$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 04:32:52 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  $1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 [21] 22 23 24 25 26 ... 79
Author Topic: $1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread  (Read 109114 times)
SoLongAtlas
VirginiaModerate
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,219
United States
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #500 on: November 17, 2017, 09:06:49 AM »

Not just Climate change, in every question, College educated Republicans are giving crazy answers. Totally weird, maybe all these crazy conservative organizations in colleges & Infowars is having some effect.

To get a gist of the supposedly educated college Republican, read this from the GMU College Reps http://gmufourthestate.com/2017/10/02/patriot-politics-trump-tweets-by-gmcr/

Excerpt:

"While President Trump’s Twitter habit may concern some people, the concerning aspect of his tweeting is the media’s obsession with it. While the media is obsessing with his tweets, President Trump is accomplishing his agenda. Overreaching EPA regulations are being repealed, prototypes of the wall are being built, the U.S. has left the Paris Climate Agreement, Neil Gorsuch filled the seat vacated by the late Justice Antonin Scalia, the Keystone XL pipeline has been approved. While the media is worrying about his next tweet, President Trump is Making America Great Again."

Borderline cultish.

Praise for dubious achievements.

That's how cults and totalitarian movements operate.

It's not just that, it's that they praise bad decisions like Paris withdrawal and ditching regulations while simultaneously claiming that they are educated. Spoiled brats most likely.
Logged
DavidB.
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,612
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #501 on: November 17, 2017, 09:43:45 AM »

It's not just that, it's that they praise bad decisions like Paris withdrawal and ditching regulations while simultaneously claiming that they are educated. Spoiled brats most likely.
Because educated people are only allowed to have one opinion? Your implication being a common opinion is the reason why more and more GOP voters have a negative view of the effects of education.
Logged
MasterJedi
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,550
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #502 on: November 17, 2017, 10:13:05 AM »

It's not just that, it's that they praise bad decisions like Paris withdrawal and ditching regulations while simultaneously claiming that they are educated. Spoiled brats most likely.
Because educated people are only allowed to have one opinion? Your implication being a common opinion is the reason why more and more GOP voters have a negative view of the effects of education.

Those that are truly educated generally might know a lot but will admit they don't know everything and defer to experts. Those that aren't actually intelligent think they know everything and that they're always right, easy as that.
Logged
RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,999
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #503 on: November 17, 2017, 10:14:14 AM »

They also need to use the "TAX RAISERS!" clubs to knock Costello and Meehan and Fitzpatrick too. I can almost see the suburban ship wreck in the distance

I can already smell the young suburban Democratic professionals Smiley.

But honestly, I don't think this tax plan will be the main cause of the coming suburban curbstomping (it's coming though Smiley). Even most VA-10, IL-06 or NJ-07 voters would see a tax cut. The problem is that the media has been covering this as if everyone in a high tax state would pay more in taxes, which isn't true.

RIP Graduate Students, Research Programs, and Higher Education/Professionalization institutions in this country if this passes.

Music to the GOP's ears.

They want more racist uneducated hicks and less grad students. Please and thank you.

We don't take kindly to no fancy, high-falutin Yankee book-learnin'! - 2/3rds of the GOP

45% of Trump voters has a college degree tho.

Yeah, and a number of those voters are RINO Toms who think the GOP is something it isn't.

LOL, just because I reject some of your more insane hyperbole and find your style unbecoming and annoying doesn't mean I don't think there is any validity in some of your thoughts on *trends*.  Heck, I hope the GOP gets slaughtered in the suburbs; it would serve as a nice wakeup call.  Also, registering with a party and having your own, independent views doesn't necessarily mean that you think everyone in the party is exactly like you ... neither does pointing out that not all Republicans fit YOUR stereotypes, either.
Logged
Santander
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,849
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: 4.00, S: 2.61


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #504 on: November 17, 2017, 10:19:10 AM »

Also, registering with a party and having your own, independent views doesn't necessarily mean that you think everyone in the party is exactly like you ... neither does pointing out that not all Republicans fit YOUR stereotypes, either.

Not all... just 90%.
Logged
RI
realisticidealist
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 14,713


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #505 on: November 17, 2017, 10:20:18 AM »

Not just Climate change, in every question, College educated Republicans are giving crazy answers. Totally weird, maybe all these crazy conservative organizations in colleges & Infowars is having some effect.

To get a gist of the supposedly educated college Republican, read this from the GMU College Reps http://gmufourthestate.com/2017/10/02/patriot-politics-trump-tweets-by-gmcr/

Excerpt:

"While President Trump’s Twitter habit may concern some people, the concerning aspect of his tweeting is the media’s obsession with it. While the media is obsessing with his tweets, President Trump is accomplishing his agenda. Overreaching EPA regulations are being repealed, prototypes of the wall are being built, the U.S. has left the Paris Climate Agreement, Neil Gorsuch filled the seat vacated by the late Justice Antonin Scalia, the Keystone XL pipeline has been approved. While the media is worrying about his next tweet, President Trump is Making America Great Again."

Borderline cultish.

George Mason is an Austrian heterodox bubble.
Logged
136or142
Adam T
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,434
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #506 on: November 17, 2017, 10:25:52 AM »
« Edited: November 17, 2017, 10:27:25 AM by 136or142 »

It's not just that, it's that they praise bad decisions like Paris withdrawal and ditching regulations while simultaneously claiming that they are educated. Spoiled brats most likely.
Because educated people are only allowed to have one opinion? Your implication being a common opinion is the reason why more and more GOP voters have a negative view of the effects of education.

It's not an issue of contrasting opinions, it's an issue that not all opinions are equal or valid/sound.  In my opinion the twin ideas that 'people are entitled to their opinion' and 'all opinions are equal' is the most destructive idea to emerge from the concept of egalitarian democracy.

I agree with Isaac Asimov on this:
“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”

I suppose one can argue over whether the Paris Accord is the best way to address Anthropogenic Global Warming (Climate Change) but there is no credible argument opposing the reality of anthropogenic global warming (climate change.)
Logged
RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,999
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #507 on: November 17, 2017, 10:30:23 AM »

Also, registering with a party and having your own, independent views doesn't necessarily mean that you think everyone in the party is exactly like you ... neither does pointing out that not all Republicans fit YOUR stereotypes, either.

Not all... just 90%.

Agree to disagree. Smiley
Logged
DavidB.
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,612
Israel


Political Matrix
E: 0.58, S: 4.26


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #508 on: November 17, 2017, 10:45:43 AM »

It's not just that, it's that they praise bad decisions like Paris withdrawal and ditching regulations while simultaneously claiming that they are educated. Spoiled brats most likely.
Because educated people are only allowed to have one opinion? Your implication being a common opinion is the reason why more and more GOP voters have a negative view of the effects of education.

Those that are truly educated generally might know a lot but will admit they don't know everything and defer to experts. Those that aren't actually intelligent think they know everything and that they're always right, easy as that.
This isn't about "knowing a lot". This is about having a political opinion. Shocker for some Democrats, but opinions can and do differ even among "educated" people, and that is perfectly legitimate.
Logged
136or142
Adam T
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,434
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #509 on: November 17, 2017, 10:57:23 AM »

It's not just that, it's that they praise bad decisions like Paris withdrawal and ditching regulations while simultaneously claiming that they are educated. Spoiled brats most likely.
Because educated people are only allowed to have one opinion? Your implication being a common opinion is the reason why more and more GOP voters have a negative view of the effects of education.

Those that are truly educated generally might know a lot but will admit they don't know everything and defer to experts. Those that aren't actually intelligent think they know everything and that they're always right, easy as that.
This isn't about "knowing a lot". This is about having a political opinion. Shocker for some Democrats, but opinions can and do differ even among "educated" people, and that is perfectly legitimate.

It's perfectly legitimate iff the opposing opinion is sound.
Logged
MasterJedi
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 23,550
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #510 on: November 17, 2017, 11:04:07 AM »

It's not just that, it's that they praise bad decisions like Paris withdrawal and ditching regulations while simultaneously claiming that they are educated. Spoiled brats most likely.
Because educated people are only allowed to have one opinion? Your implication being a common opinion is the reason why more and more GOP voters have a negative view of the effects of education.

Those that are truly educated generally might know a lot but will admit they don't know everything and defer to experts. Those that aren't actually intelligent think they know everything and that they're always right, easy as that.
This isn't about "knowing a lot". This is about having a political opinion. Shocker for some Democrats, but opinions can and do differ even among "educated" people, and that is perfectly legitimate.

It's perfectly legitimate iff the opposing opinion is sound.

Correct, lack of belief of facts is a way to show someone really isn't intelligent or that educated to begin with.
Logged
darklordoftech
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,388
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #511 on: November 17, 2017, 11:14:45 AM »

Not just Climate change, in every question, College educated Republicans are giving crazy answers. Totally weird, maybe all these crazy conservative organizations in colleges & Infowars is having some effect.
A Republican who went to college with my father told him, "I can't stand Trump's pandering to coal miners and rust belt workers. The conservative idea is that if your job becomes obsolete, you look for a new job."
Logged
GeorgiaModerate
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,344


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #512 on: November 17, 2017, 11:21:00 AM »

If I might interject something related to the actual topic of this thread, which is the tax cut bill...

Murkowski is a NO unless Alexander-Murray passes first:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Person Man
Angry_Weasel
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 36,681
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #513 on: November 17, 2017, 11:52:06 AM »

At this point, they probably don't have the votes.
Logged
Yank2133
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,387


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #514 on: November 17, 2017, 12:10:35 PM »

They are really going to **** this up?
Logged
#gravelgang #lessiglad
Serious_Username
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,615
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #515 on: November 17, 2017, 01:27:36 PM »

Murkowski is a no, RoJo is a "no," Paul is a "no." I'd feel more comfortable if Collins or someone else with stronger convictions announces a no.

Paul and RoJo will surely fold, but I doubt Murkowski will.
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,348


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #516 on: November 17, 2017, 01:29:13 PM »

I hope Paul doesnt sabotage this
Logged
Brittain33
brittain33
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,933


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #517 on: November 17, 2017, 02:22:05 PM »

Is Paul even able to vote in Washington? Would he fly in if he were required and wanted to vote yes?
Logged
Santander
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,849
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: 4.00, S: 2.61


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #518 on: November 17, 2017, 02:22:46 PM »

Is Paul even able to vote in Washington? Would he fly in if he were required and wanted to vote yes?
I believe he's back on the Hill now.
Logged
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,577
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #519 on: November 17, 2017, 02:51:34 PM »

So Flake is apparently actually considering voting no: http://time.com/5027964/gop-tax-reform-bill-reactions/

Murkowski making her support conditional on Alexander-Murray passing the Senate first: https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/murkowski-alexander-murray-necessary
Logged
riceowl
riceowl315
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,350


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #520 on: November 17, 2017, 02:52:15 PM »

Hey whyyyyyy is no one talking about the Johnson amendment repeal provision?
Logged
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,577
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #521 on: November 17, 2017, 02:57:21 PM »

Update:

To Summarize the view of the Senate:

Solidly Opposed: The 45 Dem Senators who signed the tax reform demand letter

Likely Opposed:
Manchin, Donnelly, Heitkamp - they didn't sign the letter and have said they have an open mind regarding the legislation, but they are strong supporters of ObamaCare and I really don't think they'd vote to overturn the mandate - however, I can't rule out the silm possibility that if Republicans have 50 votes without them, one of them would vote yes anyway because "My vote wouldn't change the outcome and I want to show bipartisanship so I can get re-elected"

Paul - he voted against the framework, and his preferred amendments were rejected overwhelmingly. There's a small chance he eventually succumbs to party loyalty, as he did vote for Skinny Repeal. But it's highly unlikely.

Lean Opposed:
Corker - deficit hawk - but will he actually have a spine? We'll see.

Murkowski - Has made her support conditional on passage of Alexander- Murray.

Toss-Up:
Collins- Strong opponent of the ObamaCare repeal bills - but is mandate repeal alone a dealbreaker for her? We'll see. She does generally support cutting taxes.

Lean Support:
Lankford - he's said he'll vote against it "if it increases the deficit too much" - but didn't define what too much meant. He's a reliable vote for leadership, so the odds are he gets to yes, but we'll see.

Johnson - Said he can't support it right now, but he also said he wants to get to Yes. Odds are he'll find a way to vote yes eventually.

Flake - Might want to show opposition to Trump, and has raised real doubts about the eventual affect of the bill, but also probably supports the intent of this bill, and he did vote for all versions of ObamaCare Repeal.

Likely Support:
McCain - Voted against Skinny Repeal and opposed Graham-Cassidy, but he is a strong supporter of the tax cut portions of this bill, and his opposition to repeal was based more on the process of passage rather than the substance of the bill. I doubt mandate repeal alone would be a dealbreaker to him. But it's not impossible.

Safe Support: Other 44 GOP Senators


Overall: 51 AGAINST, 48 SUPPORT, 1 TOSS-UP
Logged
gottsu
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 822
Poland


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #522 on: November 17, 2017, 06:13:53 PM »

Update:

To Summarize the view of the Senate:

Solidly Opposed: The 45 Dem Senators who signed the tax reform demand letter

Likely Opposed:
Manchin, Donnelly, Heitkamp - they didn't sign the letter and have said they have an open mind regarding the legislation, but they are strong supporters of ObamaCare and I really don't think they'd vote to overturn the mandate - however, I can't rule out the silm possibility that if Republicans have 50 votes without them, one of them would vote yes anyway because "My vote wouldn't change the outcome and I want to show bipartisanship so I can get re-elected"

Paul - he voted against the framework, and his preferred amendments were rejected overwhelmingly. There's a small chance he eventually succumbs to party loyalty, as he did vote for Skinny Repeal. But it's highly unlikely.

Lean Opposed:
Corker - deficit hawk - but will he actually have a spine? We'll see.

Murkowski - Has made her support conditional on passage of Alexander- Murray.

Toss-Up:
Collins- Strong opponent of the ObamaCare repeal bills - but is mandate repeal alone a dealbreaker for her? We'll see. She does generally support cutting taxes.

Lean Support:
Lankford - he's said he'll vote against it "if it increases the deficit too much" - but didn't define what too much meant. He's a reliable vote for leadership, so the odds are he gets to yes, but we'll see.

Johnson - Said he can't support it right now, but he also said he wants to get to Yes. Odds are he'll find a way to vote yes eventually.

Flake - Might want to show opposition to Trump, and has raised real doubts about the eventual affect of the bill, but also probably supports the intent of this bill, and he did vote for all versions of ObamaCare Repeal.

Likely Support:
McCain - Voted against Skinny Repeal and opposed Graham-Cassidy, but he is a strong supporter of the tax cut portions of this bill, and his opposition to repeal was based more on the process of passage rather than the substance of the bill. I doubt mandate repeal alone would be a dealbreaker to him. But it's not impossible.

Safe Support: Other 44 GOP Senators


Overall: 51 AGAINST, 48 SUPPORT, 1 TOSS-UP

Nice to see. GOP-ers are standing in a very, very tight corner when it comes to Tax&ACA Reform Bill, and if it doesn't passes on Senate, some of them might begin to start packing from Hill, because they are gonna be smashed so badly on midterms.

Both parties have less or big troubles recently, but Democrats remain as being teflon-coated. Just look what happened to Bob Menendez (judge ordered retrial in his corruption case), look what happens to Franken (if he resigns or not, it's not a big deal, MN has a D governor, and look at a slightly different public approach to his charges), Clinton's uranium deal etc.
Logged
GeorgiaModerate
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,344


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #523 on: November 17, 2017, 06:19:07 PM »

Murkowski walks back her comments:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
mvd10
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,709


Political Matrix
E: 2.58, S: -2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #524 on: November 17, 2017, 06:24:09 PM »

Johnson is a no because it doesn't do enough for small businesses in his view. This means they can only afford to lose 1 more vote, which would be very hard. I guess Paul would only support a tax bill that eliminates the mandate while Murkowski/Collins/McCain probably are no fans of repealing the mandate (I assume the other will fall in line because of party loyalty/actual belief in this bill). It will be hard, but they really have to pass something don't they? ACA repeal was different because that would screw over millions of people very badly, and while this bill has it's losers it should be broadly beneficial to the majority of Americans (atleast financially in the short term).
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 19 20 [21] 22 23 24 25 26 ... 79  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.069 seconds with 12 queries.