BREAKING: Catalonia Declares Independence

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

FF move by the Spanish government.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

They should have just ran a campaign to defeat it at the ballot box.  The polls are close, which means it would likely fail anyways. Best case was going to be a kind of narrow pass, nothing like the Kurdistan vote the week before will be like.

Best not to open Pandora's Box.
Mas and his foolish followers should not be appeased.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Artur Mas is a baby who whined 'MADRID!'.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Catalonia doesn't deserve to be able to break away even if nationalists can arguably easily corral a majority (if we treat the 2015 regional election as a proxy). Rajoy's handling of the situation has been good in my opinion. Una España unida y indivisible.
If these nationalist politicians want to lose their positions, that's fine by me. Unmerited hatred against other regions in Spain, needless division, and manufactured greivances with little to no basis in actual history are the true foundations of modern Catalan nationalism. Franco is no longer in power, and they have some autonomy. They don't seem to care about rule of law or the truth. Their narration of the past is filled with lies and ideologically motivated half-truths, and they've successfully brainwashed a big chunk of the youngest generation. They are agents of sectional-based hatred and unneeded division, and they must not be allowed to win. Rajoy must keep his spine and his resolve to keep Spain together. He needs to woo those who haven't bought into the nationalists' lies.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Catalonia doesn't deserve to be able to break away even if nationalists can arguably easily corral a majority (if we treat the 2015 regional election as a proxy). Rajoy's handling of the situation has been good in my opinion. Una España unida y indivisible.
If these nationalist politicians want to lose their positions, that's fine by me. Unmerited hatred against other regions in Spain, needless division, and manufactured greivances with little to no basis in actual history are the true foundations of modern Catalan nationalism. Franco is no longer in power, and they have some autonomy. They don't seem to care about rule of law or the truth. Their narration of the past is filled with lies and ideologically motivated half-truths, and they've successfully brainwashed a big chunk of the youngest generation. They are agents of sectional-based hatred and unneeded division, and they must not be allowed to win. Rajoy must keep his spine and his resolve to keep Spain together. He needs to woo those who haven't bought into the nationalists' lies.

Why this weird hatred? Catalonia is a nation with its own language and culture. If they want their own nation state what does it matter to you? All peoples should be entitled to self-determination.

Catalonia isn't being suppressed like it was under Franco, for one. They are free to speak Catalan and enjoy their culture. They should be recognized as a nation within Spain (the courts really overreached themselves in 2010) but independence would be a terrible idea for all parties involved. As long as the nationalists in Spain keep talking up referendums and keep ignoring court rulings and all that, they must accept the risks they are putting on their political careers.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Catalonia doesn't deserve to be able to break away even if nationalists can arguably easily corral a majority (if we treat the 2015 regional election as a proxy). Rajoy's handling of the situation has been good in my opinion. Una España unida y indivisible.
If these nationalist politicians want to lose their positions, that's fine by me. Unmerited hatred against other regions in Spain, needless division, and manufactured greivances with little to no basis in actual history are the true foundations of modern Catalan nationalism. Franco is no longer in power, and they have some autonomy. They don't seem to care about rule of law or the truth. Their narration of the past is filled with lies and ideologically motivated half-truths, and they've successfully brainwashed a big chunk of the youngest generation. They are agents of sectional-based hatred and unneeded division, and they must not be allowed to win. Rajoy must keep his spine and his resolve to keep Spain together. He needs to woo those who haven't bought into the nationalists' lies.

Why this weird hatred? Catalonia is a nation with its own language and culture. If they want their own nation state what does it matter to you? All peoples should be entitled to self-determination.

Catalonia isn't being suppressed like it was under Franco, for one. They are free to speak Catalan and enjoy their culture. They should be recognized as a nation within Spain (the courts really overreached themselves in 2010) but independence would be a terrible idea for all parties involved. As long as the nationalists in Spain keep talking up referendums and keep ignoring court rulings and all that, they must accept the risks they are putting on their political careers.

I was mostly referring to the weird passion you seem to have about this.

What does "suppression" have to do with anything? There should be a general right to self-determination for any nation whether its oppressed or not.

Independence would hardly be a terrible idea for the Catalans. They can easily manage without being part of the rather inept Spanish state.

I don't have the same view as you do regarding self-determination as a concept and I generally see independence as a matter of last resort. Mas and his supporters seem to have a victimization complex that can have a terribly corrosive element to popular political culture and stirs up resentments and bad feelings, not to mention manufacturing artificial grievances - all this having no real positive effect in this case, IMO. Being within the boundaries of the same nation generally ought to be an opportunity for cooperation, brotherhood, and positive civic pride (within limits ofc - all three of these things can be twisted for bad ends).
Instead of seeking to make Spain a better place and spread a sense of togetherness, they broadcast this message of grievance that can have a gravely toxic effect. Once you replace humility with self-importance and replace brotherly love with petty (i.e. unjustified) grievance, bad things can result.
I have few positive things to say about these people.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

You do raise fair points.
Espana, Una, Grande y Libre is indeed a superior version to use in this context.
As for the recent radicalization of the nationalist movement in Catalonia, it does show that the 2010 court ruling (which really started this mess) was too broad and sweeping. Catalonia is most definitely a nation, not one that deserves independence but still has a distinct heritage and history that deserves respect. The form that respect takes can take many forms; if one that is perhaps wider than necessary is used, it really isn't the end of the world.
And, I guess I do need to give them credit for them being completely peaceful.
To me, governance is a cooperative project, and mutual respect is very important. I judge the Catalan nationalists rather harshly, but that by no means it's fair to say the PP has been blameless either.
You raise a very good point about nationalism as well - something that can be lost in this era of successionist movements. Nationalism outright birthed Italy, Germany, and loads of countries in Africa and Asia. What we are seeing now is something of a reversion to the mean, with the reverse gear in use instead.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Espana, Una, Grande y Libre is indeed a superior version to use in this context.

You do understand whose slogan that was, don't you?

I don't know who used it, but the word Libre in there certainly seems like it could have some potential for countering 'FREE CATALONIA' propoganda of Mas and friends.