Is it possible to be a Christian, Jew, or Muslim and be pro-choice?

[100% pro-life no matter what]

The answer here is very clearly no, as it is against God's will to kill a baby, regardless of how liberal denominations try to spin it.

Well, I suppose someone could not be thoroughly thinking through the issue in their head and be a good Christian/Jew/Muslim (such as saying I don't think it's right, but it should be legal), but if they thought it through, they would realize that the only reason to be opposed to it is because it kills a baby (otherwise, why would we oppose it?), which means that one cannot support abortion and be a Christian/Jew/Muslim.

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

regarding the issue of abortion

its not about whether or not it is okay to kill a baby that determines peoples stance

its about whether or not a fetus is an actual baby

Obviously, people of all religions (and people who have no religion) will be against the former.

So a persons view of abortion depends on the latter, and I myself am more perplexed as to what causes such a large correlation between religion and how people feel about it than really anything else on the topic.

[Beet]

Sure. The Bible never mentions abortion, in fact the Old Testament specifically prescribes different penalties for murder and causing a woman to lose a child, with the latter carrying a lesser penalty. St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas sensibly did not think fetuses had souls before they were "animated." That is a primitive way at getting at the idea that possession of person is dependent on first consciousness, and without a chain of consciousness there is no person.

[Young Conservative]

Abortion is not a religious issue; it is an issue of science and human rights. The only thing that relates to religion about it is 'though shalt not kill," which I think is a near universal concept.

[afleitch]

Hosea prays for god's intervention to cause the women of the Ephraim miscarry which they do. He then rips open the pregnant women of Samaria and the women of Tappuah. Numbers 5 proscribes a ritual punishment which is likely an induced abortion.

But yeah.

[SNJ1985]

^ God can do whatever He wants. That doesn't mean humans can too. He is superior to us, so He can do things we can't.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Of course. It's not possible to be a Catholic or some Protestant denominations and such though.

[7,052,770]

Of course. It's not possible to be a Catholic or some Protestant denominations and such though.

This statement is in direct opposition to ones you've made about pro-choice Catholics in the past. Why the flip-flop?

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I guess it's possible that some people are very confused.  But that is because there are many Christians, Muslims, and Jews who have compromised their religious beliefs in order to fit in with the culture at large.  The fact is that Christianity came into an empire that had no problem with abortion, and Christianity then proceeded to destroy that empire's tolerance of abortion.  And the increasing tolerance for the practice is directly tied to the secularization of the West.

[Kingpoleon]

Well, I suppose someone could not be thoroughly thinking through the issue in their head and be a good Christian/Jew/Muslim, but if they thought it through, they would realize that the only reason to be supportive of gay marriage to it is because it being banned restricts rights, love, and liberty(otherwise, why would we support it?), which means that one cannot oppose gay marriage and be a Christian/Jew/Muslim.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Of course. It's not possible to be a Catholic or some Protestant denominations and such though.

This statement is in direct opposition to ones you've made about pro-choice Catholics in the past. Why the flip-flop?

Did I? Where?

I just can't comprehend how someone can be both a serious Catholic and pro-choice. That's like being someone in Scotland who's an SNP activist and campaigner who then in 2014 campaigned for the anti-independence side of the referendum.

[7,052,770]

Of course. It's not possible to be a Catholic or some Protestant denominations and such though.

This statement is in direct opposition to ones you've made about pro-choice Catholics in the past. Why the flip-flop?

Did I? Where?

I just can't comprehend how someone can be both a serious Catholic and pro-choice. That's like being someone in Scotland who's an SNP activist and campaigner who then in 2014 campaigned for the anti-independence side of the referendum.

I can't quote it because it's on the 2012 board,  but here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=161488.msg3462615#msg3462615

Your 2012 position is much more sensible. Do you really think Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Tim Kaine, Patty Murray, Kirsten Gillibrand, Catherine Cortes Mastro, Raul Grijalva, the Castro brothers, Ed Markey, Dennis Kucinich, Martin O'Malley, etc., etc., etc., are all a bunch of frauds?

Not to mention that the Catholic position on abortion is the same as most other Christian denominations, so people like Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Sheldon Whitehouse, Hillary Clinton, etc., would have to be frauds too.

[The Mikado]

I don't see why not. The Book of Exodus clearly establishes that triggering a woman's miscarriage is treated as a property offense, rather than as a murder, which indicates that a fetus is not considered a human life the same way as a born person is.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Of course. It's not possible to be a Catholic or some Protestant denominations and such though.

This statement is in direct opposition to ones you've made about pro-choice Catholics in the past. Why the flip-flop?

Did I? Where?

I just can't comprehend how someone can be both a serious Catholic and pro-choice. That's like being someone in Scotland who's an SNP activist and campaigner who then in 2014 campaigned for the anti-independence side of the referendum.

I can't quote it because it's on the 2012 board,  but here: https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=161488.msg3462615#msg3462615

Your 2012 position is much more sensible. Do you really think Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Tim Kaine, Patty Murray, Kirsten Gillibrand, Catherine Cortes Mastro, Raul Grijalva, the Castro brothers, Ed Markey, Dennis Kucinich, Martin O'Malley, etc., etc., etc., are all a bunch of frauds?

Not to mention that the Catholic position on abortion is the same as most other Christian denominations, so people like Elizabeth Warren, Cory Booker, Sheldon Whitehouse, Hillary Clinton, etc., would have to be frauds too.

It's really not the same. Other Christian denominations may not approve of abortion but you can't say that all mainline Protestant denominations take the same hardline position as the Catholic church and the most conservative evangelicals do. I've said before that I've figured that my church is obviously not too fond of abortion but makes the most focus on forgiving and accepting the woman. I've also never heard of anyone talk about trying to deny communion to a Protestant Democrat over this.

Anyway I forgot I ever made that post but there's certainly a good case to it, it's not like it's an issue I think about or concern myself with much. Really that's kind of why though I couldn't be Catholic, this just requires way too much of a disconnect and cognitive dissonance for me to accept. So "frauds"? Maybe not, but taking a position that I just can't comprehend doing myself. Remember it's not like I don't have any "cultural" connections to Catholicism, as about 1/4 my extended family is Catholic, but the cognitive dissonance it'd take to reconcile my politics and it is something I just couldn't do even if that was 100% of my extended family. So just put it beyond my understanding.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I don't know about "pro-choice", but the anti-abortion movement is a development of political Christianity only over the past few generations.

[Young Conservative]

I don't know about "pro-choice", but the anti-abortion movement is a development of political Christianity only over the past few generations.

The Pro-Life movement is based on science not religion.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I don't know about "pro-choice", but the anti-abortion movement is a development of political Christianity only over the past few generations.

The Pro-Life movement is based on science not religion.

Is that why it only exists in countries with significant influence from political Christianity? Do they not have science in Japan?

Btw, personhood is philosophical, not scientific.

[Young Conservative]

I don't know about "pro-choice", but the anti-abortion movement is a development of political Christianity only over the past few generations.

The Pro-Life movement is based on science not religion.

Is that why it only exists in countries with significant influence from political Christianity? Do they not have science in Japan?

Btw, personhood is philosophical, not scientific.

Every biology textbook will tell you that per the scientific definition of life begins at conception. The Pro-Abortion movement rejects that and declares life is philosophical and sentience is the issue. Your sarcasm is noted and disregarded.

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

https://lozierinstitute.org/a-scientific-view-of-when-life-begins/

https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/life-issues/when-human-life-begins

[Statilius the Epicurean]

I don't know about "pro-choice", but the anti-abortion movement is a development of political Christianity only over the past few generations.

The Pro-Life movement is based on science not religion.

Is that why it only exists in countries with significant influence from political Christianity? Do they not have science in Japan?

Btw, personhood is philosophical, not scientific.

Every biology textbook will tell you that per the scientific definition of life begins at conception. The Pro-Abortion movement rejects that and declares life is philosophical and sentience is the issue. Your sarcasm is noted and disregarded.

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

https://lozierinstitute.org/a-scientific-view-of-when-life-begins/

https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/life-issues/when-human-life-begins

Wow, you googled for a few articles to support your position and found them. I can do the same for mine, ex: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2017/04/when_does_life_begin_outside_the_christian_right_the_answer_is_over_time.html

The abortion debate is philosophical, not scientific. That's why in Europe it's only an issue in countries strongly under the influence of the Catholic Church, and not an issue at all in Asia.

[Chunk Yogurt for President!]

I don't know about "pro-choice", but the anti-abortion movement is a development of political Christianity only over the past few generations.

The Pro-Life movement is based on science not religion.

Is that why it only exists in countries with significant influence from political Christianity? Do they not have science in Japan?

Btw, personhood is philosophical, not scientific.

Every biology textbook will tell you that per the scientific definition of life begins at conception. The Pro-Abortion movement rejects that and declares life is philosophical and sentience is the issue. Your sarcasm is noted and disregarded.

https://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/articles/embryoquotes2.html

https://lozierinstitute.org/a-scientific-view-of-when-life-begins/

https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/life-issues/when-human-life-begins

Wow, you googled for a few articles to support your position and found them. I can do the same for mine, ex: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2017/04/when_does_life_begin_outside_the_christian_right_the_answer_is_over_time.html

The abortion debate is philosophical, not scientific. That's why in Europe it's only an issue in countries strongly under the influence of the Catholic Church, and not an issue at all in Asia.

IIRC most Asian countries have stricter abortion laws than the US.

[RINO Tom]

Yeah, let me explain how:

Step One: Be a Christian.

Step Two: Decide that you're pro-choice on the issue of abortion.

[Blackacre]

Yeah, let me explain how:

Step One: Be a Christian. (or Jew, or Muslim)

Step Two: Decide that you're pro-choice on the issue of abortion.

slight fix but otherwise yes and thank you

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Don't know enough about Jews or Muslims to answer that part. On Christians:

Depends on denomination. For the UCC and Methodist types who take most of the Bible in an allegorical sense, likely yes. For those who tend to take the Bible literally, likely no. I'm not going to play God here and try to declare either side "not really saved" or whatever, sorry. FWIW, my opposition to abortion would not go away even if I stopped believing in God.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

Depends on denomination. For the UCC and Methodist types who take most of the Bible in an allegorical sense, likely yes. For those who tend to take the Bible literally, likely no.

Except that in the Bible God makes women miscarry, outlines his own abortion procedure in Numbers and in Exodus considers a foetus less than a person under the Law.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Yes, of course. Abortion in one form or another (ie herbs that would induce miscarriage, abdominal pressure, etc) has existed since antiquity and wasn't particularly controversial until the 19th century.