$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

[junior chįmp]

I'm going to die of a stroke when Democrats reclaim the chamber and Mark Warner or whoever gets on TV to talk about how they can't just pass everything they want because they have to care about the deficit.

They are simply going to heavily increase taxes on the richest people & corporations.

Depends on who becomes president in 2020. If it's Joe "billionaires are patriotic" Biden, then forget it

Biden said literally the opposite of what you posted.

Bidens decades long record in the Senate speaks for itself. Just more of the same

[Landslide Lyndon]

I'm going to die of a stroke when Democrats reclaim the chamber and Mark Warner or whoever gets on TV to talk about how they can't just pass everything they want because they have to care about the deficit.

They are simply going to heavily increase taxes on the richest people & corporations.

Depends on who becomes president in 2020. If it's Joe "billionaires are patriotic" Biden, then forget it

Biden said literally the opposite of what you posted.

Bidens decades long record in the Senate speaks for itself. Just more of the same

That's irrelevant. You lied.

[junior chįmp]

I'm going to die of a stroke when Democrats reclaim the chamber and Mark Warner or whoever gets on TV to talk about how they can't just pass everything they want because they have to care about the deficit.

They are simply going to heavily increase taxes on the richest people & corporations.

Depends on who becomes president in 2020. If it's Joe "billionaires are patriotic" Biden, then forget it

Biden said literally the opposite of what you posted.

Bidens decades long record in the Senate speaks for itself. Just more of the same

That's irrelevant. You lied.

Lied about with...Biden gets in,  Nothing changes other than tweaks to the tax code. Even Obama didn't dare raise taxes.

Bidens doing that whole, "look at me, I'm bipartisan" thing by giving a spear to the progressive base of the party. Just like when he wrote a crime bill that jailed 1 million of his own constituents

[Sestak]

I'm going to die of a stroke when Democrats reclaim the chamber and Mark Warner or whoever gets on TV to talk about how they can't just pass everything they want because they have to care about the deficit.

They are simply going to heavily increase taxes on the richest people & corporations.

Depends on who becomes president in 2020. If it's Joe "billionaires are patriotic" Biden, then forget it

Biden said literally the opposite of what you posted.

Bidens decades long record in the Senate speaks for itself. Just more of the same

That's irrelevant. You lied.

Lied about with...Biden gets in,  Nothing changes other than tweaks to the tax code. Even Obama didn't dare raise taxes.

Bidens doing that whole, "look at me, I'm bipartisan" thing by giving a spear to the progressive base of the party. Just like when he wrote a crime bill that jailed 1 million of his own constituents

Uh, what?

He didn't have 1 million constituents to jail.

[IceSpear]

I'm going to die of a stroke when Democrats reclaim the chamber and Mark Warner or whoever gets on TV to talk about how they can't just pass everything they want because they have to care about the deficit.

They are simply going to heavily increase taxes on the richest people & corporations.

Depends on who becomes president in 2020. If it's Joe "billionaires are patriotic" Biden, then forget it

Biden said literally the opposite of what you posted.

Bidens decades long record in the Senate speaks for itself. Just more of the same

That's irrelevant. You lied.

Lied about with...Biden gets in,  Nothing changes other than tweaks to the tax code. Even Obama didn't dare raise taxes.

Bidens doing that whole, "look at me, I'm bipartisan" thing by giving a spear to the progressive base of the party. Just like when he wrote a crime bill that jailed 1 million of his own constituents

Uh, what?

He didn't have 1 million constituents to jail.

Jail would probably be preferable to living in Delaware anyway.

[Virginiá]

To the people acting as if this will destroy the GOP: nobody will remember or care about this in a year. Just hope that Mueller indicts Trump a month before the midterms and the roughly 55% of the country that is remotely sane gives us a nice D wave.

I don't know about that. The SALT deduction removal could leave an opening for Democrats in dozens of suburban Republican-held districts. The tax changes on graduate programs could also have an impact on people current in college.

Americans don't always have goldfish memory for everything. Although it might depend on how Democrats integrate this into their strategy for the next 3 years.

[junior chįmp]

I'm going to die of a stroke when Democrats reclaim the chamber and Mark Warner or whoever gets on TV to talk about how they can't just pass everything they want because they have to care about the deficit.

They are simply going to heavily increase taxes on the richest people & corporations.

Depends on who becomes president in 2020. If it's Joe "billionaires are patriotic" Biden, then forget it

Biden said literally the opposite of what you posted.

Bidens decades long record in the Senate speaks for itself. Just more of the same

That's irrelevant. You lied.

Lied about with...Biden gets in,  Nothing changes other than tweaks to the tax code. Even Obama didn't dare raise taxes.

Bidens doing that whole, "look at me, I'm bipartisan" thing by giving a spear to the progressive base of the party. Just like when he wrote a crime bill that jailed 1 million of his own constituents

Uh, what?

He didn't have 1 million constituents to jail.

Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill that packed our prisons with minorities, a bill which if it had not passed would have allowed the Democrats to win every election. All of the disenfranchised felons that were stopped from voting is one of the reasons Gore lost Florida.

Biden is yesterday's news. His way of thinking is long gone in the party. We don't need presidential candidates who want bipartisanship which when Republicans hear, they  know they have a sap they can roll. Biden seems more interested in a photo op ad writing pretty speeches than actually legislating anything of substance.

[Matty]

Vox.com says this could die in conference

[IceSpear]

Vox.com says this could die in conference

Even if it does, the House would just pass the Senate bill.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill that packed our prisons with minorities, a bill which if it had not passed would have allowed the Democrats to win every election. All of the disenfranchised felons that were stopped from voting is one of the reasons Gore lost Florida.

Why do all Sanders supporters have such a tenuous relationship with the truth?

[KingSweden]

To the people acting as if this will destroy the GOP: nobody will remember or care about this in a year. Just hope that Mueller indicts Trump a month before the midterms and the roughly 55% of the country that is remotely sane gives us a nice D wave.

I don't know about that. The SALT deduction removal could leave an opening for Democrats in dozens of suburban Republican-held districts. The tax changes on graduate programs could also have an impact on people current in college.

Americans don't always have goldfish memory for everything. Although it might depend on how Democrats integrate this into their strategy for the next 3 years.

If IIRC the graduate tax changes aren’t in the Senate version, and the Senate version caps SALT deductions rather than eliminating entirely

It’s still an abortion of a bill, though.

[Silent Hunter]

Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill that packed our prisons with minorities, a bill which if it had not passed would have allowed the Democrats to win every election. All of the disenfranchised felons that were stopped from voting is one of the reasons Gore lost Florida.

And the fact that the 2016 candidate was the wife of the man who signed it in law might have had something to do with minorities not turning out.

[IceSpear]

Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill that packed our prisons with minorities, a bill which if it had not passed would have allowed the Democrats to win every election. All of the disenfranchised felons that were stopped from voting is one of the reasons Gore lost Florida.

And the fact that the 2016 candidate was the wife of the man who signed it in law might have had something to do with minorities not turning out.

That's why they supported her heavily in the primary, am I right?

[junior chįmp]

Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill that packed our prisons with minorities, a bill which if it had not passed would have allowed the Democrats to win every election. All of the disenfranchised felons that were stopped from voting is one of the reasons Gore lost Florida.

Why do all Sanders supporters have such a tenuous relationship with the truth?

Despite reservations, Mr. Biden, who has served as the Obama administration’s unofficial liaison to the law enforcement community, has not only stood by the 1994 legislation, but has also frequently taken credit for it. As recently as this spring, in an essay on community policing for a book of bipartisan reform proposals put together by the Brennan Center for Justice, Mr. Biden referred to the legislation as the “1994 Biden Crime Bill.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/22/us/politics/joe-bidens-role-in-90s-crime-law-could-haunt-any-presidential-bid.html

[junior chįmp]

Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill that packed our prisons with minorities, a bill which if it had not passed would have allowed the Democrats to win every election. All of the disenfranchised felons that were stopped from voting is one of the reasons Gore lost Florida.

And the fact that the 2016 candidate was the wife of the man who signed it in law might have had something to do with minorities not turning out.

That's why they supported her heavily in the primary, am I right?

Because they are the few left that her husband didn't jail

[jaichind]

To make things simple I am now just rooting for House to pass this bill as it and call it  a day.  A great policy victory. GOP will get hammered in 2018 but it is worth it from my point of view.  The short term stimulus would mean that Trump will head into 2020 with a solid record of economic growth and could even win re-election which would delay another 4 years from Dems trying to reverse some of this.

In what ways are huge deficit spending and further decreasing revenue thereby incurring more deficit spending a victory? This bill is sure to do that and to make the math work you need to do cuts. Republicans won't cut or streamline discretionary but will only cut non-discretionary items like SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. Those programs could remain solvent with simple fixes, not decimation.

Also, Jaichind, you DO realize the OVERWHELMING consensus of economists (outside the White House of course) are of the resolute opinion this will do little to nothing to foster greater private sector growth? Corporations are ALREADY running with record level profits, and the economy's big weakness is lack of wage growth and money being put in the middle class's hands, for which this tax bill does little to nothing.

A recent survey of 40 top economists, including conservatives, were polled as to whether this tax cut is likely to notably spur economic growth. 39 out of 40 said "no"!

But hey, you're getting your beak wet, so FTW. Amarite? It's the Jaichind way.

Hmmm.  Sorry it seems I did not do a good job communicating what I meant.  I totally agree that the long term impact of this tax plan is mixed and the jury will be out for a while on that. What I meant about the short term stimulus in the Senate plan are the a)  immediate implementation of temporary full expensing and b)  one-time low tax rate on overseas profits will lead to a surge of investments and expatriation of foreign based profits will lead to the surge of business spending in 2018 and in turn jazz up the economy in 2019 and just in time for Trump's re-election in 2020.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill that packed our prisons with minorities, a bill which if it had not passed would have allowed the Democrats to win every election. All of the disenfranchised felons that were stopped from voting is one of the reasons Gore lost Florida.

Why do all Sanders supporters have such a tenuous relationship with the truth?

Despite reservations, Mr. Biden, who has served as the Obama administration’s unofficial liaison to the law enforcement community, has not only stood by the 1994 legislation, but has also frequently taken credit for it. As recently as this spring, in an essay on community policing for a book of bipartisan reform proposals put together by the Brennan Center for Justice, Mr. Biden referred to the legislation as the “1994 Biden Crime Bill.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/22/us/politics/joe-bidens-role-in-90s-crime-law-could-haunt-any-presidential-bid.html

The vast majority of incarcerations were/are based on state laws. Clinton's crime bill didn't have a significant impact on that aspect.
You are just another Bernie Bro who doesn't know what the hell you're talking about.

[Progressive]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

[junior chįmp]

Biden wrote the 1994 crime bill that packed our prisons with minorities, a bill which if it had not passed would have allowed the Democrats to win every election. All of the disenfranchised felons that were stopped from voting is one of the reasons Gore lost Florida.

Why do all Sanders supporters have such a tenuous relationship with the truth?

Despite reservations, Mr. Biden, who has served as the Obama administration’s unofficial liaison to the law enforcement community, has not only stood by the 1994 legislation, but has also frequently taken credit for it. As recently as this spring, in an essay on community policing for a book of bipartisan reform proposals put together by the Brennan Center for Justice, Mr. Biden referred to the legislation as the “1994 Biden Crime Bill.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/22/us/politics/joe-bidens-role-in-90s-crime-law-could-haunt-any-presidential-bid.html

The vast majority of incarcerations were/are based on state laws. Clinton's crime bill didn't have a significant impact on that aspect.
You are just another Bernie Bro who doesn't know what the hell you're talking about.

Won't matter. When Hillary ran in 2016, people blamed her for losing their jobs to NAFTA even though she had nothing to do with it. Same thing will happen with Biden on top of his Senate voting record which is absolutely one of the worst

[jaichind]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

[Indy Texas]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

[GeorgiaModerate]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

Studies of past tax cuts, and informal surveys of present-day CEOs, indicate that corporate tax cuts generally do not lead to more jobs.  They primarily go to increased dividends and share buybacks.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

I'm going to die of a stroke when Democrats reclaim the chamber and Mark Warner or whoever gets on TV to talk about how they can't just pass everything they want because they have to care about the deficit.

They are simply going to heavily increase taxes on the richest people & corporations.

You have far more faith in the Democratic Party than I do. (Maybe in 10 years if the Berniecrats and fellow travellers like myself have won the Dem Civil War seems inevitable.)

[Indy Texas]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

Studies of past tax cuts, and informal surveys of present-day CEOs, indicate that corporate tax cuts generally do not lead to more jobs.  They primarily go to increased dividends and share buybacks.

(That was my point.)

[jaichind]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

Sorry.  Not sure I get your feedback.  I back this plan partly because unwinding the marriage tax penalty as  well as unwinding of federal subsidies for high tax state/local governments.  I also back it as a way to starve the beast which in turn would lead to reduction to various welfare programs.  The creation of more jobs was never a goal for me to support this plan.  I agree that on the short run there will be an economic sugar high in the corporate tax rates and lead to greater economic activity which helps Trumps re-election.  On the whole I OPPOSE this aspect of this plan since it risks higher inflation.  So not sure what any of this has to do with number of jobs or in particular industrial jobs which I guess would lead to more pollution.  Of course Trump would want people to believe that this plan will lead to more industrial jobs.  I am not sure of that and I really do not care.  The goal for me is and always will be reduction of the welfare state.