Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 19, 2019, 01:49:10 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Election Archive
| |-+  Election Archive
| | |-+  All Archived Boards
| | | |-+  2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls (Moderators: AndrewTX, Likely Voter)
| | | | |-+  Voter ID cut the electorate in Wisconsin
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Voter ID cut the electorate in Wisconsin  (Read 8092 times)
pbrower2a
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 19,933
United States


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: September 26, 2017, 05:02:49 pm »

Wisconsin’s voter ID law discouraged as many as 23,252 people in the state’s two largest counties from voting in last year’s presidential election, according to a new study by researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

The study, based on a survey of people in Milwaukee and Dane counties who did not vote, says the law discouraged 16,801 to 23,252 people from voting. The researchers estimated that 9,001 to 14,101 people actually were blocked from voting, based on answers from nonvoters who said the main reason they didn’t cast a ballot was because they believed they didn’t have acceptable ID.

The study adds to the debate over voter ID laws and their effects on voter turnout. Backers of the laws say they are needed to combat voter fraud. Critics say the laws are unnecessary because widespread voter fraud is not a problem. Voter ID laws make it more difficult for minorities, low-income people and the elderly to vote, opponents say.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/wisconsin-voter-id_us_59ca6e60e4b01cc57ff5bdd5?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009
Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2017, 07:32:34 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 07:35:36 pm by Acting Southern Delegate The Saint »Logged
Stranger in a strange land
strangeland
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8,136
United States


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 09:38:07 am »

The easiest solution to this is to provide free photo ID to all citizens at age 18 on request, but with an opt-out for those who don't want it.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8,741
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 11:37:38 am »

Damn. So the photo ID law prevented between 9k and 14k Trump voters from casting ballots? They should offer free IDs to the poors.
Logged
Hardline Remainer
Blairite
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,433
United States


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 12:50:43 pm »

The easiest solution to this is to provide free photo ID to all citizens at age 18 on request, but with an opt-out for those who don't want it.
Just give every citizen a passport, free of charge.
Logged
Julian Assange is a Snowflake
BRTD
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 85,365
Ukraine


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 11:47:00 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?
Logged
Hardline Remainer
Blairite
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,433
United States


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 11:53:34 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?
Exactly. And those that don't are disproportionately urban,and therefore disproportionately Democrat, and therefore disproportionately minority.
Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2017, 08:30:53 am »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 08:33:00 am by Acting Southern Delegate The Saint »Logged
marty
boshembechle
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,872


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2017, 01:10:05 pm »

Good write up explaining everything that is wrong with this study.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451968/wisconsin-voter-id-study-flawed-unreliable
Quote
The survey — which was funded with tax dollars by an elected Democrat in left-of-liberal Madison — was mailed to 2,400 people in the Democratic strongholds of Dane and Milwaukee counties who were registered but did not vote. It asked respondents why they did not vote. Very few of the people who received the survey responded, and of those did respond, about 30 said it was because they thought they lacked a proper form of ID. This number was extrapolated into the larger number with the unstated claim that almost all of them would have voted for Hillary Clinton.

Quote
Only 1.7 percent of respondents believed that they did not have an adequate photo ID, and 1.4 percent claimed to have actually been turned away at the polling place (which might have been related to ID). Put another way, the main reason for not voting cited by somewhere between 95 and 98 percent of the respondents was unrelated to the voter-ID law.

Quote
But that is not even the most fundamental problem with the breathless claims of disenfranchisement. It appears that most of those who were deterred from voting actually could have voted. The first hint of a problem is in the professors’ use of the circumlocution “deterred” in describing the impact of the voter ID-law on voters. In a statement to the media, one of the study’s authors, Professor Kenneth Mayer, went further, saying that persons who are eligible but “cannot vote because of” the voter-ID law have been “disenfranchised.” But that it is not what the survey found. According to the press release from the study, “Most of the people who said they did not vote because they lacked ID actually possessed a qualifying form of ID.” This crucial finding was omitted in many of the media reports on the survey.

Quote
The study included two questions on reasons for not voting. One question allowed people to cite multiple reasons for not voting, while the second asked people for their main reason for not voting. While blacks and low-income persons were more likely to cite a lack of voter ID as one of the reasons they did not vote, there was no statistically significant difference between those respondents and others with respect to voter ID as the main reason for not voting.

Quote
The low response rates call into question whether the respondents were representative of the larger population, and surveys asking people about their voting behavior are always problematic: Respondents tend to give answers that excuse their failure to vote.






Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2017, 06:11:08 pm »

Good write up explaining everything that is wrong with this study.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451968/wisconsin-voter-id-study-flawed-unreliable
Quote
The survey — which was funded with tax dollars by an elected Democrat in left-of-liberal Madison — was mailed to 2,400 people in the Democratic strongholds of Dane and Milwaukee counties who were registered but did not vote. It asked respondents why they did not vote. Very few of the people who received the survey responded, and of those did respond, about 30 said it was because they thought they lacked a proper form of ID. This number was extrapolated into the larger number with the unstated claim that almost all of them would have voted for Hillary Clinton.

Quote
Only 1.7 percent of respondents believed that they did not have an adequate photo ID, and 1.4 percent claimed to have actually been turned away at the polling place (which might have been related to ID). Put another way, the main reason for not voting cited by somewhere between 95 and 98 percent of the respondents was unrelated to the voter-ID law.

Quote
But that is not even the most fundamental problem with the breathless claims of disenfranchisement. It appears that most of those who were deterred from voting actually could have voted. The first hint of a problem is in the professors’ use of the circumlocution “deterred” in describing the impact of the voter ID-law on voters. In a statement to the media, one of the study’s authors, Professor Kenneth Mayer, went further, saying that persons who are eligible but “cannot vote because of” the voter-ID law have been “disenfranchised.” But that it is not what the survey found. According to the press release from the study, “Most of the people who said they did not vote because they lacked ID actually possessed a qualifying form of ID.” This crucial finding was omitted in many of the media reports on the survey.

Quote
The study included two questions on reasons for not voting. One question allowed people to cite multiple reasons for not voting, while the second asked people for their main reason for not voting. While blacks and low-income persons were more likely to cite a lack of voter ID as one of the reasons they did not vote, there was no statistically significant difference between those respondents and others with respect to voter ID as the main reason for not voting.

Quote
The low response rates call into question whether the respondents were representative of the larger population, and surveys asking people about their voting behavior are always problematic: Respondents tend to give answers that excuse their failure to vote.








This is a pretty great write-up. Happy that this was addressed.
Logged
Figueira
84285
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,785


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2017, 08:39:44 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

Not everyone has a driver's license.
Logged
Figueira
84285
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,785


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2017, 08:48:31 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?
Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2017, 07:04:55 am »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.
Logged
Mr. Reactionary
blackraisin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8,741
United States


Political Matrix
E: 5.45, S: -3.35

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2017, 09:50:32 am »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

Yes, it's an example of throwing out the baby and the bathwater. I still get annoyed anytime a smug Dem hack claims tax cuts are racist because muh Lee Atwater said they were before I was even born. People can have different motivations for supporting the same policy. Hell, Jimmy Carter recommended voter IDs in mid 00's.
Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2017, 01:10:53 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

Yes, it's an example of throwing out the baby and the bathwater. I still get annoyed anytime a smug Dem hack claims tax cuts are racist because muh Lee Atwater said they were before I was even born. People can have different motivations for supporting the same policy. Hell, Jimmy Carter recommended voter IDs in mid 00's.

Exactly
Logged
Figueira
84285
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,785


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2017, 01:41:58 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.
Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2017, 02:11:45 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.

Whatever you say.

Logged
Figueira
84285
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,785


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: September 30, 2017, 11:01:13 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.

Whatever you say.



OK. What exactly is the benefit of having voter ID laws without providing free, easy, mandatory IDs to everyone?
Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2017, 09:35:40 am »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.

Whatever you say.



OK. What exactly is the benefit of having voter ID laws without providing free, easy, mandatory IDs to everyone?

I would prefer free, easy, mandatory IDs. It limits confusion. I just don’t think Wisconsin’s is an attack of any sort.
Logged
Figueira
84285
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,785


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2017, 11:38:23 am »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.

Whatever you say.



OK. What exactly is the benefit of having voter ID laws without providing free, easy, mandatory IDs to everyone?

I would prefer free, easy, mandatory IDs. It limits confusion. I just don’t think Wisconsin’s is an attack of any sort.

You didn't answer my question.
Logged
krazen1211
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7,390


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2017, 11:51:12 am »

Step 1. File junk lawsuits against Wisconsin common sense voter ID, which was signed in 2011.
Step 2. Whine about 'confusion' created by those junk lawsuits.

Of course, as many have pointed out, most of those people mentioned actually have a proper ID already. So they are either lying or stupid.


Voter turnout went up 4% in Indiana after they strengthened the elections system by passing wonderful voter ID.

Link

Link
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 12:12:03 pm by krazen1211 »Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2017, 03:39:46 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.

Whatever you say.



OK. What exactly is the benefit of having voter ID laws without providing free, easy, mandatory IDs to everyone?

I would prefer free, easy, mandatory IDs. It limits confusion. I just don’t think Wisconsin’s is an attack of any sort.

You didn't answer my question.

It’s a step in the right direction to limiting voter fraud. Im not gonna pretend like I understand the schematics behind why there is an extremely small price for things like non-driver license ID, but it certainly isn’t to limit voter access. As I said, though, free mandatory ID would be better.
Logged
❤️❤️❤️
omegascarlet
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,691


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2017, 08:33:34 am »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.

Whatever you say.



OK. What exactly is the benefit of having voter ID laws without providing free, easy, mandatory IDs to everyone?

I would prefer free, easy, mandatory IDs. It limits confusion. I just don’t think Wisconsin’s is an attack of any sort.

You didn't answer my question.

It’s a step in the right direction to limiting voter fraud. Im not gonna pretend like I understand the schematics behind why there is an extremely small price for things like non-driver license ID, but it certainly isn’t to limit voter access. As I said, though, free mandatory ID would be better.

A small price is still enough to discourage the poor from voting, esp. when getting the ID is such a hassle.
Logged
The Saint
TheSaint250
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,802


P P
View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2017, 01:10:16 pm »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.

Whatever you say.



OK. What exactly is the benefit of having voter ID laws without providing free, easy, mandatory IDs to everyone?

I would prefer free, easy, mandatory IDs. It limits confusion. I just don’t think Wisconsin’s is an attack of any sort.

You didn't answer my question.

It’s a step in the right direction to limiting voter fraud. Im not gonna pretend like I understand the schematics behind why there is an extremely small price for things like non-driver license ID, but it certainly isn’t to limit voter access. As I said, though, free mandatory ID would be better.

A small price is still enough to discourage the poor from voting, esp. when getting the ID is such a hassle.

But again, I still fail to see how it "discourages" minorities from voting.
Logged
Figueira
84285
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,785


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: October 09, 2017, 01:08:09 am »

So why does it "discourage" people from voting?

According to this website, you can just show a driver's license to vote.  in fact, there are quite a few options.

http://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx

...

because every single person has a driver's license. WTF dude?

As I said, there are quite a few options:

-Wisconsin driver's license
-ID card issued by a U.S. uniformed service
-Wisconsin non-driver ID
-U.S. Passport
-Certificate of naturalization issued not more than 2 years before the election
-ID card issued by a federally recognized Indian tribe in WI
-Student ID card with a signature, an issue date, and an expiration date no later than 2 years after the election
-a photo ID card provided by the Veteran's Health Administration

The only one of those that's really available to everyone is the "non-driver ID" (passports cost money and people who don't travel abroad don't bother). And non-driver IDs are still a hassle to get. Also I went to a major state university and my ID from there would not pass muster according to this test. I don't know if schools in Wisconsin are different, but there are students from Wisconsin who attend out of state schools.

Also you realize that the people supporting these laws have admitted that they're doing it for partisan reasons. Why are you defending people who have actively refuted your defenses of them?

Those people are idiots.

No, they're just more honest than you.

Whatever you say.



OK. What exactly is the benefit of having voter ID laws without providing free, easy, mandatory IDs to everyone?

I would prefer free, easy, mandatory IDs. It limits confusion. I just don’t think Wisconsin’s is an attack of any sort.

You didn't answer my question.

It’s a step in the right direction to limiting voter fraud. Im not gonna pretend like I understand the schematics behind why there is an extremely small price for things like non-driver license ID, but it certainly isn’t to limit voter access. As I said, though, free mandatory ID would be better.

A small price is still enough to discourage the poor from voting, esp. when getting the ID is such a hassle.

But again, I still fail to see how it "discourages" minorities from voting.

Because getting an ID is difficult. We just went over this.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines