Anti-science views in the left
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 01:38:31 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Political Debate (Moderator: Torie)
  Anti-science views in the left
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2]
Author Topic: Anti-science views in the left  (Read 2459 times)
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2017, 04:29:23 PM »

The Nazis had a bit of an odder relationship with science. They had much of a bigger interest in outright woo - mysticism, the occult, fringe religious movements and romanticism - than the scientism of the Soviets.
Logged
🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
shua
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,664
Nepal


Political Matrix
E: 1.29, S: -0.70

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2017, 05:13:20 PM »

Most people with views labeled "anti-science" are very much believers in science in the abstract, they just believe that the commonly accepted science is perverted by ideological biases, political agendas and/or corporate corruption.
Logged
darklordoftech
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,388
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2017, 05:29:50 PM »

Most people with views labeled "anti-science" are very much believers in science in the abstract, they just believe that the commonly accepted science is perverted by ideological biases, political agendas and/or corporate corruption.
It's a form of anti-intellectualism: the belief that those who society considers the experts can't be trusted.
Logged
FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,284
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2017, 05:31:16 PM »

Most people with views labeled "anti-science" are very much believers in science in the abstract, they just believe that the commonly accepted science is perverted by ideological biases, political agendas and/or corporate corruption.
It's a form of anti-intellectualism: the belief that those who society considers the experts can't be trusted.

So are scientists that push against the intellectual orthodoxy by default anti-intellectual? You know there are disagreements within the natural sciences, correct?
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,611


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2017, 07:51:16 PM »

Anti-GMO is one thing I can think of, although the issue is much more nuanced than one may think.
cough cough dead0man

That said, the anti-GMO movement on the left is somewhat overstated, I mean, Bill Nye was originally against GMOs but came around and admitted fault (and this was a while ago, too).

The anti-vax movement also once held ground with some of the nuts on the left, but this issue is now more associated with the right; Donald Trump is an anti-vaxxer, while there are no power-holding left-wing politicians that are anti-vaxxers.

The ultra-authoritarian far left, i.e. Mao and Stalin, were quite anti-science.

Despite all of this, I would say that anti-science views are, objectively speaking, much less common on the left than on the right.



Ah yes, who can forget that the non-vaccination rate is highest in those Trumpist bastions; Oregon and Vermont.

The correlation with political views isn't that strong since Idaho and some other Republican western states are high and NY and RI are low.
Logged
Coraxion
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 906
Ethiopia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2017, 08:45:44 PM »

Astrology and the anti-GMO "movement" are stupid, but climate change denial (which is more prevalent among Republicans than the former is among Democrats) threatens the survival of humanity.
Logged
TJ in Oregon
TJ in Cleve
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,952
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2017, 08:50:09 PM »

Most people with views labeled "anti-science" are very much believers in science in the abstract, they just believe that the commonly accepted science is perverted by ideological biases, political agendas and/or corporate corruption.
It's a form of anti-intellectualism: the belief that those who society considers the experts can't be trusted.

The belief that those who society considers the experts can't be trusted isn't anti-intellectualism; it's the basic premise behind Democracy. It requires the experts to not just decide, but also convince.

As Americans grow increasingly isolated and cynical, I expect confidence in science to continue to decline, much like confidence in every other institution.

Also I find it rather surprising 30%+ of Americans of any ideology will actually admit to believing in Astrology.
Logged
darklordoftech
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,388
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2017, 11:18:42 PM »

Most people with views labeled "anti-science" are very much believers in science in the abstract, they just believe that the commonly accepted science is perverted by ideological biases, political agendas and/or corporate corruption.
It's a form of anti-intellectualism: the belief that those who society considers the experts can't be trusted.

The belief that those who society considers the experts can't be trusted isn't anti-intellectualism; it's the basic premise behind Democracy. It requires the experts to not just decide, but also convince.
I didn't say that anti-intellectualism is always bad.
Logged
TheLeftwardTide
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 988
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2017, 02:17:07 AM »
« Edited: September 18, 2017, 02:20:07 AM by Angry Socdem »

*snippity snip*
The correlation with political views isn't that strong since Idaho and some other Republican western states are high and NY and RI are low.
You hit the nail on the head.

Using the map provided by DC Al Fine, along with every state's PVI, I made a little graph to try to scientifically determine whether or not there is actually any correlation:

Sure, the """correlation""" is positive, but this """correlation""" essentially doesn't exist. An R^2 value of <0.02 is pitiful, and shows that the function in question - in this case, Unvaccination Rates vs. State PVI - has almost (or, ignoring technicalities, essentially) zero correlation.

It seems as if it's the right, i.e. DC Al Fine and dead0man, are the ones who are anti-science, defying basic math straight in the face.
Logged
DC Al Fine
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,085
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2017, 05:13:16 AM »

It seems as if it's the right, i.e. DC Al Fine and dead0man, are the ones who are anti-science, defying basic math straight in the face.

Roll Eyes

Let's look at what I actually said.

Anti-GMO is one thing I can think of, although the issue is much more nuanced than one may think.
cough cough dead0man

That said, the anti-GMO movement on the left is somewhat overstated, I mean, Bill Nye was originally against GMOs but came around and admitted fault (and this was a while ago, too).

The anti-vax movement also once held ground with some of the nuts on the left, but this issue is now more associated with the right; Donald Trump is an anti-vaxxer, while there are no power-holding left-wing politicians that are anti-vaxxers.

The ultra-authoritarian far left, i.e. Mao and Stalin, were quite anti-science.

Despite all of this, I would say that anti-science views are, objectively speaking, much less common on the left than on the right.

img snip

Ah yes, who can forget that the non-vaccination rate is highest in those Trumpist bastions; Oregon and Vermont.

You say anti-vax was once a left wing thing, but is now more associated with the right. I post some counter examples without ever saying it's a "left wing thing", and you run a freaking regression analysis to knock down a strawman. You're something else dude.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2017, 06:23:25 AM »

I think we should distinguish between pseudoscience i.e. people using terms and processes of the scientific method to lend scientific cover for spurious conclusions and being metaphysical (i.e. somebody who believes that there some observable phenomena do not have rational explanations, and lean on mysticism or theistic explanations).

Logged
7,052,770
Harry
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 35,218
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2017, 08:26:39 PM »

Let's look at what I actually said.

...

You say anti-vax was once a left wing thing, but is now more associated with the right. I post some counter examples without ever saying it's a "left wing thing", and you run a freaking regression analysis to knock down a strawman. You're something else dude.



Fair enough, but you've made the argument before, so you can't blame people for misinterpreting your words in this particular thread:

Wait, WV and Mississippi are the only 2 states who are correct on an issue? Has hell frozen over?

This is a crunchy granola problem for the most part.
Logged
Young Conservative
youngconservative
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,029
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2017, 08:34:42 PM »

The greatest scientific denials we face today are that climate change is not happening* and that abortion does not end a life.
*The extent to which man causes it is up for debate.
Logged
FEMA Camp Administrator
Cathcon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,284
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2017, 09:45:24 AM »

Let's look at what I actually said.

...

You say anti-vax was once a left wing thing, but is now more associated with the right. I post some counter examples without ever saying it's a "left wing thing", and you run a freaking regression analysis to knock down a strawman. You're something else dude.



Fair enough, but you've made the argument before, so you can't blame people for misinterpreting your words in this particular thread:

Wait, WV and Mississippi are the only 2 states who are correct on an issue? Has hell frozen over?

This is a crunchy granola problem for the most part.

Granola cons are more likely to exist in the West than the South.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.053 seconds with 11 queries.