Ontario 2018 election
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Author Topic: Ontario 2018 election  (Read 198838 times)
Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #800 on: May 09, 2018, 11:45:19 AM »

Looks like you should be supporting the Greens!
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lilTommy
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« Reply #801 on: May 09, 2018, 12:01:19 PM »

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/results/?s=9582aaad3bd3808761d671c5271f76f39579efc51525884901

Out lefting everyone Tongue

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toaster
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« Reply #802 on: May 09, 2018, 03:40:45 PM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all
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MAINEiac4434
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« Reply #803 on: May 09, 2018, 04:55:37 PM »

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/results/?s=6fada09f3c0fd30bcb04ade1c9ee2fe8d951e88b1525898595
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wxtransit
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« Reply #804 on: May 09, 2018, 05:27:38 PM »

Here's mine:

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/results/?s=c1043f41bd6bdeb24389067511ba784794bfabb41525903278
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MaxQue
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« Reply #805 on: May 09, 2018, 05:46:04 PM »

I've got a NDP-Liberal tie, ugh.

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/results/?s=8c96d69ace0d29ee7ec547e36b9535a2b52cc1311525905649
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #806 on: May 09, 2018, 05:52:12 PM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all

Not wanting a government monopoly on weed does not make a party right wing. In fact, getting out of the business of selling weed frees up a lot of money for the government to spend on social programs.
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Not_Madigan
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« Reply #807 on: May 09, 2018, 06:26:19 PM »

I got this

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/results/?s=15b3bf2c0de8c395feec429184d00ec0463672e01525907851

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ON Progressive
OntarioProgressive
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« Reply #808 on: May 09, 2018, 07:15:46 PM »

I got basically a tie between the Greens (83%) and NDP (82%), with the Liberals at 77% and PCs at 38%.
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #809 on: May 09, 2018, 07:49:22 PM »

72% Green, 63% Liberal, 60% NDP, 46% P.C.  With the New Zealand election I was below 50% for all the major parties.
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Pragmatic Conservative
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« Reply #810 on: May 09, 2018, 08:28:56 PM »

I got 74% liberal, 67% Green, 63% NDP and 52% PC

https://votecompass.cbc.ca/ontario/results/?s=5ba1c4e480e23eae22bfad10c738ab80203b624a1525915310
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #811 on: May 09, 2018, 09:00:35 PM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all

Not wanting a government monopoly on weed does not make a party right wing. In fact, getting out of the business of selling weed frees up a lot of money for the government to spend on social programs.

Are you claiming the government can't make a profit with having a monopoly selling weed? 

I realize you're likely arguing that the government would make more money taxing it than being in the retail business itself, but, at least in British Columbia, the government seems to have done a good job with liquor stores (beer and wine can now be sold privately, separate from bars and restaurants of course.)

I only know so much about this because I don't drink alcohol, but the government run stores seem to get a fair deal of praise.
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toaster
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« Reply #812 on: May 09, 2018, 09:18:35 PM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all

Not wanting a government monopoly on weed does not make a party right wing. In fact, getting out of the business of selling weed frees up a lot of money for the government to spend on social programs.

The revenues expected (and what we see in Ontario on liquor sales) are much higher when a monopoly is maintained, not to mention the good union jobs these agencies create.  And it's more left wing (i.e., closer to socialism) to have government run businesses.  The Greens want Galen Weston (and mom and pop shops) profiting off my vices. 
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #813 on: May 10, 2018, 05:46:11 AM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all

Not wanting a government monopoly on weed does not make a party right wing. In fact, getting out of the business of selling weed frees up a lot of money for the government to spend on social programs.

Are you claiming the government can't make a profit with having a monopoly selling weed? 

I realize you're likely arguing that the government would make more money taxing it than being in the retail business itself, but, at least in British Columbia, the government seems to have done a good job with liquor stores (beer and wine can now be sold privately, separate from bars and restaurants of course.)

I only know so much about this because I don't drink alcohol, but the government run stores seem to get a fair deal of praise.

Count your lucky stars. Nova Scotia Liquor Commission is awful.
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DL
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« Reply #814 on: May 10, 2018, 07:26:58 AM »

Things are getting interesting with a brand new poll by Forum all conducted Wednesday night

PCs 40%
NDP 33%
OLP 22%
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lilTommy
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« Reply #815 on: May 10, 2018, 07:36:27 AM »

You just beat me to it!

http://torontosun.com/news/provincial/poll-favours-ontario-ndp-as-opposition-to-a-pc-majority-goverment

http://poll.forumresearch.com/data/5d6357bf-f171-4aa2-839c-381e714ff96fOntario%20Horserace%20Day%201.pdf

PC: -6
NDP: +6
OLP: +1
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adma
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« Reply #816 on: May 10, 2018, 08:09:34 AM »


Funny thing is the talk of the PC's cautious frontrunner's campaign don't reflect the reality of candidate controversy, fake-supporter controversy, inconvenient-sound-bite controversy, etc...
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #817 on: May 10, 2018, 08:17:47 AM »

A couple more points:

1) I agree with the consensus that Horwath won and Ford lost. I will add that Wynne lost in the sense of coming off as a desperate incumbent and failing to steal any thunder from Horwath, which she needs to do to avoid total disaster.

2) Re Allen: There is a lot of tension between conservative parties and the socon movement right now. Socons are too unpopular to embrace but too important to the conservative winning coalition to disavow entirely. Thats not to say we're on the brink of a realignment but I'm hearing grumbling about the Tories that I wasn't hearing five years ago. Something has to give eventually, although Im not quite sure what that "something" will be.

I suspect if there is a switch to PR anywhere you will see the two split into separate parties and ironically under PR it would help not hurt them.  I oppose PR myself, but there seems to be a strong push for it so wouldn't be surprised if one province goes to it.  If it is a disaster it will sort itself out as they will realize they have no choice.  In addition there is also demographic churn to so as older voters die off and new ones become of age that will diminish their clout.  As for recent immigrants, that is greatly overplayed.  Many maybe social conservatives, but its rarely a major driving issue in how they vote as most understand when they move to Canada it is a more socially liberal country so no real interest in trying to change it.  Never mind the fact a lot of the loudest socons are often racist too scares a lot of them away.

Here's the problem this take: "socons are facing demographic decline" is an oversimplification.

Socons are certainly facing a decline, but data indicates that most of this decline is coming from nominal believers and irregular church attendees. The hardcore is holding steady*, i.e. the sort of people who nominated Sam Oosterhoff and voted for Granic Allen. I think this phenomenon is responsible for current tensions as the bulk of the Tories (read: irregular attendees or nominal Christians) is much less sympathetic to the hardcore than in the 90's.

PR would be the obvious solution to the divide, but assuming that doesn't happen, I suspect we will just see a gradual increase in tensions between a socon base that the party doesn't like but needs to win, followed by a trend towards non-partisan activism and political quietism when the party finally kicks us out.

*Sadly there's no detailed data for Canada, so I'm basing this off of US data, but it does correspond to what I see in my area.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #818 on: May 10, 2018, 08:19:45 AM »

Things are getting interesting with a brand new poll by Forum all conducted Wednesday night

PCs 40%
NDP 33%
OLP 22%

So how long do you think it will be until the Tories pivot to a "stop the socialist hordes" campaign?
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #819 on: May 10, 2018, 08:58:57 AM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all

Not wanting a government monopoly on weed does not make a party right wing. In fact, getting out of the business of selling weed frees up a lot of money for the government to spend on social programs.

Are you claiming the government can't make a profit with having a monopoly selling weed? 

I realize you're likely arguing that the government would make more money taxing it than being in the retail business itself, but, at least in British Columbia, the government seems to have done a good job with liquor stores (beer and wine can now be sold privately, separate from bars and restaurants of course.)

I only know so much about this because I don't drink alcohol, but the government run stores seem to get a fair deal of praise.

The government can make a profit selling weed, but I think if they weren't in the business, they'd make more money off of the taxes, and they wouldn't have to spend money running the Cannabis Control Board (or whatever they're going to call it).

Perhaps this is 'unsocialist' of me (I do have a bit of a libertarian streak), but I don't think the government should be running unessential businesses. Especially when it comes to vices, I think it's very puritanical.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #820 on: May 10, 2018, 09:08:52 AM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all

Not wanting a government monopoly on weed does not make a party right wing. In fact, getting out of the business of selling weed frees up a lot of money for the government to spend on social programs.

Are you claiming the government can't make a profit with having a monopoly selling weed? 

I realize you're likely arguing that the government would make more money taxing it than being in the retail business itself, but, at least in British Columbia, the government seems to have done a good job with liquor stores (beer and wine can now be sold privately, separate from bars and restaurants of course.)

I only know so much about this because I don't drink alcohol, but the government run stores seem to get a fair deal of praise.

The government can make a profit selling weed, but I think if they weren't in the business, they'd make more money off of the taxes, and they wouldn't have to spend money running the Cannabis Control Board (or whatever they're going to call it).

Perhaps this is 'unsocialist' of me (I do have a bit of a libertarian streak), but I don't think the government should be running unessential businesses. Especially when it comes to vices, I think it's very puritanical.

Plus a certain % of people will abuse gambling, liquor etc. Having the government profit off it and having an incentive to ignore the problem gives me the creeps.
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toaster
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« Reply #821 on: May 10, 2018, 09:12:27 AM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all

Not wanting a government monopoly on weed does not make a party right wing. In fact, getting out of the business of selling weed frees up a lot of money for the government to spend on social programs.

Are you claiming the government can't make a profit with having a monopoly selling weed? 

I realize you're likely arguing that the government would make more money taxing it than being in the retail business itself, but, at least in British Columbia, the government seems to have done a good job with liquor stores (beer and wine can now be sold privately, separate from bars and restaurants of course.)

I only know so much about this because I don't drink alcohol, but the government run stores seem to get a fair deal of praise.

The government can make a profit selling weed, but I think if they weren't in the business, they'd make more money off of the taxes, and they wouldn't have to spend money running the Cannabis Control Board (or whatever they're going to call it).

Perhaps this is 'unsocialist' of me (I do have a bit of a libertarian streak), but I don't think the government should be running unessential businesses. Especially when it comes to vices, I think it's very puritanical.

I wouldn't say it's libertarian, I would say it's pro business/capitalism, or for lack of a better term, on the right fiscally.  Even if the government lost money on the sale of cannabis (which they won't, once the system is up and running), it brings a large number of good unionized jobs with it, instead of a few at the top taking in all the profit.  It doesn't really matter to me if it's Galen Weston or Mom & pop shops, I fundamentally disagree with a few people making large profits when we could share the wealth (and the jobs) across a larger group of people (i.e., employees), and help expand that shrinking middle class. The government can also re-invest the profits into healthcare, education, and infrastructure.  Or we can put that money towards new houses for the ultra rich.
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lilTommy
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« Reply #822 on: May 10, 2018, 09:34:19 AM »

Why is the Green Party on the Economic left there?  They are much further right than either Liberals or NDP on that front, with wanting to privatize weed sales and all

Not wanting a government monopoly on weed does not make a party right wing. In fact, getting out of the business of selling weed frees up a lot of money for the government to spend on social programs.

Are you claiming the government can't make a profit with having a monopoly selling weed? 

I realize you're likely arguing that the government would make more money taxing it than being in the retail business itself, but, at least in British Columbia, the government seems to have done a good job with liquor stores (beer and wine can now be sold privately, separate from bars and restaurants of course.)

I only know so much about this because I don't drink alcohol, but the government run stores seem to get a fair deal of praise.

The government can make a profit selling weed, but I think if they weren't in the business, they'd make more money off of the taxes, and they wouldn't have to spend money running the Cannabis Control Board (or whatever they're going to call it).

Perhaps this is 'unsocialist' of me (I do have a bit of a libertarian streak), but I don't think the government should be running unessential businesses. Especially when it comes to vices, I think it's very puritanical.

I wouldn't say it's libertarian, I would say it's pro business/capitalism, or for lack of a better term, on the right fiscally.  Even if the government lost money on the sale of cannabis (which they won't, once the system is up and running), it brings a large number of good unionized jobs with it, instead of a few at the top taking in all the profit.  It doesn't really matter to me if it's Galen Weston or Mom & pop shops, I fundamentally disagree with a few people making large profits when we could share the wealth (and the jobs) across a larger group of people (i.e., employees), and help expand that shrinking middle class. The government can also re-invest the profits into healthcare, education, and infrastructure.  Or we can put that money towards new houses for the ultra rich.

I tend to support the Gov't ownership model as well, but would be supportive of heavily regulated private sales via independent owned, co-operative/worker owned small shops.  Restricting out Big franchises and large corporations like Shoppers.
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Hatman 🍁
EarlAW
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« Reply #823 on: May 10, 2018, 09:37:31 AM »

Well, ideally the private marijuana shops would be unionized as well. If you're going to use that as an argument, why not just mandate that if you want to sell cannabis, you have to have a unionized work force?
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lilTommy
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« Reply #824 on: May 10, 2018, 10:02:42 AM »
« Edited: May 10, 2018, 10:07:07 AM by lilTommy »

Well, ideally the private marijuana shops would be unionized as well. If you're going to use that as an argument, why not just mandate that if you want to sell cannabis, you have to have a unionized work force?

*** frantically emailing the ONDP this idea*** Tongue

to really no ones surprise, ETFO endorses the ONDP
http://toronto.citynews.ca/2018/05/10/etfo-ndp-ontario-election/

I believe the OFL has already done this?
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