Quebec Provincial election October 1, 2018

[politicallefty]

I might have asked this before, but it's an honest question. Why is there no strong left-wing federalist party in Quebec? To me, it doesn't make any sense anymore. The PQ/BQ position has been decimated by the electorate. And yes, I'm well aware that Quebec is not the left-wing haven that so many make it out to be (Montreal, perhaps, but certainly the rest of the province). What ever happened with the NPDQ or has the collapse of the federal NDP in Quebec taken its toll?

[toaster]

I might have asked this before, but it's an honest question. Why is there no strong left-wing federalist party in Quebec? To me, it doesn't make any sense anymore. The PQ/BQ position has been decimated by the electorate. And yes, I'm well aware that Quebec is not the left-wing haven that so many make it out to be (Montreal, perhaps, but certainly the rest of the province). What ever happened with the NPDQ or has the collapse of the federal NDP in Quebec taken its toll?

Francophones in Quebec were forced into being made a British colony, and for many even today (I would say more the baby boomers than millennials), it still 'hurts' - something those arguing for a federalist Left in Quebec need to be respectful of.

I'm curious as to why you think Quebec is not left-wing? And by 'left-wing' do you mean socialist?  I would say it's the most socialist province/state in North America

Some examples of why Quebec is considered socialist/democratic socialist

Free college tuition
Lowest university tuition in North America (~3,000 CAD per year)
Highest income tax rate in North America (highest earners ~58%)
Highest subsidized and fully government-run daycare program in North America
First province in Canada to have a pharmacare program (for those without private insurance - although not the greatest, still better than nothing)
etc.

The Liberals, I might add, governed supporting all these things.  So it's odd for me to hear that anyone would say the province isn't "left wing".  If any party governed on these things in any state in the US they would be seen as extremists. 

[RogueBeaver]

What toaster said: The Liberals and PQ were extremely progressive in the 60s and 70s but once they locked in what's called the Quebec model, they mellowed out and slouched away from bold progressivism.

[Hatman 🍁]

#hottake: There is no major left wing federalist party for the same reason there's no major left wing unionist party in Northern Ireland.

[EPG]

One may equally ask why there is no major left-wing non-federalist party in Québec...

[Hatman 🍁]

One may equally ask why there is no major left-wing non-federalist party in Québec...

🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

that hot take is especially on fire.

[EPG]

The real answer as discussed above is that they are all left-wing, in the same quiet policy outcomes-based way Danish Venstre is much more left-wing than the German SDP.

[RogueBeaver]

FWIW, today's Mainstreet riding polls have CAQ leading in 5 and PLQ holds narrow lead in 2.

[Hatman 🍁]

32-31 for the Liberals in Chapleau (Gatineau) with the QS in third 🤣🤣🤣

[mileslunn]

I don't want to reveal all of the Mainstreet riding polls less get banned, but they did show the CAQ ahead in one traditional PLQ riding another traditionally PQ but currently held PLQ while they did show the PLQ slightly ahead in one area you might expect the CAQ to be competitive.  Those with access to them can probably guess which one's I am referring to.

[politicallefty]

I'm curious as to why you think Quebec is not left-wing? And by 'left-wing' do you mean socialist?  I would say it's the most socialist province/state in North America

That's a good point that I figured would come up. I meant not the left-wing haven people make it out to be. It's long struck me as a place of left-wing authoritarianism. Issues like language vs free speech and immigration are particularly striking to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but Quebec has struck me as fairly xenophobic.

#hottake: There is no major left wing federalist party for the same reason there's no major left wing unionist party in Northern Ireland.

Perhaps, but that's a statement of fact, not an explanation as to why things are what they are or why they haven't evolved. I know you're a strong Canadian patriot that supports the NDP. Which party would you vote for in Quebec? I ask you that because that's a question I ask myself. I think maybe QS because they're staunchly left-wing and the sovereignty aspect of their platform has been basically neutralized for the foreseeable future (barring anything unforeseen, the Quebec sovereignty movement appears to be dead, or at least nearly so).

[VPH]

There's no question that Quebec is more nationalistic and hostile to immigration (especially Muslim immigration) than other provinces. However, as much as this may seem like social conservatism, it isn't indicative of an overall more conservative province. Here is the major paradox of Quebec politics. Quebec is liberal on issues like abortion and gay marriage, even more so than the rest of Canada. However, Quebec has lower levels of religious disaffiliation than other provinces but also far lower church attendance. This is a function of the Silent Revolution of the 1960s, in which a clerical, corporatist province rapidly secularized, leaving some vestiges of its old past. Quebec is still somewhat wrapped up in Catholic identity without embodying Catholic socially conservative politics. This is visible in debates over things like the cross in the National Assembly, which was supported by those who wanted to get rid of public religious symbolism on employees. (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/06/27/canadas-changing-religious-landscape/)

[KaiserDave]

Are there any large segments of younger people that are nationalist? Or at least the PQ? Not a fan of PQ, just curious.

[VPH]

Are there any large segments of younger people that are nationalist? Or at least the PQ? Not a fan of PQ, just curious.

Quebec Solidaire's base tends to be younger, and they're a separatist party who uses Quebec nationalism, but not xenophobia, as a means to achieve a socialist Quebec. Especially since absorbing Option Nationale, they have become more nationalist in terms of leaving Canada.

[Hatman 🍁]

I'm curious as to why you think Quebec is not left-wing? And by 'left-wing' do you mean socialist?  I would say it's the most socialist province/state in North America

That's a good point that I figured would come up. I meant not the left-wing haven people make it out to be. It's long struck me as a place of left-wing authoritarianism. Issues like language vs free speech and immigration are particularly striking to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but Quebec has struck me as fairly xenophobic.

#hottake: There is no major left wing federalist party for the same reason there's no major left wing unionist party in Northern Ireland.

Perhaps, but that's a statement of fact, not an explanation as to why things are what they are or why they haven't evolved. I know you're a strong Canadian patriot that supports the NDP. Which party would you vote for in Quebec? I ask you that because that's a question I ask myself. I think maybe QS because they're staunchly left-wing and the sovereignty aspect of their platform has been basically neutralized for the foreseeable future (barring anything unforeseen, the Quebec sovereignty movement appears to be dead, or at least nearly so).

I've often asked that myself, considering I live so close to Quebec, the prospect of actually moving there has always existed. I have no issue voting for fringe parties, so I would vote for the NDPQ if they were running. If not, maybe they Greens, and if neither then I would vote QS.

[VPH]

Interesting poll out today that challenges some assumptions, including my own. Among those aged 18-34, the polling breakdown is:
35% PLQ
26% CAQ
16% PQ
9% PVQ
8% QS
6% Other

I don't have any way to explain that inflated Green %. Maybe NDPQ wasn't polled so Anglos picked PVQ here? PVQ is a massive joke, so to see them leading QS among youth is strange to me. Heck, one of QS' most prominent MNAs is Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, who less than a decade ago was the ringleader of the student protest movement. Guess young people here aren't all that radical.


https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/quebec-election-liberals-drawing-more-youth-vote-than-other-parties-poll-says?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1535488099

[EPG]

Students a decade ago are old people now

[the506]

I don't have any way to explain that inflated Green %. Maybe NDPQ wasn't polled so Anglos picked PVQ here? PVQ is a massive joke, so to see them leading QS among youth is strange to me. Heck, one of QS' most prominent MNAs is Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, who less than a decade ago was the ringleader of the student protest movement. Guess young people here aren't all that radical.

"19 times out of 20".

[toaster]

There's no question that Quebec is more nationalistic and hostile to immigration (especially Muslim immigration) than other provinces. However, as much as this may seem like social conservatism, it isn't indicative of an overall more conservative province. Here is the major paradox of Quebec politics. Quebec is liberal on issues like abortion and gay marriage, even more so than the rest of Canada. However, Quebec has lower levels of religious disaffiliation than other provinces but also far lower church attendance. This is a function of the Silent Revolution of the 1960s, in which a clerical, corporatist province rapidly secularized, leaving some vestiges of its old past. Quebec is still somewhat wrapped up in Catholic identity without embodying Catholic socially conservative politics. This is visible in debates over things like the cross in the National Assembly, which was supported by those who wanted to get rid of public religious symbolism on employees. (http://www.pewforum.org/2013/06/27/canadas-changing-religious-landscape/)

The way I explain it to my American friends is that Quebec is kind of in its own post-xenophobic, post-racialized, post-homophobic world.  For the last 50 years+ it has been the place of live and let live of Canada (do what you want to do) but the big caveat is that you better not be "hurting" or causing harm to anyone else in doing that.  Their position on muslims is more like Bill Maher's position than Bill O'Reilley's.  Everyone is on an even playing field, so if you have a book that says racist or homophobic things, or forces women to do anything, we won't put up with it.  It comes off as Conservative to people who haven't lived through that post-(xenophobic/homophobic/sexist/racial) world.  We are all "survivors" so to speak (in terms of victimhood, whether it be by our language, race, religion, sexual orientation, etc), so we are all disadvantaged, so the affirmative action doesn't really work either.  There is common understanding by everyone that it's been a struggle for everyone.

[Hatman 🍁]

I don't have any way to explain that inflated Green %. Maybe NDPQ wasn't polled so Anglos picked PVQ here? PVQ is a massive joke, so to see them leading QS among youth is strange to me. Heck, one of QS' most prominent MNAs is Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois, who less than a decade ago was the ringleader of the student protest movement. Guess young people here aren't all that radical.

"19 times out of 20".

From what I've seen in the last few years, polling the under 35 category is all over the place. They don't answer their phones, so you're not getting a very representative sample.

[DC Al Fine]

Given the PLQ's relatively inefficient vote, by approximately how much do they need to win the popular vote by to win the most seats? To win a majority?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The way I explain it to my American friends is that Quebec is kind of in its own post-xenophobic, post-racialized, post-homophobic world.

Ah, yes, Quebec - a province famously free of ethnic tensions and definitely not home to discriminatory legislation concerning language usage (for instance) or to faux-nativist political discourses...

[MaxQue]

The way I explain it to my American friends is that Quebec is kind of in its own post-xenophobic, post-racialized, post-homophobic world.

Ah, yes, Quebec - a province famously free of ethnic tensions and definitely not home to discriminatory legislation concerning language usage (for instance) or to faux-nativist political discourses...

The said discriminatory clause and the use of the notwithstanding clause has been removed in 1992.

[Hatman 🍁]

So apparently the CAQ lead is collapsing? I haven't subscribed to the Mainstreet tracker this time, but that's what Twitter has indicated.

[MaxQue]

So apparently the CAQ lead is collapsing? I haven't subscribed to the Mainstreet tracker this time, but that's what Twitter has indicated.

La Tribune website (a member of Groupe Capitale Medias, the sponsor of the polls) is saying CAQ 31.8, PLQ 28.2, PQ 19.4, QS 15.5.