Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem

[Badger]

Somehow I feel like the free speech brigade will have a lot less to say about this

I haven't seen the right attack Caepernick's right to do what he did, but rather defend the NFL's right to effectively blacklist him. Free speech has consequences that can't be regulated. No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

You really don't understand how literally mccarthyist that is? I mean, as in a literal definition?

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Somehow I feel like the free speech brigade will have a lot less to say about this

I haven't seen the right attack Caepernick's right to do what he did, but rather defend the NFL's right to effectively blacklist him. Free speech has consequences that can't be regulated. No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

You really don't understand how literally mccarthyist that is? I mean, as in a literal definition?

So, the League shouldn't look out for their own interests and then piss on their fans? Sounds like a good business model to me!

[JA]

What's laudable about being patriotic?

What country would you feel patriotic in?

None. I don't care about that nonsense.

When it becomes impossible to tell the differance between real Antifa and parody Antifa:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://twitter.com/AntifaBoston/status/898958986824777728

BTW, since you're calling yourself Jacobin, you do understand that the Jacobins viewed themselves as extremely patriotic? Have you read the lyrics of the Marsellaise?

They were also largely representatives of a bourgeois movement. Yes, I know. I made this username a while ago when my politics were a bit less leftwing.

[Kringla Heimsins]

What's laudable about being patriotic?

What country would you feel patriotic in?

None. I don't care about that nonsense.

When it becomes impossible to tell the differance between real Antifa and parody Antifa:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://twitter.com/AntifaBoston/status/898958986824777728

BTW, since you're calling yourself Jacobin, you do understand that the Jacobins viewed themselves as extremely patriotic? Have you read the lyrics of the Marsellaise?

They were also largely representatives of a bourgeois movement. Yes, I know. I made this username a while ago when my politics were a bit less leftwing.

To be honest, the Jacobins were a very diverse movement, and if most of them were bourgeois, that didn't prevent them from being the vanguard of the Révolution's most radical advancements. Patriotism was, at the time where France was the only revolutionary country in Europe, something that had a different significance than today. Not that it makes it a bad thing today... Did you know that the Marseillaise was widely sung by all the revolutionaries in Russia, and it was even the USSR's first anthem ? The core idea of Patriotism is to put la Patrie (Homeland, or Fatherland) above the personal interests of the elite (yesterday the nobility, today the bankers). The Jacobins often call themselves Patriots for this reason, and the rallying cry of the young Republic was La Patrie est en danger, i.e. the Homeland is in danger.

Sorry for getting off-topic but this is a subject that matters for me!

[HisGrace]

Somehow I feel like the free speech brigade will have a lot less to say about this

I haven't seen the right attack Caepernick's right to do what he did, but rather defend the NFL's right to effectively blacklist him. Free speech has consequences that can't be regulated. No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

Okay, but then why was there so much complaining about Google removing Stormfront/Daily Stormer, CVille protesters losing their jobs, alt-right figures getting banned on Twitter, exc, exc, exc..

[HisGrace]

Since Auschwitz survivors opinions on Trump came up in this thread, I found this, from an actual Auschwitz survivor-

http://people.com/human-interest/auschwitz-survivor-compares-u-s-neo-nazi-extremism-to-the-worst-moment-of-my-life/

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I think that's a bit hyperbolic, but you wanted an actual Holocaust survivor's opinion. There are way more articles like that out there of Holocaust survivors strongly denouncing Trump.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump is more upset about this topic then a skinheadcramming his car into peaceful protestors and killing someone. Let that sink in

Sums it up

I don't believe this is the case, but Trump has not prevented this from appearing to be the case to some.  He really doesn't need to talk about this issue at rallies, and I've got to admit that I'm amazed that he can't see how tone deaf he is on these issues.

Kaepernick is an idiot; he's been hoodwinked by his anti-American girlfriend into becoming an SJW on steroids.  He doesn't have a job for one reason; he's not good enough to be the guy who's the focus of media attention on his team.  And that's something he did to himself. 

I don't much care one way or the other what Kaepernick, or any other jock, does for the Anthem, but I know the owners care and I know the fans care.  I'm not a big fan of the idea of creating opportunities for people to stand for anthems, say the Pledge of Allegiance just so someone hosting an event can appear patriotic, but the National Anthem is a long-held feature of sporting events in America.  Most fans are fine with it, and most fans are not fine with folks taking a knee, especially when it's mixed with the "America is racist!" rhetoric that is grossly unfair to the vast majority of Americans. 

The biggest fault I find with what Kaepernick is doing is that if I'm not going to just write him off as flat-out anti-American and take him seriously, I can't avoid the fact that his gesture is taking his anger out on the wrong folks.  If his beef is with police and law enforcement, than why is he kneeling for a gesture that, in no small measure, is a gesture of honor for our military?  The military is the most thoroughly integrated institution in America, and the vast majority of football fans are either veterans or folks with vets as a family member; could he not see what a slap his actions are to those folks?  Kaepernick sympathizes with folks who don't want to have to look at the disrespectful Confederate monuments, and he has a point, but folks who come to football stadiums or pay for cable TV have to watch his offensive gesture in a situation where folks want a respite for all that.

And, yes, owners have every right to fire someone for kneeling if it's in their contracts.  And, yes, owners have the right to expect players to adhere to standards of conduct.  Going on a talk show and discussing police brutality on your time is one thing; creating a situation that makes uncomfortable paying customers is another.  That's not "free speech"; that's offensive conduct.  Kaepernick isn't out of a job for the views he holds; he's out of a job for diminishing his employers' product while lacking the judgment to recognize that this was what he was doing.



 

[TheSaint250]

Somehow I feel like the free speech brigade will have a lot less to say about this

I haven't seen the right attack Caepernick's right to do what he did, but rather defend the NFL's right to effectively blacklist him. Free speech has consequences that can't be regulated. No one forced Collin Caepernick to make himself toxic.

Okay, but then why was there so much complaining about Google removing Stormfront/Daily Stormer, CVille protesters losing their jobs, alt-right figures getting banned on Twitter, exc, exc, exc..

I don’t remember hearing widespread complaining about this. They’re all horrible people.

[JA]

What's laudable about being patriotic?

What country would you feel patriotic in?

None. I don't care about that nonsense.

When it becomes impossible to tell the differance between real Antifa and parody Antifa:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://twitter.com/AntifaBoston/status/898958986824777728

BTW, since you're calling yourself Jacobin, you do understand that the Jacobins viewed themselves as extremely patriotic? Have you read the lyrics of the Marsellaise?

They were also largely representatives of a bourgeois movement. Yes, I know. I made this username a while ago when my politics were a bit less leftwing.

To be honest, the Jacobins were a very diverse movement, and if most of them were bourgeois, that didn't prevent them from being the vanguard of the Révolution's most radical advancements. Patriotism was, at the time where France was the only revolutionary country in Europe, something that had a different significance than today. Not that it makes it a bad thing today... Did you know that the Marseillaise was widely sung by all the revolutionaries in Russia, and it was even the USSR's first anthem ? The core idea of Patriotism is to put la Patrie (Homeland, or Fatherland) above the personal interests of the elite (yesterday the nobility, today the bankers). The Jacobins often call themselves Patriots for this reason, and the rallying cry of the young Republic was La Patrie est en danger, i.e. the Homeland is in danger.

Sorry for getting off-topic but this is a subject that matters for me!

I apologize for oversimplifying the issue; I was in a bit of a hurry when I wrote that. What you said is correct and I have very little to add to it. All I'll say is that the French Revolution was a bourgeois revolution that had more radically egalitarian and proto-Socialist elements, some of which were manifest in the Jacobins. They were rightfully inspirational figures, as was the French Revolution, for later Socialist movements. So, while the Jacobins were largely bourgeois and patriotic, which I renounce, the revolutionary elements were inspirational to me as well, but I've progressed further left and, hence, why an association with them is a bit unfitting now.

~ Skip ~

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Donald Trump is a fascist piece of s**t for saying that they should be fired. I suddenly have the urge to go burn the American flag.

They're all anti-American.

See...the reason I hate liberals is that the only thing they like about America is the right America gives them to say how much they don't like America.

9/11 is my favorite holiday.

Football is just a bunch of guys running into each other.  Gay.

Apple pie is for queers.

The terrorists won.

I say "happy holidays."

[OSR stands with Israel]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

[Wakie77]

All this outrage about the National Anthem.  Can anyone on here honestly say they haven't been to multiple professional sports events where some idiot yells out something like "Let's go <insert name of home team>" during the anthem?  But is anyone calling for them to be fired or even kicked out of the stadium/arena?

[7,052,770]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

In college football, at least in games I've been to, they do the national anthem before the teams run out onto the field. The NFL could do that and this would never be an issue again.

[ProudModerate2]

Oakland A's catcher Bruce Maxwell became the first Major League Baseball player to kneel during the national anthem, according to the San Francisco Chronicle's Susan Slusser.

Tweet = A's catcher Bruce Maxwell is kneeling for the National Anthem. He's the  first MLB player to do so. Maxwell has hand on heart, facing flag

See image here : http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2734803-athletics-catcher-bruce-maxwell-becomes-1st-mlb-player-to-kneel-for-anthem?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

MODERATE COMPROMISE!!

[Illiniwek]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

MODERATE COMPROMISE!!

"By all means you should feel free to protest, but make sure you are hidden away so no one can see you..."

[OSR stands with Israel]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

MODERATE COMPROMISE!!

"By all means you should feel free to protest, but make sure you are hidden away so no one can see you..."

That's the whole point , as the on field protest  is causing major problems for the NFL and they need to move on from this issue asap .

[publicunofficial]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

MODERATE COMPROMISE!!

"By all means you should feel free to protest, but make sure you are hidden away so no one can see you..."

That's the whole point , as the on field protest  is causing major problems for the NFL and they need to move on from this issue asap .

Outside of angry internet commenters, not really.

[OSR stands with Israel]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

MODERATE COMPROMISE!!

"By all means you should feel free to protest, but make sure you are hidden away so no one can see you..."

That's the whole point , as the on field protest  is causing major problems for the NFL and they need to move on from this issue asap .

Outside of angry internet commenters, not really.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games

 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/petition-calls-nfl-boycott-if-kaepernick-doesn-t-play-n790866

[publicunofficial]

The NFL's "Horrible low ratings" are still the most watched thing on TV, still miles ahead of the NBA. And if the #AllLivesMatter crowd boycotting the NFL is making in impact on ratings, it's just a fraction of the losses along with people turned off by the NFL's handling of various other scandals, or people cutting their cable, or people who've learned that the NFL doesn't get really worth watching until mid December.

[pbrower2a]

Now what about the issue of religious freedom?

Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to salute any national flag on grounds that such is idolatrous. Such is not a mainstream view of patriotism, but at the least I can understand how people come up with such an interpretation. The line between patriotism as a benign and a malign activity isn't clear. 

[Fuzzy Bear]

I think this is the best compromise


If you don't want to stand for the national anthem ,that's ok but you have to stay in the locker room during the anthem .

MODERATE COMPROMISE!!

"By all means you should feel free to protest, but make sure you are hidden away so no one can see you..."

That's the whole point , as the on field protest  is causing major problems for the NFL and they need to move on from this issue asap .

Outside of angry internet commenters, not really.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/20171611/national-anthem-protests-no-1-reason-viewers-tuned-nfl-games

 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/petition-calls-nfl-boycott-if-kaepernick-doesn-t-play-n790866

Does an employee of a private concern have the right, on the job, to act in a manner where their on-the-job conduct will be viewed as offensive by most customers?  

Kaepernick's gesture is a statement to everyone watching that "America is Racist".  This is rightfully offensive to millions of Americans, most of whom are not racist, and most of whom believe that America is not only a GREAT nation, but a GOOD nation as well.

America is not a PERFECT nation, but it is a more INTROSPECTIVE nation than any other I can think of.  I don't see Saudi Arabia, Iran, Mexico, El Salvador, Cuba, China, Russia, et al, as being places where national leaders ponder seriously how they treat their own.  America DOES do that.  

The problems Mr. Kaepernick professes to be an expert on are problems in America; in other places, they are a way of life.  They are problems, to be sure, but the rates of crime among blacks, relative to the rest of the population is a problem as well.  And the Kaepernicks of the world never acknowledge the false narratives; the "Hands up!  Don't shoot!" falsehood of Ferguson, MO, which began with witnesses willingly lying, is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The fact that Michael Brown had just committed a strong-arm robbery is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The fact that Michael Brown failed to comply with the LAWFUL instructions of a police officcer is never mentioned by Kaepernick.  The aspect of Mr. Kaepernick that offends me is not his positions or his kneeling; it's his crass intellectual dishonesty on such a divisive issue.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Now what about the issue of religious freedom?

Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to salute any national flag on grounds that such is idolatrous. Such is not a mainstream view of patriotism, but at the least I can understand how people come up with such an interpretation. The line between patriotism as a benign and a malign activity isn't clear. 

I agree that the most valuable freedoms that our Nation guarantees are the NEGATIVE freedoms.  The freedom to not be compelled to say what is NOT on your mind.  The freedom to not be compelled to submit to gestures and rituals that you DON'T believe in.  The freedom to be a Refusenik, a nay-sayer, a non-conformist in ways that don't affect the rights of others. 

Employment in the NFL isn't a right, however.  It's a  privilege.  Rights are things that involve just me; privileges are things I get to do if someone else agrees to it as well.

It is one thing to compel the Pledge of Allegiance in public school.  Kids are compelled to go there; they should not be compelled to say the Pledge, and they should not be shamed or criticized for not doing so.  That's not true of private schools, however, and it's not true of NFL games, either.  And it's not true when the motive Kaepernick gives is one of pure politics.  Many folks in many occupations are not allowed to discuss politics in the workplace for the sake of business.  This is to ensure that political disagreements don't get in the way of the conduct of business.

 

[Dr. Arch]

[Comrade Funk]

The same people who whine about political correctness are offended at peaceful protests. Go figure.