Opinion of aborting a fetus solely because it is a woman?
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  Opinion of aborting a fetus solely because it is a woman?
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Horrible Action, but it should be legal
 
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Horrible Action, and it should be illegal
 
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Author Topic: Opinion of aborting a fetus solely because it is a woman?  (Read 914 times)
Intell
Junior Chimp
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« on: September 30, 2017, 07:52:15 AM »

Perfectly acceptable, according to the logic of some people.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 08:29:19 AM »

The only way this question is relevant is if you're requiring women to justify why they want an abortion. I don't believe that anyone should have to do that, so it's an irrelevant question to me. If the abortion is legal, she should be allowed to have it, no questions asked.

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Intell
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2017, 08:42:13 AM »

The only way this question is relevant is if you're requiring women to justify why they want an abortion. I don't believe that anyone should have to do that, so it's an irrelevant question to me. If the abortion is legal, she should be allowed to have it, no questions asked.


I don't have an opinion is not an answer.
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The Govanah Jake
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2017, 08:58:00 AM »

Obviously not a freedoms action. I don't know about making it illegal but it is clearly morally wrong to do such a thing.
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America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2017, 09:06:34 AM »

The only way this question is relevant is if you're requiring women to justify why they want an abortion. I don't believe that anyone should have to do that, so it's an irrelevant question to me. If the abortion is legal, she should be allowed to have it, no questions asked.

I don't have an opinion is not an answer.

This is an opinion. Framing an abortion as either "a freedom action" or "a horrible action" is senseless. Yes, a woman should be allowed to abort her fetus without any inquiries if it's a legal abortion (not late-term), and yes, even if it's for a stupid reason such as this one. No, it's not a freedom action. I voted for option 2 because it's the closest to what I believe in, but yes, it's "perfectly acceptable" from a legal point of view.
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Santander
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 11:02:09 AM »

It should be criminal.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
TimTurner
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« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 04:47:41 PM »
« Edited: September 30, 2017, 04:49:43 PM by Southern Speaker/National Archivist TimTurner »

Self-selective abortion is utterly vile, worse than the average abortion.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2017, 05:44:44 PM »

Self-selective abortion is utterly vile, worse than the average abortion.
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Cactus Jack
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« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2017, 05:46:02 PM »

Eugenics, once again, is generally considered to be a bad thing.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2017, 06:18:47 PM »

I really don't understand what everyone here is practically suggesting. Do you want to question every woman who wants to abort her embryo?
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2017, 06:30:42 PM »

I really don't understand what everyone here is practically suggesting. Do you want to question every woman who wants to abort her embryo?

First off, Fetus /=/ Embryo - they are two different terms referring to two different stages of pregnancy. This question specifically asked about fetuses, which refers to the 9th week of Pregnancy and beyond. Embryo is first 8 weeks only.

Second, with any limitation on abortion comes some form of questioning. You want a parental notification requirement? Congratulations, you're asking the woman whether her parents know. You want to limit late term abortions to life or health of the mother? Congratulations, you're asking (either directly or indirectly through medical tools) whether the abortion is being done for a medical reason. You want a blanket ban on abortion after 24 weeks? Congratulations, you're asking (either directly or indirectly through medical tools) how long the woman has been pregnant. Unless you literally want free and unfettered abortion at any point in pregnancy, some form of questioning is required to enforce literally any limitation on abortion.
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America Needs R'hllor
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« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2017, 07:01:51 PM »

I really don't understand what everyone here is practically suggesting. Do you want to question every woman who wants to abort her embryo?

First off, Fetus /=/ Embryo - they are two different terms referring to two different stages of pregnancy. This question specifically asked about fetuses, which refers to the 9th week of Pregnancy and beyond. Embryo is first 8 weeks only.

Second, with any limitation on abortion comes some form of questioning. You want a parental notification requirement? Congratulations, you're asking the woman whether her parents know. You want to limit late term abortions to life or health of the mother? Congratulations, you're asking (either directly or indirectly through medical tools) whether the abortion is being done for a medical reason. You want a blanket ban on abortion after 24 weeks? Congratulations, you're asking (either directly or indirectly through medical tools) how long the woman has been pregnant. Unless you literally want free and unfettered abortion at any point in pregnancy, some form of questioning is required to enforce literally any limitation on abortion.

My bad, I know the difference between an embryo snd a fetus but misread the question as a catch-all one for all stages.
As for the rest- a pregnancy is a medical condition, so of course your need to be questioned about your, well, medical condition. But asking a woman how long she had been pregnant (which a doctor should know anyway) is vastly different from humiliating questioning of a woman who made this tough decision. I stand by my words, as long as an abortion is legal (for example, if a certain state legalized abortions up to the 24th week), the woman shouldn't be required to provide any reasoning before a judging council that will decide if her reasoning is sound. After the 24th week, going by this example, yes, a questioning is needed to see if the woman fits one of the criterions for having a late abortion (such as rape and danger to her life). In that case, of course "it's a girl" or "it has a down syndrome" is not sound reasoning- but neither is anything else that does not fit the criteria.

So I still don't see what those who want to make it illegal are suggesting.
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Anna Komnene
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« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2017, 07:18:20 PM »

I really don't understand what everyone here is practically suggesting. Do you want to question every woman who wants to abort her embryo?

First off, Fetus /=/ Embryo - they are two different terms referring to two different stages of pregnancy. This question specifically asked about fetuses, which refers to the 9th week of Pregnancy and beyond. Embryo is first 8 weeks only.

Second, with any limitation on abortion comes some form of questioning. You want a parental notification requirement? Congratulations, you're asking the woman whether her parents know. You want to limit late term abortions to life or health of the mother? Congratulations, you're asking (either directly or indirectly through medical tools) whether the abortion is being done for a medical reason. You want a blanket ban on abortion after 24 weeks? Congratulations, you're asking (either directly or indirectly through medical tools) how long the woman has been pregnant. Unless you literally want free and unfettered abortion at any point in pregnancy, some form of questioning is required to enforce literally any limitation on abortion.

I mean I don't support most of those restrictions anyway apart from late-term abortions, but those types of questions are not even remotely in the same category as questioning a woman about her reason for having an abortion. Doing so automatically creates the impression that there are good reasons and bad reasons. It puts the doctor or questioner in a position of authority and power over her. It makes her feel uncomfortable and treats her as if she is not capable of making sound decisions. When you go to the doctor to fix a broken tooth, you are not asked to justify your reason for being there apart from the fact that your tooth hurts and you want it to stop. You aren't threatened with the idea that you might be sent home with earth shattering pain because your reasons for fixing the tooth aren't acceptable to the doctor. In much the same way, going to the a clinic to receive an abortion is seeking a medical procedure. You have the right to be informed about the procedure or available alternatives, but forcing you to justify your reasons for wanting the procedure amounts to blatant coercion.

I mean sure, if people get some sort of malicious pleasure in demeaning the character of others, then yes, I don't like the idea of aborting because you didn't get the kind of fetus that you wanted. However, self-righteous soap boxing about this issue means literally nothing unless you're willing to subject women to interrogations prior to having an abortion. Unless you're willing to do that, you will never know why a woman chose to have an abortion and will never have a reason to rail against her decision, apart from the fact that she chose to have an abortion in the first place. There's literally no point to these threads other than pointing fingers at people and saying "bad! you are very bad! and probably going to the very bad place when you die!"

And by the way, it's not exactly easy to determine the sex of the baby. There's not really an exact science on it in terms of when it happens. It's usually not until late in the 2nd trimester, far beyond the point when most people choose to abort. Because usually when people want an abortion, its because they don't actually want to have to go through all the crap that is pregnancy.
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 12:04:11 AM »

HA along with abortion because of race. There has to be an actual reason not "I wanted a boy".
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 05:36:22 PM »

The only way this question is relevant is if you're requiring women to justify why they want an abortion. I don't believe that anyone should have to do that, so it's an irrelevant question to me. If the abortion is legal, she should be allowed to have it, no questions asked.

I don't have an opinion is not an answer.

This is an opinion. Framing an abortion as either "a freedom action" or "a horrible action" is senseless. Yes, a woman should be allowed to abort her fetus without any inquiries if it's a legal abortion (not late-term), and yes, even if it's for a stupid reason such as this one. No, it's not a freedom action. I voted for option 2 because it's the closest to what I believe in, but yes, it's "perfectly acceptable" from a legal point of view.

I mean, you can still have an opinion on whether an action is morally OK or not even if you don't think it should be a legal question, and the person in question should never be legally compelled to talk about it.

The "freedom action" vs. "horrible action" dichotomy is silly though.  I assume that everyone here either thinks it's immoral or morally neutral.
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Horus
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2017, 05:46:33 PM »

HA along with abortion because of race. There has to be an actual reason not "I wanted a boy".
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2017, 07:09:09 PM »

The most basic premise is that you have principles, and judging solely by your two namesakes, that seems doubtful.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2017, 07:21:56 PM »

I'm not sure how laws could prevent this other than inventing mind-reading technology.
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Intell
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« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2017, 06:32:52 AM »

I'm not sure how laws could prevent this other than inventing mind-reading technology.

Did I ever talk about the law.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2017, 06:45:30 AM »

I'm not sure how laws could prevent this other than inventing mind-reading technology.

Did I ever talk about the law.

You asked whether it should be legal or illegal when it's not something which can be legislated for.
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Intell
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2017, 06:47:26 AM »

I'm not sure how laws could prevent this other than inventing mind-reading technology.

Did I ever talk about the law.

You asked whether it should be legal or illegal when it's not something which can be legislated for.

Pretty sure I didn't.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2017, 06:49:09 AM »

I'm not sure how laws could prevent this other than inventing mind-reading technology.

Did I ever talk about the law.

You asked whether it should be legal or illegal when it's not something which can be legislated for.

Pretty sure I didn't.

Look at the poll options?
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Intell
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2017, 06:52:45 AM »

I'm not sure how laws could prevent this other than inventing mind-reading technology.

Did I ever talk about the law.

You asked whether it should be legal or illegal when it's not something which can be legislated for.

Pretty sure I didn't.

Look at the poll options?

Ok, I just copied that from another poll so woops, but the question was mainly intended at people who refused to call it a horrible action.
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America Needs R'hllor
Parrotguy
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« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2017, 07:17:21 AM »

I'm not sure how laws could prevent this other than inventing mind-reading technology.

Did I ever talk about the law.

You asked whether it should be legal or illegal when it's not something which can be legislated for.

Pretty sure I didn't.

Look at the poll options?

Ok, I just copied that from another poll so woops, but the question was mainly intended at people who refused to call it a horrible action.

Of course it's a horrible action, then. My opposition is to people who want to make this illegal.
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DavidB.
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« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2017, 04:26:35 PM »

Interesting how progressives now support sex-selective abortions...
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