HB 1152 - Carbon Tax Act (Passed)
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  HB 1152 - Carbon Tax Act (Passed)
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Author Topic: HB 1152 - Carbon Tax Act (Passed)  (Read 3767 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2017, 05:53:39 PM »

PiT make sure you recognize each amendment and assign it a number.

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That way people know which amendment is under consideration. It may seem pointless but if you get several amendments in a row and are dealing with them one at a time, it is better to have the amendment in question in the same post calling for 24 hours.
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2017, 07:57:15 AM »

I'm proposing an amendment to protect Atlasian jobs and urge other nations to take action on climate change. This way, there won't be an incentive for companies to move abroad because of the passage of this bill.

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I approve of this amendment.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2017, 09:48:00 PM »

     The amendment has been adopted. I will be sure to use a numbering system in the future, as I have found it to be useful as PPT to refer back to amendment numbers.
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RFayette
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« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2017, 12:46:36 PM »

I'm proposing an amendment to protect Atlasian jobs and urge other nations to take action on climate change. This way, there won't be an incentive for companies to move abroad because of the passage of this bill.

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I approve of this amendment.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #29 on: September 25, 2017, 01:42:54 PM »

     The amendment has been adopted. I will be sure to use a numbering system in the future, as I have found it to be useful as PPT to refer back to amendment numbers.


It will be tricky though, because Amendments are numbered across the whole house so if another one was offered on another bill after my last update to the tracker, that one would take the next number.

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vivaportugalhabs
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« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2017, 12:37:24 PM »

Is a final vote forthcoming? I believe the legislation provides a market solution to climate change, instead of top-down complex regulations. Not to mention, it protects jobs and raises immense amounts of revenue.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2017, 05:22:43 PM »

     If there are no more comments, I will open a final vote in 24 hours.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2017, 05:48:41 PM »

I like this policy, but I do think that some of the revenue should go toward funding alternative energy source research rather than solely a rebate check, though perhaps that is better suited for other legislation.

While I am a supporter of a carbon tax, I can't help but feel like I agree with Congressman RFayette on this, and can't seem to find anywhere that this was even addressed.

I know at one point in the Senate it was discussed that this would fund the Renewable Energy Rebate and Subsidy Act, but it appears nothing ever came of it. Considering that's already something where Atlasia citizens receive a monetary benefit from, it doesn't make much more sense for us to have 100% of the revenue of this act do the same. While I like the idea of holding ourselves responsible for our carbon dioxide emissions, I don't like the idea of the tax not really funding anything. It makes no sense to tax just for the sake of taxing.

That being said, I cannot support this as currently written, and would not be willing to sign if it makes it to my desk as is.

(TL;DR yes, this is a veto threat)
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2017, 05:54:28 PM »

I object to proceeding to a final vote.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2017, 05:57:58 PM »

In the Senate there was discussion of using this to pay for the Energy Subsidy act thing that just passed. Considering we are going to be doing a budget and that is unfunded, I would recommend amending this to direct the necessary funding towards that program that it is paid for.

Just because this is being considered separately doesn't mean that is no longer an option.

meant so that it is paid for.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2017, 06:12:15 PM »
« Edited: September 26, 2017, 06:21:55 PM by Senator Scott, PPT »

The purpose of the rebate is to prevent any negative effects the tax would have on the economy.  A tax on carbon is essentially a price on carbon for its negative impact on the environment, which the market does not recognize in the way fossil fuels are priced.  The "fee-and-dividend" approach sets every individual's carbon tax proportional to their use of fossil fuels, creating an incentive to reduce, but every person's dividend is equal and independent regardless of their usage.

I really want this to pass and I am open to compromising, but certainly most of the revenues generated should be redistributed.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2017, 06:36:43 PM »

The purpose of the rebate is to prevent any negative effects the tax would have on the economy.  A tax on carbon is essentially a price on carbon for its negative impact on the environment, which the market does not recognize in the way fossil fuels are priced.  The "fee-and-dividend" approach sets every individual's carbon tax proportional to their use of fossil fuels, creating an incentive to reduce, but every person's dividend is equal and independent regardless of their usage.

I really want this to pass and I am open to compromising, but certainly most of the revenues generated should be redistributed.

I don't mind some of the revenues generated being redistributed, but I still think that portions of it should at least go to some program(s), be it fund an existing bill signed into law, go towards renewable energy research grants, or something else folks might have ideas on, I'm somewhat flexible. I just cannot agree to 100%.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2017, 06:44:31 PM »

I would recommend funding the Green Energy Subsidies Bill with this. Remember, our deficit is going to be large because we inherited the RL situation.
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vivaportugalhabs
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« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2017, 09:35:30 AM »

This will spur economic growth by putting money in the pockets of Atlasian citizens. Moreover, it encourages private investment in renewables. I don't think there's a reason to remove the rebate portion or reduce it.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2017, 09:51:16 AM »

This will spur economic growth by putting money in the pockets of Atlasian citizens. Moreover, it encourages private investment in renewables. I don't think there's a reason to remove the rebate portion or reduce it.

It's already been pointed out that we are going to end up with a large deficit. We cannot just keep throwing out money for amazing programs, and ignoring the opportunities we are given to fund them.

We already have a program where Atlasian citizens are given an incentive to invest in renewables, but it's not going to be sustainable if we can't find a way to pay for it.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2017, 03:07:14 AM »

Probably over $500 Billion dollars in deficit.
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vivaportugalhabs
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« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2017, 08:55:47 AM »

Can somebody send a link to the legislation regarding subsidies? Perhaps we can find a middle ground here.
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fhtagn
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« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2017, 09:02:56 AM »

Can somebody send a link to the legislation regarding subsidies? Perhaps we can find a middle ground here.

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=272198.msg5827072#msg5827072
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vivaportugalhabs
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« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2017, 04:39:09 PM »

Are there still subsidies going to fossil fuel companies to the tune of over $30 billion a year? We could slash half those subsidies each year and cover the rebate easily.
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2017, 06:05:07 PM »

Are there still subsidies going to fossil fuel companies to the tune of over $30 billion a year? We could slash half those subsidies each year and cover the rebate easily.
I would welcome an amendment by the representative to that effect.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2017, 02:38:48 AM »

Those numbers are total bullsh**t by the way.


The highest number I came up with was $72 billion between 2002 and 2008, which divided by six is just over $10 billion a year.

R&D for fossil fuels, is indeed $24 billion, spread over a 30 year period from 1973 to 2003.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #46 on: October 05, 2017, 01:55:53 PM »

     So what are we doing with this?
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Unconditional Surrender Truman
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« Reply #47 on: October 05, 2017, 09:50:25 PM »

I believe Senator Scott is working on an amendment to address some of the concerns raised by the president and others.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #48 on: October 05, 2017, 10:14:25 PM »

Also it appears the horribly constructed corporate tax reform bill from last year, "appears" to have eliminated the subsidies in question completely.


I say "appears" because that thing is just a mess.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2017, 03:38:01 PM »

I believe Senator Scott is working on an amendment to address some of the concerns raised by the president and others.

     I hope that amendment is forthcoming soon.
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