BREAKING: Catalonia Declares Independence

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

I think that Catalan independence is a bad idea, but I also think that the people of Catalonia deserve a fair vote.

[Former President tack50]

Official provisional results of the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (using the 2015 regional election as a benchmark, 41% turnout)

Some votes still to be counted, like 50 000 or so.

[TheSaint250]

Official provisional results of the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (using the 2015 regional election as a benchmark, 41% turnout)

Some votes still to be counted, like 50 000 or so.

That's pretty low turnout, if I'm not wrong.  Wasn't it projected to be higher?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Official provisional results of the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (using the 2015 regional election as a benchmark, 41% turnout)

Some votes still to be counted, like 50 000 or so.

That's pretty low turnout, if I'm not wrong.  Wasn't it projected to be higher?

Well, the Spanish Government did everything it could to stop the election, right? I'd think that confiscating ballot boxes and ballots, surround polling locations with riot police, and arresting election officials might have cut down on turnout a little.

[mileslunn]

Why are they are taking a hardline?  Here in Canada and in the UK both didn't want Scotland or Quebec to leave, but neither government used such heavy hand to prevent them from holding referendums.  All Spain had to promise is if Catalonia left Spain would veto it's entry to the EU and even many Catalan nationalists would probably find that too much to stomach as I don't think any contemplated the idea of an independent Catalonia outside of the EU, it was always an independent Catalonia as a member of the EU. 

[Helsinkian]

Official provisional results of the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (using the 2015 regional election as a benchmark, 41% turnout)

Some votes still to be counted, like 50 000 or so.

If you take into account the ballots seized by the police, does the turnout rise to 50 percent?

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Why are they are taking a hardline?  Here in Canada and in the UK both didn't want Scotland or Quebec to leave, but neither government used such heavy hand to prevent them from holding referendums.  All Spain had to promise is if Catalonia left Spain would veto it's entry to the EU and even many Catalan nationalists would probably find that too much to stomach as I don't think any contemplated the idea of an independent Catalonia outside of the EU, it was always an independent Catalonia as a member of the EU. 

Canada and the UK don't have the ruling party be a bunch of Francoists. When Al Qaeda attacked in 2004, they blamed another separatist group, the Basques.

[Former President tack50]

Official provisional results of the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (using the 2015 regional election as a benchmark, 41% turnout)

Some votes still to be counted, like 50 000 or so.

If you take into account the ballots seized by the police, does the turnout rise to 50 percent?

Who knows?

According to the pro-independence side there were 700k ballots seized which would place turnout at 54% turnout or so. Others claim that had there been no police intervention turnout would have reached 55%. Of course unionists will claim that it's less, that the people whose ballots were seized voted elsewhere anyways or that there were tons of instances of people voting more than once.

[Hydera]

Official provisional results of the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (using the 2015 regional election as a benchmark, 41% turnout)

Some votes still to be counted, like 50 000 or so.

If you take into account the ballots seized by the police, does the turnout rise to 50 percent?

Who knows?

According to the pro-independence side there were 700k ballots seized which would place turnout at 54% turnout or so. Others claim that had there been no police intervention turnout would have reached 55%. Of course unionists will claim that it's less, that the people whose ballots were seized voted elsewhere anyways or that there were tons of instances of people voting more than once.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_self-determination_referendum,_2014

in the non binding referendum where spain didnt sent the guardia civil the votes for Yes was 2,111,000 and 230,000 no or invalid. turnout of 37% of the electorate. its unlikely that even without the guardia civil that turnout would be higher.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

There will be a general strike in Catalonia in protest.

[Mr. Reactionary]

I see Pope Douchebag the 32nd has condemned icky nationalists but said nothing about police violence.

[Angel of Death]

Will the Catalans now have another snap election as a de facto independence referendum?

[Former President tack50]

Will the Catalans now have another snap election as a de facto independence referendum?

Probably, I can't see the current government coalition lasting for more than a few months unless they actually declare independence.

[Green Line]

Probably best to just dissolve the regional government.  It's treason.

[NewYorkExpress]

Probably best to just dissolve the regional government.  It's treason.

While they're at it, they might as well send troops into Barcelona.

[SoLongAtlas]

Will the Catalans now have another snap election as a de facto independence referendum?

Probably, I can't see the current government coalition lasting for more than a few months unless they actually declare independence.

That is inbound potentially as early as Wednesday (tomorrow) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/catalan-independence-referendum-spain-mariano-rajoy-violence-barcelona-girona-catalonia-carles-a7979546.html

Would this be the point at which Spain sends in troops? An even more deadly outcome if they do.

[nicholas.slaydon]

Probably best to just dissolve the regional government.  It's treason.

[Gass3268]

I am now 100% behind the independence movement.

[Santander]

Official provisional results of the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (using the 2015 regional election as a benchmark, 41% turnout)

Some votes still to be counted, like 50 000 or so.

That's pretty low turnout, if I'm not wrong.  Wasn't it projected to be higher?

Anti-secessionists mostly boycotted the referendum.

[Tintrlvr]

Official provisional results of the referendum:

Yes 2,020,144(90 %)
No 176,566(7,8 %)
Turnout: 2,262,464 (using the 2015 regional election as a benchmark, 41% turnout)

Some votes still to be counted, like 50 000 or so.

That's pretty low turnout, if I'm not wrong.  Wasn't it projected to be higher?

Around 700,000 ballots were seized by the Spanish government and not counted. Also, most anti-independence voters did not vote, and probably the violence by the police scared some pro-independence voters off from voting, too. It seems extremely likely that independence would have won without the boycott and Spanish government intervention, given the results and assuming a healthy turnout of more like 80% (similar to the Scottish referendum).

[NewYorkExpress]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/europe/catalonia-general-strike-protests-barcelona/index.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.

King Felipe usually doesn't get involved in government affairs...so this is truly serious. We almost certainly will see troops marching into Catalonia should they declare independence.

[Former President tack50]

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/europe/catalonia-general-strike-protests-barcelona/index.html

You must be logged in to read this quote.

King Felipe usually doesn't get involved in government affairs...so this is truly serious. We almost certainly will see troops marching into Catalonia should they declare independence.

Yeah this is extremely serious for the king to put a speech on national TV. IMO the speech was pretty lame and he didn't say anything he hadn't said before, but the fact that he made a speech is truly unprecedented.

Outside Christmas, only 3 speeches have ever happened before: during the 1981 coup, right after the Madrid bombings in 2004 and  when Juan Carlos resigned.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Has Felipe aged like 20 years since his coronation?

[swl]

I was expecting the king to desescalate the situation... butthe opposite is happening

[publicunofficial]

You know who's a good person to listen to about what is and isn't undemocratic? The f**king MONARCH.

I am now 100% behind the independence movement.

This. I was ambivalent before and didn't want to take a stance because of my own ignorance of Spain's politics, but everything I've seen from Catalonia this week says the independence movement is completely justified.