Trump: NFL should fire players who kneel during anthem

[MasterJedi]

The Chicago Bears, a classy organization, stood shoulder to shoulder today for the anthem.  The Pittsburgh Steelers should be forced to forfeit the game for their actions.  Fortunately, karma is in Soldier Field today, and its not in the Steeler's favor.

Yep, karma got them.  Good.  The only guy I feel bad for is Villanueva.  Like most heroes, he stands alone.

Yes, it was karma, not a team that struggled the last two weeks but won against a team that played decent the last two weeks and finally got hot.

[Wakie77]

Gotta give Trump credit for at least 1 thing ... no one is talking about the fact that Puerto Rico is STILL without power, that North Korea is threatening nuclear war, or that Trump clearly was lying during the campaign when he claimed he had a healthcare plan.

[Badger]

It's neat how this is a reverse of the usual "But that's why Trump won" argument.

"If you wern't being such thin-skinned snowflakes, we would never have kneeled during the anthem!"

Also:

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.

WTF? What you said was basically what many Americans believed about Japanese-Americans before the government forced them into internment camps.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

26% of younger American Muslims believe suicide bombings are justified.  (Pew Research)

19% of American Muslims believe violence is justified in attempts to establish Sharia Law.  (Pew  Research)

20% of American Muslims believe violence is justified to advance the cause of Islam.  (Pew Research)

33% of American Muslims believe Sharia Law should be superior to the Constitution.  (CSP Poll)

49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first", 26% American first.  (Pew Research)

21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.  (Pew Research)

This is from polls conducted by public research firms, not information from conversations with Trump Rally attendees.  

FB, here's a pro tip. Don't take your stats for me website specifically drawn up to explain why Muslims are in fact the exception rule for peaceful religions and why they should be kept out. They just might be a Teensy bit slanted.

Go ahead and Google Pew research views American Muslims. Just in the last 2 months you'll find some of the following

If memory serves, 84% of American Muslims believe it is wrong to kill civilians to advance a political government goal. That compares to only approximately 67% of non Muslim Americans. In other words good old Americans like you and me, FB, are willing to accept collateral damage from drone strikes and bombing raids at a much higher rate than Muslim Americans are willing to tolerate suicide bombers.

A majority of American Muslims believe that the teachings of the Koran must be reinterpreted 4 modern day circumstances. Kind of ironic that you're willing to both impose the worst versions of a littlest interpretation of the Bible on secular society, just as you're willing to and turf with the worst verses of the Quran strictly against Muslim Americans to a degree that even they do not.

The percentage of American Muslims who believe that more than one version or teaching of Islam is acceptable as a post only the traditional interpretation of Islam is comprable to the same percentage of American Christians who believe the same, in the low 60 percentile range. Again, rather ironic considering you are in the minority there as well.

Finally, 92%-- let that number sink in-- 92% of American Muslims say they are proud to be American. Given all the shenanigans going on with the various sports teams protests, I wouldn't be surprised that number was lower among the non-muslim American population.

Again, choose your statistics source from a more legit vendor. It might actually change your views

[publicunofficial]

If you hear a person is protesting racism and your response is "Why are they protesting against America?", you are kinda giving yourself away there.

[cvparty]

If you hear a person is protesting racism and your response is "Why are they protesting against America?", you are kinda giving yourself away there.

it's not that unequivocal

[Dr. Arch]

[BoAtlantis]

33% of Americans cannot name a single branch of the government.
37% of Americans cannot name a single right given by the First Amendment.

I can bet a significant % of Americans cannot draw the American flag, and also do not know the full lyrics to the anthem.

If you were a true patriot, you'd start with helping Americans become more knowledgeable about our country's constitution, history and rights as citizens, instead of focusing on boycotts over players whose ideologies run counter to yours.

[Santander]

I can bet a significant % of Americans cannot draw the American flag, and also do not know the full lyrics to the anthem.

Full lyrics as in the entirety of The Star-Spangled Banner, or just the first stanza that is normally sung?

Singapore has a national anthem that most of the population literally doesn't even understand the words to. (although "patriotism" is a strange thing when it comes to Singapore)

[BoAtlantis]

I can bet a significant % of Americans cannot draw the American flag, and also do not know the full lyrics to the anthem.

Full lyrics as in the entirety of The Star-Spangled Banner, or just the first stanza that is normally sung?

Singapore has a national anthem that most of the population literally doesn't even understand the words to. (although "patriotism" is a strange thing when it comes to Singapore)

Full lyrics.

I believe India also asks kids to recite its pledge and sing its anthem, according to my Indian roommate in college. I had to do it in South Korea, my home country. Seems to be a thing with Asian countries, which are more socially conservative.

Socially liberal countries, especially that of the advanced world do not ask their citizens of this.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The US national anthem should be changed to America the Beautiful, anyway. Star-Spangled Banner is a horrible dirge.

[emailking]

I can bet a significant % of Americans cannot draw the American flag, and also do not know the full lyrics to the anthem.

Full lyrics as in the entirety of The Star-Spangled Banner, or just the first stanza that is normally sung?

Singapore has a national anthem that most of the population literally doesn't even understand the words to. (although "patriotism" is a strange thing when it comes to Singapore)

Full lyrics.

Well yes. Probably close to 100% do not know the full lyrics or even know there are more lyrics. This isn't really in the same ballpark as your other examples.

[Green Line]

Little Ben Roth is now backing down.  He realizes his mistake. 

[The Free North]

Indeed. How quickly we forget..

[KingSweden]

The US national anthem should be changed to America the Beautiful, anyway. Star-Spangled Banner is a horrible dirge.

Seriously! America the Beautiful even sounds like a national anthem, not a poem with an awkwardly retrofitted tune

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

It's neat how this is a reverse of the usual "But that's why Trump won" argument.

"If you wern't being such thin-skinned snowflakes, we would never have kneeled during the anthem!"

Also:

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.

WTF? What you said was basically what many Americans believed about Japanese-Americans before the government forced them into internment camps.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

26% of younger American Muslims believe suicide bombings are justified.  (Pew Research)

19% of American Muslims believe violence is justified in attempts to establish Sharia Law.  (Pew  Research)

20% of American Muslims believe violence is justified to advance the cause of Islam.  (Pew Research)

33% of American Muslims believe Sharia Law should be superior to the Constitution.  (CSP Poll)

49% of Muslim-Americans say they are "Muslim first", 26% American first.  (Pew Research)

21% of Muslim-Americans say there is a fair to great amount of support for Islamic extremism in their community.  (Pew Research)

This is from polls conducted by public research firms, not information from conversations with Trump Rally attendees.  

FB, here's a pro tip. Don't take your stats for me website specifically drawn up to explain why Muslims are in fact the exception rule for peaceful religions and why they should be kept out. They just might be a Teensy bit slanted.

Go ahead and Google Pew research views American Muslims. Just in the last 2 months you'll find some of the following

If memory serves, 84% of American Muslims believe it is wrong to kill civilians to advance a political government goal. That compares to only approximately 67% of non Muslim Americans. In other words good old Americans like you and me, FB, are willing to accept collateral damage from drone strikes and bombing raids at a much higher rate than Muslim Americans are willing to tolerate suicide bombers.

A majority of American Muslims believe that the teachings of the Koran must be reinterpreted 4 modern day circumstances. Kind of ironic that you're willing to both impose the worst versions of a littlest interpretation of the Bible on secular society, just as you're willing to and turf with the worst verses of the Quran strictly against Muslim Americans to a degree that even they do not.

The percentage of American Muslims who believe that more than one version or teaching of Islam is acceptable as a post only the traditional interpretation of Islam is comprable to the same percentage of American Christians who believe the same, in the low 60 percentile range. Again, rather ironic considering you are in the minority there as well.

Finally, 92%-- let that number sink in-- 92% of American Muslims say they are proud to be American. Given all the shenanigans going on with the various sports teams protests, I wouldn't be surprised that number was lower among the non-muslim American population.

Again, choose your statistics source from a more legit vendor. It might actually change your views

My view is that we need lower levels of immigration in general, regardless of country of origin.  And those we let in ought to be fully vetted, including vetting as to issues of philosophy.  I don't care about race or ethnicity.  I care very much about one's commitment to liberal democracy and a republican form of government.  

I don't believe Americans ought to allow folks who do not agree with the concept of liberal democracy and individual liberties to emigrate to America, or to come to America and birth children here who will be raised to oppose liberal democracy and individual liberty.  This is not a "Muslim" issue, but it is not unfair to say that Muslims who support a Caliphate are not compatible with the sort of Constitutional freedoms and rights that I would assume most here seek to uphold.  The time to ask these questions is before someone is allowed to emigrate.

This issue is more complicated than most folks realize.  I don't care if I wake up someday and find myself as a racial or religious minority.  I do care if I wake up someday and find out that a new majority of Americans have used democracy to end liberty.  Every Iron Curtain Communist regime was installed in elections; this can certainly happen in America if enough things went wrong.

 

[Mr. Illini]

The Chicago Bears, a classy organization, stood shoulder to shoulder today for the anthem.  The Pittsburgh Steelers should be forced to forfeit the game for their actions.  Fortunately, karma is in Soldier Field today, and its not in the Steeler's favor.

Teams that linked arms (see: Bears) were showing unity in a response to Trump's attempt to divide. Owners of several teams joined them. It was a political statement.

[Green Line]

The Chicago Bears, a classy organization, stood shoulder to shoulder today for the anthem.  The Pittsburgh Steelers should be forced to forfeit the game for their actions.  Fortunately, karma is in Soldier Field today, and its not in the Steeler's favor.

Teams that linked arms (see: Bears) were showing unity in a response to Trump's attempt to divide. Owners of several teams joined them. It was a political statement.

Yes.  I didn't say otherwise.  It was a nice classy response. They stood.

[JA]

Dallas Cowboys owner Jerry Jones, players lock arms and kneel before national anthem as firestorm continues over Trump’s remarks

[Beet]

I never stand for the anthem for a variety of reasons one mainly being the countries views on Arabs and Muslims. And guess what, it's perfectly my right as an American to do that. It's not unamerican as the TRIGGERED right claims it is.

I do not see a problem with NFL players kneeling either. It's another false outrage the President and the right have.

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.  Given the hostility these nations have toward Israel, why should it be shocking that American citizens have the attitudes some of them have toward Arab Muslims?  Should it be considered unreasonable that American citizens may have doubts as to whether or not Arab Muslims have the same loyalty to America, right or wrong, that they have?

I'll agree that there's false outrage.  But why shouldn't I question the loyalty to America someone who refuses to stand for the Anthem out of loyalty to their country of origin and a grudge against American citizens who support, say, Trump's immigration ban?  Is America YOUR country?  Or is it just where you live?  

That's a real important question because we are NOT a nation bound by "blood and soil" as most nations of the world are.  If we are a nation where significant blocs of its CITIZENS have divided loyalties, let alone a primary loyalty to another nation, ethnic group, religious sect, etc, than what becomes of our experiment in self-government?  How can America function as a nation when one group or another are preoccupied with its ethnic and racial grievances (however justified) to the point where their loyalty to America is conditional?  What one has a right to do or not do is an entirely different question than the question of what attitudes on the part of American citizens are necessary in order for our continuing experiment in self-government and individual liberty to be successful.  When I was young, I thought this unimportant; even authoritarian, but as history has unfolded, I recognize that for America to work, its citizens have to be committed to its success, even over the perceived interest of their own groups of which they consider themselves members of.  

Look at the beam in your own eye? Your candidate literally egged on a foreign military intelligence attack on US citizens, and insulted our own country's civil servants, endangering their lives in the process. If he had loyalty to America, he would not have done that, regardless of partisan politics, and you forfeited the right to talk about "loyalty" when you supported him after his remarks.

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

I've been thinking about this whole issue for several days now.  Could I be wrong?  It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

I feel progressively uncomfortable with Trump's injection of himself into this issue.  There's the issue of a President urging private employers to fire folks for doing something he doesn't agree with.  Even given the inflammatory nature of what the kneelers are doing, what Trump is doing is quite the push of the envelope.  And calling them "sons of bitches" is very much beneath the Presidency.

I don't buy the idea that those who kneel are "respectful".  They are contemptuous of America, and they have been caught at that.  Think about it; if you didn't stand in Court when the bailiff said "All rise!", you'd be held in contempt.  Kneeling in protest of a Judge's decision would not be considered respectful, and rightfully so.  The next time you appeared in Court, you'd probably be needing your checkbook and a toothbrush.  In spirit, I see the kneelers as the same; contemptuous of America until they can remake it in the image they wish to remake it in.  

But I have come around to think that there is something un-American about the way Trump is going about this.  Mike Pence would react to this by saying, "This is what freedom looks like and sounds like." and leave the repercussions to the owners (if there were to be repercussions) without comment.  The kneelers are anti-American, and I've got a closed mind on that.  But using leverage to get folks fired is un-American, if sensibilities are offended, the free market can handle this issue.  I will say that it's hard for me to see how Trump is going to be able to use his incumbency to bring folks together even in the face of Rocket Man having a bigger meltdown than he's already had.

[Fuzzy Says: "Abolish NPR!"]

I never stand for the anthem for a variety of reasons one mainly being the countries views on Arabs and Muslims. And guess what, it's perfectly my right as an American to do that. It's not unamerican as the TRIGGERED right claims it is.

I do not see a problem with NFL players kneeling either. It's another false outrage the President and the right have.

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.  Given the hostility these nations have toward Israel, why should it be shocking that American citizens have the attitudes some of them have toward Arab Muslims?  Should it be considered unreasonable that American citizens may have doubts as to whether or not Arab Muslims have the same loyalty to America, right or wrong, that they have?

I'll agree that there's false outrage.  But why shouldn't I question the loyalty to America someone who refuses to stand for the Anthem out of loyalty to their country of origin and a grudge against American citizens who support, say, Trump's immigration ban?  Is America YOUR country?  Or is it just where you live?  

That's a real important question because we are NOT a nation bound by "blood and soil" as most nations of the world are.  If we are a nation where significant blocs of its CITIZENS have divided loyalties, let alone a primary loyalty to another nation, ethnic group, religious sect, etc, than what becomes of our experiment in self-government?  How can America function as a nation when one group or another are preoccupied with its ethnic and racial grievances (however justified) to the point where their loyalty to America is conditional?  What one has a right to do or not do is an entirely different question than the question of what attitudes on the part of American citizens are necessary in order for our continuing experiment in self-government and individual liberty to be successful.  When I was young, I thought this unimportant; even authoritarian, but as history has unfolded, I recognize that for America to work, its citizens have to be committed to its success, even over the perceived interest of their own groups of which they consider themselves members of.  

Look at the beam in your own eye? Your candidate literally egged on a foreign military intelligence attack on US citizens, and insulted our own country's civil servants, endangering their lives in the process. If he had loyalty to America, he would not have done that, regardless of partisan politics, and you forfeited the right to talk about "loyalty" when you supported him after his remarks.

My right to question the loyalty of the kneelers isn't forfeited.  I'm going to use that right again and again. 

Trump is far more loyal to America than the kneelers.  That being said, his actions here, upon reflection are un-American.  That Colin Kaepernick is anti-American doesn't change that.

[7,052,770]

The Chicago Bears, a classy organization, stood shoulder to shoulder today for the anthem.  The Pittsburgh Steelers should be forced to forfeit the game for their actions.  Fortunately, karma is in Soldier Field today, and its not in the Steeler's favor.

Teams that linked arms (see: Bears) were showing unity in a response to Trump's attempt to divide. Owners of several teams joined them. It was a political statement.

Yes.  I didn't say otherwise.  It was a nice classy response. They stood.

So you don't care that the locking arms is the same gesture as kneeling, just PC-ified for foaming-at-the-mouth conservaflakes? It's just the literal act of kneeling that bothers you, not the protest itself?

[Green Line]

The Chicago Bears, a classy organization, stood shoulder to shoulder today for the anthem.  The Pittsburgh Steelers should be forced to forfeit the game for their actions.  Fortunately, karma is in Soldier Field today, and its not in the Steeler's favor.

Teams that linked arms (see: Bears) were showing unity in a response to Trump's attempt to divide. Owners of several teams joined them. It was a political statement.

Yes.  I didn't say otherwise.  It was a nice classy response. They stood.

So you don't care that the locking arms is the same gesture as kneeling, just PC-ified for foaming-at-the-mouth conservaflakes? It's just the literal act of kneeling that bothers you, not the protest itself?

Uhh... yeah?  Thats what most people are pissed about.  They locked arms and put their hands over their hearts..  that has literally nothing to do with disrespecting the anthem.

[Antarctic]

This may have been asked before but as a non-American can someone tell me why you would play the national anthem at a club game?Does this happen a lower levels of sport? Schools?

It would only be played in New Zealand at an international match ...that is one between countries.

[Beet]

I never stand for the anthem for a variety of reasons one mainly being the countries views on Arabs and Muslims. And guess what, it's perfectly my right as an American to do that. It's not unamerican as the TRIGGERED right claims it is.

I do not see a problem with NFL players kneeling either. It's another false outrage the President and the right have.

Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11.  And many Arab Muslims in America, at a minimum, have a degree of sympathy for Islamic Jihadists.  Given the hostility these nations have toward Israel, why should it be shocking that American citizens have the attitudes some of them have toward Arab Muslims?  Should it be considered unreasonable that American citizens may have doubts as to whether or not Arab Muslims have the same loyalty to America, right or wrong, that they have?

I'll agree that there's false outrage.  But why shouldn't I question the loyalty to America someone who refuses to stand for the Anthem out of loyalty to their country of origin and a grudge against American citizens who support, say, Trump's immigration ban?  Is America YOUR country?  Or is it just where you live?  

That's a real important question because we are NOT a nation bound by "blood and soil" as most nations of the world are.  If we are a nation where significant blocs of its CITIZENS have divided loyalties, let alone a primary loyalty to another nation, ethnic group, religious sect, etc, than what becomes of our experiment in self-government?  How can America function as a nation when one group or another are preoccupied with its ethnic and racial grievances (however justified) to the point where their loyalty to America is conditional?  What one has a right to do or not do is an entirely different question than the question of what attitudes on the part of American citizens are necessary in order for our continuing experiment in self-government and individual liberty to be successful.  When I was young, I thought this unimportant; even authoritarian, but as history has unfolded, I recognize that for America to work, its citizens have to be committed to its success, even over the perceived interest of their own groups of which they consider themselves members of.  

Look at the beam in your own eye? Your candidate literally egged on a foreign military intelligence attack on US citizens, and insulted our own country's civil servants, endangering their lives in the process. If he had loyalty to America, he would not have done that, regardless of partisan politics, and you forfeited the right to talk about "loyalty" when you supported him after his remarks.

My right to question the loyalty of the kneelers isn't forfeited.  I'm going to use that right again and again. 

Trump is far more loyal to America than the kneelers.  That being said, his actions here, upon reflection are un-American.  That Colin Kaepernick is anti-American doesn't change that.

You can, but you sound like a preacher talking about fidelity while cheating on his wife.