$1.5 Trillion GOP Tax Cut Thread

[Indy Texas]

The thing that shocks me is certain people here say how suburanties were a deadend for dems because once Trump is gone and the culture warrior stuff dies down they'll go back to the GOP but this almost guarantee the suburbs going dem as now they are going to get hit in the pocketbook by Trump/GOP as well

It's bewildering how they seem to be almost trying to foster a realignment along the lines of the 2016 presidential election.

It would be easy for the suburban swing to the Democrats to have just been a fluke owing to a uniquely positioned Republican candidate. But the Republicans in elections this year have been running on the sort of culture war and anti-immigrant policies that offend suburbanites, and now Republicans in Congress seem dead-set on passing a tax bill that amounts to a redistribution of wealth toward the super-rich and business owners and away from the "merely" well-off and white collar salaried professionals.

[Indy Texas]

The thing that shocks me is certain people here say how suburanties were a deadend for dems because once Trump is gone and the culture warrior stuff dies down they'll go back to the GOP but this almost guarantee the suburbs going dem as now they are going to get hit in the pocketbook by Trump/GOP as well

It's bewildering how they seem to be almost trying to foster a realignment along the lines of the 2016 presidential election.

It would be easy for the suburban swing to the Democrats to have just been a fluke owing to a uniquely positioned Republican candidate. But the Republicans in elections this year have been running on the sort of culture war and anti-immigrant policies that offend suburbanites, and now Republicans in Congress seem dead-set on passing a tax bill that amounts to a redistribution of wealth toward the super-rich and business owners and away from the "merely" well-off and white collar salaried professionals.

I still do not understand why someone should pay a lower tax bill simply because they live in a state that has high state taxes and property taxes. IF you live in and vote for higher taxes in your state for a variety of reasons, more power to you, but I don't think you should then expect to get let off the hook at the federal level. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Also, anybody who is paying 10,000 dollars in property taxes is the type of person that represents the "rich" that the sanders wing wants to heavily tax.

Funny how they garner sympathy from the left when it is the GOP that targets their unfair tax deduction. 

That's a very un-conservative thing to say, Marty. Californians' money belongs to Californians. They have a right to keep more of it in California rather than have Donald Trump and the GOP Congress redistribute it to states like Montana and Mississippi.

[Indy Texas]

lmao if they think they'll have enough time to finish a vote-o-rama tomorrow starting so late

I don't think McConnell cares if these guys have to miss their Friday Night bar runs.

That era of DC has long gone. He's making them fly home Saturday morning instead of Friday night.

[Indy Texas]

Passes 51-50 via Pence.

Good it should help my mom and dad with less taxes.

Unless your parents are One Percenters, your tax savings might be enough to pay for a couple of dinners at Red Lobster.

[Indy Texas]

If there were no filibusters we'd just keep going back and forth between ultraconservative periods, ultraprogressive periods, and stagnant periods.

Fine by me.

Our policies vs theres. I think will win that fight.

That would create a lot of instability.

Imagine everyone's tax rates going up and down every few years. Or everyone getting enrolled in a national health insurance plan only to have it abruptly ended four years later.

[Indy Texas]

The Republican party just died. Congrats politically to Democrats but terrible economically for the country.

Watch the stock market.

It did great under Obama for 8 years. That wasn't good enough for you though, was it?

Most Americans don't own any stocks.

[Indy Texas]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

[Indy Texas]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

Studies of past tax cuts, and informal surveys of present-day CEOs, indicate that corporate tax cuts generally do not lead to more jobs.  They primarily go to increased dividends and share buybacks.

(That was my point.)

[Indy Texas]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

Sorry.  Not sure I get your feedback.  I back this plan partly because unwinding the marriage tax penalty as  well as unwinding of federal subsidies for high tax state/local governments.  I also back it as a way to starve the beast which in turn would lead to reduction to various welfare programs.  The creation of more jobs was never a goal for me to support this plan.  I agree that on the short run there will be an economic sugar high in the corporate tax rates and lead to greater economic activity which helps Trumps re-election.  On the whole I OPPOSE this aspect of this plan since it risks higher inflation.  So not sure what any of this has to do with number of jobs or in particular industrial jobs which I guess would lead to more pollution.  Of course Trump would want people to believe that this plan will lead to more industrial jobs.  I am not sure of that and I really do not care.  The goal for me is and always will be reduction of the welfare state.

You completely missed my sarcasm.

Anyway, there will be no reduction in the welfare state. The political wherewithal for that isn't there: it wasn't in 2005 when Bush's Social Security plan failed; it wasn't this year when healthcare reform failed.

Most of us happen to like taking care of poor people. You don't because you are a selfish, hateful person.

[Indy Texas]

A number of my left-wing friends have said, "as much as it sucks that it's a corporate give away, I desperately need to keep some more money." Most of my friends makes between $35k and $55k (myself included). What's the best argument to use to encourage my friends not to support this tax plan?

That the deficits caused by this tax plan would only give the GOP the ammo to then cut all sorts entitlement programs which in turn will cut the net material standard living of your friends on the long run.  Of course this argument would make me want to support this plan but the same argument can b used to convince someone center-left to oppose this plan.

Please tell us about all the jobs you're going to create with your tax cut.

If you want to live in a polluted, crony capitalist garbage heap, why don't you go back to China?

Sorry.  Not sure I get your feedback.  I back this plan partly because unwinding the marriage tax penalty as  well as unwinding of federal subsidies for high tax state/local governments.  I also back it as a way to starve the beast which in turn would lead to reduction to various welfare programs.  The creation of more jobs was never a goal for me to support this plan.  I agree that on the short run there will be an economic sugar high in the corporate tax rates and lead to greater economic activity which helps Trumps re-election.  On the whole I OPPOSE this aspect of this plan since it risks higher inflation.  So not sure what any of this has to do with number of jobs or in particular industrial jobs which I guess would lead to more pollution.  Of course Trump would want people to believe that this plan will lead to more industrial jobs.  I am not sure of that and I really do not care.  The goal for me is and always will be reduction of the welfare state.

You completely missed my sarcasm.

Anyway, there will be no reduction in the welfare state. The political wherewithal for that isn't there: it wasn't in 2005 when Bush's Social Security plan failed; it wasn't this year when healthcare reform failed.

Most of us happen to like taking care of poor people. You don't because you are a selfish, hateful person.

I think it has something to do with Confucian thinking. Hierarchy is very important and there is no virtue of asking something of your seniors while being unable to offer anything in return.

Hierarchy also entails obligation on the part of those at the top, just as it does deference on the part of those at the bottom. That is the root of the idea of noblesse oblige.

I don't know if there is an East Asian equivalent of that, but if there is, jaichind clearly never heard about it.

[Indy Texas]

You know the reason GOP kept the individual rates temporary is that it allows them to pass it with 50 votes , and then even when the Democrats win there is no way Dems will let them expire , so they basically made the tax reform permanent with just 50 votes.

The Democrats are going to let them expire.

They may not make it the full 10 years even. If Dems have the Trifecta after 2020/22/24, depending on which democrat is elected President, they may push through congress a substantial amendment to the legislation that establishes a top rate of something like 50% to help pay for Single Payer.

My hope would be that they just pass a bill restoring everything to the current status quo.

Then do a revenue positive tax reform that (1) lowers the top corporate rate to something like 28%; (2) raises taxes on upper brackets for income, dividends and capital gains; (3) gets rid of the ability to deduct interest expense, effectively smothering private equity firms with a pillow.

[Indy Texas]

http://thehill.com/opinion/finance/362949-ceos-agree-corporate-tax-cuts-wont-trickle-down

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[Indy Texas]

I noticed that Pence cast a tie-breaking vote for Cruz's amendment. What does Cruz's amendment do?

It extends 529 savings accounts, which parents use to save money for college, to k-12 expenses as well.

Ridiculous. The sort of people who can afford to pay for private school are exactly the sort of people who do not need a tax cut.

(Full disclosure: Attended private schools K-12.)