation.

The Ukrainisation/Russisation of Spain has begun ...

[Zinneke]

A typical "both sides do it" situation.

The Ukrainisation/Russisation of Spain has begun ...

So far one side has engaged in violence though. The other has had its more extreme elements vandalize a few police cars.

[Daniel909012]

The police do not act by order of rajoy, acts by irden of the supreme court of Spanish justice

[Tender Branson]

A typical "both sides do it" situation.

The Ukrainisation/Russisation of Spain has begun ...

So far one side has engaged in violence though. The other has had its more extreme elements vandalize a few police cars.

The situation should have been solved decades ago, not now. The Spanish government of course is right to use police force to block the referendum, because Catalonia is an integral part of Spain - as outlined in the constitution. On the other hand, the Spanish government should have also made clear long ago that the Catalans are not shovelling billions of €s to Madrid because they are a wealthier region. Now, both sides are just dealing with the sympthoms of an issue that was ignored for too long. If you ignore a sickness for too long, it will kill you.

[jeron]

A typical "both sides do it" situation.

The Ukrainisation/Russisation of Spain has begun ...

So far one side has engaged in violence though. The other has had its more extreme elements vandalize a few police cars.

That's incorrect. At least 11 police agents were injured and stones were thrown at the police

[Former President tack50]

Jeremy Corbyn has condemned the police violence: https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/914468254986448899

Belgium's PM has also done the same: https://twitter.com/CharlesMichel/status/914455311553040384

[Zinneke]

The police do not act by order of rajoy, acts by irden of the supreme court of Spanish justice

How is the Supreme Court elected again?

[Zinneke]

A typical "both sides do it" situation.

The Ukrainisation/Russisation of Spain has begun ...

So far one side has engaged in violence though. The other has had its more extreme elements vandalize a few police cars.

The situation should have been solved decades ago, not now. The Spanish government of course is right to use police force to block the referendum, because Catalonia is an integral part of Spain - as outlined in the constitution. On the other hand, the Spanish government should have also made clear long ago that the Catalans are not shovelling billions of €s to Madrid because they are a wealthier region. Now, both sides are just dealing with the sympthoms of an issue that was ignored for too long. If you ignore a sickness for too long, it will kill you.

I agree with you except for the part of use of police force. Addressed to jeron too : the modern Catalan National movement has seldom used force, with the exception of Terra Lliurre, that dissolved decades ago. There is nothing stopping Rajoy from using the same strategy previously used : that of ignoring non-legal referenda and trying the instigators in a court in a dignified, non-violent manner. This sudden police response that includes highly repressive tactics is a disproportionate use of violence.

[GlobeSoc]

I approve of the police's wholesome expression of national unity.

[justfollowingtheelections]

This is disgusting, and the only one responsible is Rajoy.  Podemos had the best approach on this issue.  

[justfollowingtheelections]

Obviously federal police destroying schools will convince those Catalans that they don't need independence.

I agree. Personally I think it should have been handled like 2014. Just allow the Catalan people to vote, say it's illegal and that's it.

My only theory as for why the government is asking this way is because there's some people asking for a harsher response. Yesterday there were many unionist protests all around Spain, and one of the slogans you could read on the signs was "Mr Rajoy, wake up and put order!". I guess if Rajoy went for a softer response he might lose votes to Cs (which would have adopted a harder position).

But it's still a stupid response. This is unsustainable.

Anyways, the current referendum is being a sh**tshow anyways. The vote counting system is down, 30% of polling places are closed, volunteers counting the votes, last minute changes to the rules, etc. It's only barely better than a North Korean election. I can't see how Catalonia declares independence based on that,

The Cs are equally responsible.  They allowed Rajoy to form a government, and now this? 
Spain should have had a similar approach the UK had to the Scotland issue, which is what Podemos wanted.

[SATW]

Disgraceful move by an incompetent and disgraceful government.

This will only intensify tensions and nationalist sentiments. I haven't taken a position on independence, and I don't think it's appropriate for me to do so atm, but it is easy to understand how this will only strengthen the resolve of the nationalists.

[Former President tack50]

Polling stations closed, now they are counting the votes. They closed slightly less 2 hours ago

[TheSaint250]

The Spanish should have just let it happen and ignored it. They should have let it go and told the Catalonians “no.” Now they really look like a dictatorship.

[NewYorkExpress]

And if Catalonia does declare independence, we'll probably see troops marching through Barcelona.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Do we have any idea when there might be results?