Is Virginia in the South? What parts?

[muon2]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

[Frodo]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

That makes more sense, although I would say the Atlantic South would encompass the old former southern colonies before the expansion over the Appalachians (itself being its own sub-region: Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia), with the Deep South covering the territory won after the War of 1812 (plus Florida after the Seminole wars).  Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and certain parts of Missouri would be another sub-region I would probably call the Frontier South.    

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

Does Arkansas even lie in Appalachia?

[AN63093]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

Does Arkansas even lie in Appalachia?

Geographically no, but its demographics are pretty much exactly the same as a place like TN.  There are some areas that I would consider more "Deep South," particularly around the Mississippi, but most of the state is inhabited by (and descendants of) the same Scots-Irish group that moved west from VA and the Carolinas when those areas opened up for settlement, and that you find in places like TN and KY.

[AN63093]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

I like those categories.  Question though- how far north does the Coastal South go?

Because if we're delineating out a coastal region that is distinct from both the Gulf areas and the Appalachian areas, then it's no longer clear that the line should end at the DC MSA.  I would argue that if we have a Coastal South region, then DC, most of MD, and arguably most of DE would be included.  In my opinion, it would end somewhere around the Delaware Memorial Bridge.  Wilmington might be just over the boundary.

[muon2]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

I like those categories.  Question though- how far north does the Coastal South go?

Because if we're delineating out a coastal region that is distinct from both the Gulf areas and the Appalachian areas, then it's no longer clear that the line should end at the DC MSA.  I would argue that if we have a Coastal South region, then DC, most of MD, and arguably most of DE would be included.  In my opinion, it would end somewhere around the Delaware Memorial Bridge.  Wilmington might be just over the boundary.

Most of DE is Wilmington if I'm counting population. I agree that southern DE fits the Atlantic South region, but since that's the minority of the population that I'd put DE in the North. My best man lives in southern DE, so I've had the opportunity to visit there a number of times.

I lived out east in the 80's and spent a lot of time in the 80's and 90's up and down the BosWash (now Acela) corridor. Unless it's changed dramatically, I can't see Balto and Philly grouped anyway but in the same region, and I can't see Philly as part of the South. DC is hard to classify because the federal capital makes it a cultural melting pot, but economically it clearly shares population with Balto.

[RINO Tom]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

Does Arkansas even lie in Appalachia?

Geographically no, but its demographics are pretty much exactly the same as a place like TN.  There are some areas that I would consider more "Deep South," particularly around the Mississippi, but most of the state is inhabited by (and descendants of) the same Scots-Irish group that moved west from VA and the Carolinas when those areas opened up for settlement, and that you find in places like TN and KY.

I just don't understand this type of thinking.  I think talking about the "cultural South" and where its boundaries lie is interesting, but these are geographic regions.  Utah and Vermont looked like very, very similar states in the mid-20th Century on several levels, but they obviously were totally different regions.  You're talking about subregions, which is needless to say different, but I don't see the need to put AR in an Appalachian region when it has none of the mountains.  Appalachia extends into PA, a Northeastern state; the subregion doesn't have to be homogeneous.  I don't know, I just think this type of thinking leads (other) people to say dumb things like "Wississippi" (because it's so unbelievable WI could just vote for a Republican without sharing any cultural connection to any part of the South).

[Skill and Chance]

2/3rds Southern, 1/3rd not Southern.

[AN63093]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

Does Arkansas even lie in Appalachia?

Geographically no, but its demographics are pretty much exactly the same as a place like TN.  There are some areas that I would consider more "Deep South," particularly around the Mississippi, but most of the state is inhabited by (and descendants of) the same Scots-Irish group that moved west from VA and the Carolinas when those areas opened up for settlement, and that you find in places like TN and KY.

I just don't understand this type of thinking.  I think talking about the "cultural South" and where its boundaries lie is interesting, but these are geographic regions.  Utah and Vermont looked like very, very similar states in the mid-20th Century on several levels, but they obviously were totally different regions.  You're talking about subregions, which is needless to say different, but I don't see the need to put AR in an Appalachian region when it has none of the mountains.  Appalachia extends into PA, a Northeastern state; the subregion doesn't have to be homogeneous.  I don't know, I just think this type of thinking leads (other) people to say dumb things like "Wississippi" (because it's so unbelievable WI could just vote for a Republican without sharing any cultural connection to any part of the South).

Well first, the difference between a place like AR, and say UT/VT, or WI, is that AR is contiguous with the South.  A big chunk of it borders the Mississippi Delta, which is arguably the "most Southern" area of the country, so we're not exactly talking about a "Wississippi" type of situation Tom.  AR is undeniably part of the South, it's just a matter of what part of the South, and, when peeling that back, it's helpful to look at things like culture and demographics.

Second, I don't define regions solely by geography.  I consider it, but I also consider things like culture, linguistic patterns, demographics, architectural style, cuisine, settlement patterns, and so on.  For the simple reason that state lines can and often are somewhat arbitrarily imposed, or may have reflected something very important at the time, but not so much anymore.  If you want to consider solely geography, well then, have at it.

Obviously I do consider geography to some degree, I mean- this is why I disagreed with ExtremeRepublican's map on the last page (go read my discussion of it there), because I thought it was way too large and included too many places that were simply rural and "Southern influenced," which I don't think is enough... because at that point, you could argue a majority of the country between the coastal cities is "the South," which is obviously ridiculous.  Well that and he also had some places in the South that are clearly not, like St Louis.

Also I know of all your pet peeves when categorizing groups that vote Republican.  No, this thread is not about how only uneducated rural Southerners vote Republican and the Democrats are the party of educated cosmopolitan folk.  This thread isn't going there.  So there's no need to get 'triggered' Tom.

[muon2]

I think the best solution is to think of the South as three areas - Appalachian South, Deep (or Gulf) South and Atlantic South. Then VA is easily in the Atlantic South since that matches the largest part of its population. NC and maybe SC is in that region, too. GA, AL, MS, and LA are the deep South. AR, TN, KY, and WV would fall in the Appalachian South by that measure. Of course its easier to make the split at the county level, but that's the issue with many states - their counties span more than one region.

Does Arkansas even lie in Appalachia?

The Ozarks and Ouachita mountains effectively extend the geography of Appalachians west across the Mississippi valley. Much of that region was settled by people from the southern Appalachians and they brought their language and culture across the river and engaged in resource extraction and subsistence farming like they did in Appalachia. Portrayals of the Ozarks/Ouachitas in popular media are often indistinguishable from portrayals of Appalachia.

[RINO Tom]

Wouldn't say I got triggered, LOL.  Just used "Wississippi" as an example of how drawing cultural comparisons between two states to argue they are in the same region is silly, even if they border each other.  Other factors matter more like where they actually are.  Regions can and should vary substantially from state to state.

[Lechasseur]

I'd say Virginia is Southern except for the NOVA counties. Though Richmond and Hampton Roads seem to be having more Northern influence, they're still Southern (but Upper South, of course, obviously not Deep South).

This