$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Uh oh, collins refuses to say she will support final bill. Says she has to wait and see.

wow, is she changing her mind?

Who knows what will come out of conference?

A pile of sh**t.

It will be a pile but even so, even if Collins and one more votes against the final bill out of cc, Pence will vote for it if it goes to 50/50.

I could see McCain voting no if he gets to be the last-minute deciding vote. 

[pbrower2a]

It's hard to talk about whether this bill could spur growth when currently we have close to full employment in the economy and our government is driving out undocumented immigrants and aiming to lower legal immigration, and where the cost of borrowing capital is close to zero. Our economy doesn't need growth to be spurred, and certainly not by favoring capital further.

It is about transferring any future growth, much income that people not already rich get, and wealth not already in the hands of the Master Class to the Master Class.   To be sure, that has largely happened; enhanced productivity has not trickled down to the working people.

Even worse: it uses tax policies to punish people whose demographics indicate tha t they would never vote for Donald Trump or the GOP in a free election. This is political economics at its worst: patronage  of supporters and punishment of opponents.  

I see the tax cuts going largely to speculative activities, further concentration of the economy, privatization of the public sector (highways are a natural monopoly), and buying further GOP control of the political process.

This fits a Marxist stereotype of capitalism. There will be more, including efforts to eviscerate labor unions so that Big Business is 'free' to drive pay to Third World levels.

[The Mikado]

Uh oh, collins refuses to say she will support final bill. Says she has to wait and see.

wow, is she changing her mind?

She's saying that because she wants to make sure the conference committee doesn't strip out the concessions the Senate bill made her.

[Santander]

Is Corker actually a solid 100% no in the future, or did McConnell only allow him to vote no since it was going to pass anyway?

Since he's retiring, and the GOP can't exactly afford to kick anyone out of their caucus, Corker's vote can't exactly be whipped by normal means. How he votes will show how much of a GOP hack he is.

[Torie]

It's hard to talk about whether this bill could spur growth when currently we have close to full employment in the economy and our government is driving out undocumented immigrants and aiming to lower legal immigration, and where the cost of borrowing capital is close to zero. Our economy doesn't need growth to be spurred, and certainly not by favoring capital further.

I think the theory is not so much about reducing the cost of capital (which as you suggest adjusted for inflation is at about a zero risk free rate), but rather inducing companies to locate more jobs here because the corporate rate is competitive with other companies. Sure unemployment in the US is low, but such a job transfer would tend to push up real wages if that is the case. One of the major issues in the US is that the Fruited Plain is awash with minimum wage jobs, which is obviously not good, particularly when the government then has to subsidize them with the earned income tax credit and so forth.

I think on this issue, most economists believe the corporate rate should be reduced to a competitive rate. So I like this aspect of the tax bill, unlike much of the balance of it.

Another idea which I mentioned before, would be to allow corporations to deduct dividend payments, with dividends then taxed on the recipient at a much higher rate than the top 23.8% current rate, perhaps at the ordinary income rate.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

[Sestak]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

Well, then, it's official. We're getting another Senate vote.

Which may be huge.

[BudgieForce]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

This is why you should take more than 2 weeks to completely restructure an entire tax system.

[junior chįmp]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

What a bunch of retards

[GeorgiaModerate]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

What a bunch of retards

They don't have the (R) after their names for nothing.

OK, you win the thread.

[Dr. Arch]

A party of incompetent and inept fools in full display.

[Sestak]

So the suggestion seems to be that they'll cut the tuition deduction to bring down the AMT. Is there any chance that that brings Collins to a No?

[Brittain33]

There are going to be any number of glitches like this. This is why you don't write massive bills like this.

[mvd10]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

FF's. Closing loopholes is a good thing .

[Sestak]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

FF's. Closing loopholes is a good thing .

But not for their donors.

[mvd10]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

FF's. Closing loopholes is a good thing .

But not for their donors.

They're standing up to their donors. True champions of the people/fiscal responsibility!

[OSR stands with Israel]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

FF's. Closing loopholes is a good thing .

[Tintrlvr]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

FF's. Closing loopholes is a good thing .

But not for their donors.

They're standing up to their donors. True champions of the people/fiscal responsibility!

Except, of course, that this was unintentional and is going to get removed/"fixed".

[mvd10]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

FF's. Closing loopholes is a good thing .

But not for their donors.

They're standing up to their donors. True champions of the people/fiscal responsibility!

Except, of course, that this was unintentional and is going to get removed/"fixed".

Yeah, I know. Would this even require a new senate vote? They can just sort this out in conference right (of course the senate has to vote for that anyway)?

[America Needs a 13-6 Progressive SCOTUS]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

FF's. Closing loopholes is a good thing .

But not for their donors.

They're standing up to their donors. True champions of the people/fiscal responsibility!

Except, of course, that this was unintentional and is going to get removed/"fixed".

Yeah, I know. Would this even require a new senate vote? They can just sort this out in conference right (of course the senate has to vote for that anyway)?

this

[Santander]

It's been a few years since I took my taxation courses, and AMT was one of the most f***ed up things we learned (basically only defended by the prof who said that anyone in the room who became a tax lawyer could thank Congress for their job), but having AMT = statutory rate is not the same thing as repealing every "loophole".

[Tintrlvr]

In their rush to pass this scam, the Senate GOP didn't realize they defacto repealed literally every corporate deduction: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/senate-gop-accidentally-killed-all-corporate-tax-deductions.html

FF's. Closing loopholes is a good thing .

But not for their donors.

They're standing up to their donors. True champions of the people/fiscal responsibility!

Except, of course, that this was unintentional and is going to get removed/"fixed".

Yeah, I know. Would this even require a new senate vote? They can just sort this out in conference right (of course the senate has to vote for that anyway)?

The Senate has to vote for any change to their bill. The plan was that the Senate wouldn't have to vote again at all because the House would just vote for the Senate bill, and the Senate bill would become law without another Senate vote. But, if they have to make any changes to the Senate bill, those changes have to go through the Senate again. Could be risky if it ends up being after the Alabama Senate election; if Doug Jones wins, Susan Collins (or someone else) might start demanding more concessions when any lone defector would sink the bill.

[rob in cal]

  Could someone summarize the main reasons why the lions share of the cuts will go to the top 1% of Americans?  I'm intrigued how that is being accomplished without significant capital gains or highest bracket rate reductions.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

House coming into session at the top of the hour. At 6:30 ET, vote on procedural motion to reject the senate amendment and go to conference. At 8:00 ET, vote on a democratic motion to change the instructions for the committee.

[Sestak]

House coming into session at the top of the hour. At 6:30 ET, vote on procedural motion to reject the senate amendment and go to conference. At 8:00 ET, vote on a democratic motion to change the instructions for the committee.

Committee? Or conference?