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| | |-+  How would this forum react if Kamala Harris won the presidency?
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Author Topic: How would this forum react if Kamala Harris won the presidency?  (Read 6725 times)
Lou Barletta's Teeth
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« on: October 03, 2017, 10:54:21 am »

How would it react?
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2017, 10:56:28 am »

I would wake up from whatever dream I was having.
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Hardline Remainer
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2017, 11:00:08 am »

I would wake up from whatever dream I was having.
It isn't that unlikely.
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Spenstar
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2017, 11:37:54 am »

I'd have mixed emotions. I'd be happy that Trump lost, but at best cautiously optimistic about a Harris presidency.
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Lou Barletta's Teeth
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 11:39:00 am »

I would wake up from whatever dream I was having.

A Harris presidency is far more likely than you think.
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 11:47:22 am »

I would wake up from whatever dream I was having.

A Harris presidency is far more likely than you think.

5% chance of running

5% chance of nomination, if she runs

50% chance of beating Trump, if nominated

.125% chance of being elected president
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White Trash
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 11:53:25 am »

I'd give up on politics for a little while. It'd be clear to me at that point that the Democratic Party will never change in the way it should. Maybe I'll focus on local politics, see what I can do in Louisiana or Georgia regarding activism, but federal politics would be a sport I'd no longer want to spectate.
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heatcharger
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2017, 12:12:16 pm »

I'd give up on politics for a little while. It'd be clear to me at that point that the Democratic Party will never change in the way it should. Maybe I'll focus on local politics, see what I can do in Louisiana or Georgia regarding activism, but federal politics would be a sport I'd no longer want to spectate.

You’d be so dismayed by a president who supports single-payer that you’d stop caring about politics. You voted for Trump in a swing state. Why aren’t you a Republican again?
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Lou Barletta's Teeth
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2017, 12:15:42 pm »

I would wake up from whatever dream I was having.

A Harris presidency is far more likely than you think.

5% chance of running

5% chance of nomination, if she runs

50% chance of beating Trump, if nominated

.125% chance of being elected president

Pretty sure that’s not how it works...
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White Trash
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2017, 12:32:16 pm »

I'd give up on politics for a little while. It'd be clear to me at that point that the Democratic Party will never change in the way it should. Maybe I'll focus on local politics, see what I can do in Louisiana or Georgia regarding activism, but federal politics would be a sport I'd no longer want to spectate.

You’d be so dismayed by a president who supports single-payer that you’d stop caring about politics. You voted for Trump in a swing state. Why aren’t you a Republican again?
I wouldn't be dismayed, I'd simply be disappointed that the Democratic Party didn't nominate someone who pays attention to the issues that are the most important to me. What exactly is a prosecutor from Oakland, California going to do for rural folks? I'm not confident that she'll be any different from Trump, Obama, Bush or any other President we've had since the founding of the nation in regards to what will be done for the rural impoverished.

And let's not get into this "Why aren't you a Republican again?" business. That has to be the laziest line of critique in intra-party politics. Leave that to the actual Republicans.
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2017, 12:33:55 pm »

Drink. And not in celebration.
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Lechasseur
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2017, 12:34:49 pm »

Drink. And not in celebration.
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heatcharger
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2017, 04:10:02 pm »

I'd give up on politics for a little while. It'd be clear to me at that point that the Democratic Party will never change in the way it should. Maybe I'll focus on local politics, see what I can do in Louisiana or Georgia regarding activism, but federal politics would be a sport I'd no longer want to spectate.

You’d be so dismayed by a president who supports single-payer that you’d stop caring about politics. You voted for Trump in a swing state. Why aren’t you a Republican again?
I wouldn't be dismayed, I'd simply be disappointed that the Democratic Party didn't nominate someone who pays attention to the issues that are the most important to me. What exactly is a prosecutor from Oakland, California going to do for rural folks? I'm not confident that she'll be any different from Trump, Obama, Bush or any other President we've had since the founding of the nation in regards to what will be done for the rural impoverished.

And let's not get into this "Why aren't you a Republican again?" business. That has to be the laziest line of critique in intra-party politics. Leave that to the actual Republicans.

You're talking about lazy critiques but have the audacity to imply Harris won't do anything for rural folks based on the city and state she comes from?

And if you think literally every president hasn't done anything different regarding the rural impoverished, why the hell would Kamala Harris and John Bel Edwards or whatever rural white Dem that'll satisfy you be any different? Jesus man.
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White Trash
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2017, 04:28:53 pm »

I'd give up on politics for a little while. It'd be clear to me at that point that the Democratic Party will never change in the way it should. Maybe I'll focus on local politics, see what I can do in Louisiana or Georgia regarding activism, but federal politics would be a sport I'd no longer want to spectate.

You’d be so dismayed by a president who supports single-payer that you’d stop caring about politics. You voted for Trump in a swing state. Why aren’t you a Republican again?
I wouldn't be dismayed, I'd simply be disappointed that the Democratic Party didn't nominate someone who pays attention to the issues that are the most important to me. What exactly is a prosecutor from Oakland, California going to do for rural folks? I'm not confident that she'll be any different from Trump, Obama, Bush or any other President we've had since the founding of the nation in regards to what will be done for the rural impoverished.

And let's not get into this "Why aren't you a Republican again?" business. That has to be the laziest line of critique in intra-party politics. Leave that to the actual Republicans.

You're talking about lazy critiques but have the audacity to imply Harris won't do anything for rural folks based on the city and state she comes from?

And if you think literally every president hasn't done anything different regarding the rural impoverished, why the hell would Kamala Harris and John Bel Edwards or whatever rural white Dem that'll satisfy you be any different? Jesus man.
I'm not cynical about Harris in particular, but really about the Democratic Party and American politics in general. Do I think Bel Edwards would be better than Harris in answering the needs of rural Americans? Maybe, I really can't say for certain. I will say that I am slightly more confident in his ability than Harris' due to his background and the state that he governs being largely rural and one of the poorest in the nation. What sort of experience does Harris have that is equivalent to that?

But the fact remains that rural America continues to crumble and not a thing is being done about it. There needs to be serious changes in the system, and I doubt that Harris has the political clout or platform to do. I don't blame Harris for not having a political career laser focused on the plight of the rural poor, it's not her problem. And that's why I would prefer to elect someone with a more class based background and platform, who is experience in dealing with rural issues.

Single payer sounds real nice, and I am willing to give Harris the benefit of the doubt, but she has yet to prove to me that she is anything more than an over hyped Democratic Rubio so far.
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heatcharger
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2017, 04:44:25 pm »

I'd give up on politics for a little while. It'd be clear to me at that point that the Democratic Party will never change in the way it should. Maybe I'll focus on local politics, see what I can do in Louisiana or Georgia regarding activism, but federal politics would be a sport I'd no longer want to spectate.

You’d be so dismayed by a president who supports single-payer that you’d stop caring about politics.

Even apolitical dullards know better than to blindly take everything a politician says at face value. Harris only cynically came out in favor of Medicare for All after she was (rightfully) pressured to endorse it. There's absolutely no reason to think that she'd govern any differently than Obama did, and no, that's not a good thing.

Not even the point I'm making. White Trash has said in the past single-payer should be a litmus test for Democratic leaders, but he seems willing to throw it out the window if the person doesn't check off his demographic wishlist. If you want identity politics, at least be honest about it.
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Nationalist Leftist
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2017, 04:50:57 pm »

I don't like the direction that Kamala Harris would take the party demographically, but politically she's fine, I guess.

Edit: I mean this like moderate hero suburbanization, not in any other way
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White Trash
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2017, 04:55:47 pm »

I'd give up on politics for a little while. It'd be clear to me at that point that the Democratic Party will never change in the way it should. Maybe I'll focus on local politics, see what I can do in Louisiana or Georgia regarding activism, but federal politics would be a sport I'd no longer want to spectate.

You’d be so dismayed by a president who supports single-payer that you’d stop caring about politics.

Even apolitical dullards know better than to blindly take everything a politician says at face value. Harris only cynically came out in favor of Medicare for All after she was (rightfully) pressured to endorse it. There's absolutely no reason to think that she'd govern any differently than Obama did, and no, that's not a good thing.

Not even the point I'm making. White Trash has said in the past single-payer should be a litmus test for Democratic leaders, but he seems willing to throw it out the window if the person doesn't check off his demographic wishlist. If you want identity politics, at least be honest about it.
It isn't a demographic wishlist, I'm not tossing Harris out because of anything having to do with her demographic. I'm merely stating that when it comes to ideology and what issues she's focusing on, she isn't for me.

You're taking this way too seriously my man, in an election between Trump and Harris I will most certainly vote the latter. I'm just saying that it would be clear that rural Americans aren't getting the President they want per se.
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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2017, 05:03:54 pm »

There's absolutely no reason to think that she'd govern any differently than Obama did, and no, that's not a good thing.

Are all black Democrats corporatist and/or bad in your view? (Harris, Obama, Booker)

This appears to be a common thread with the Berniecrats. Hmm...
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heatcharger
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2017, 05:08:49 pm »

You're taking this way too seriously my man, in an election between Trump and Harris I will most certainly vote the latter. I'm just saying that it would be clear that rural Americans aren't getting the President they want per se.

Alright then, I just don't get why you'd stop caring about national politics if Harris were to become. The world doesn't stop moving once the person you want to win does or doesn't get elected, and politics will certainly go on.
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White Trash
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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2017, 05:15:15 pm »

You're taking this way too seriously my man, in an election between Trump and Harris I will most certainly vote the latter. I'm just saying that it would be clear that rural Americans aren't getting the President they want per se.

Alright then, I just don't get why you'd stop caring about national politics if Harris were to become. The world doesn't stop moving once the person you want to win does or doesn't get elected, and politics will certainly go on.
Because I've been a conscious witness to four Presidential elections in which the livelihoods of people in my community didn't get any better. President Harris or not, I may give up on federal politics anyway. There is so little for an individual of working-class or middle-class background to actually have an effect.
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2017, 05:45:46 pm »

There's absolutely no reason to think that she'd govern any differently than Obama did, and no, that's not a good thing.

Are all black Democrats corporatist and/or bad in your view? (Harris, Obama, Booker)

This appears to be a common thread with the Berniecrats. Hmm...

It's especially jarring on a forum that has to change its pants every time someone mentions Steve Bullock, Jeff Merkley, or Sherrod Brown.
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#GravelGang
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« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2017, 05:47:37 pm »

You're taking this way too seriously my man, in an election between Trump and Harris I will most certainly vote the latter. I'm just saying that it would be clear that rural Americans aren't getting the President they want per se.

Alright then, I just don't get why you'd stop caring about national politics if Harris were to become. The world doesn't stop moving once the person you want to win does or doesn't get elected, and politics will certainly go on.

That's easy for you to say when your community's level of development hasn't stagnated in the '60s and been systematically ignored for decades by politicians from both political parties. Have you actually spent a lot of time in rural America? It's littered with dilapidated buildings, crumbling infrastructure, shuttered stores, and broken families. Don't even try preaching that right-wing "personal responsibility" bs. Every community and person has a right to dignity and development; our leadership has intentionally ignored these places and people and, when they occasionally make overtures towards them, its solely to gin up some votes then quickly ignore them again. Voter turnout is barely above 50% in our country due to justifiable cynicism aimed at a system that focuses exclusively on the interests of upper-middle-class people in metropolitan areas - everyone else can kick rocks.

White Trash isn't making some identity politics argument any more than you would be if the government let your community rot for decades and you demanded change. I know a lot of folks like you enjoy blaming rural and working class Whites for Trump's victory, but his base has always been the White middle and upper classes. Trump won the suburbs and he won college educated White voters. Congressional Republicans dominated among those same groups as well, even if they split the ticket between Clinton and the Congressional GOP. There may be more explicit bigotry among the White working classes, but they'd be more open to policies that benefit a multiracial, multicultural working class than the DLC's beloved suburbanites who're more interested in virtue signaling and balanced budgets than lifting people out of poverty. Based on social scientific research, latent racism exists to the same degree among college-educated White people as among non-college educated Whites. Yet, people still want to pretend like one group is deplorable and the other isn't.

Yes, this is a bit of a rant, but it's for a reason. Nobody but assholes dislike Kamala Harris because she's non-White or a woman; it's not even necessarily anything personal. It's simply that she doesn't have the background of working with rural communities, which is what dominates between the coasts. As AndrewCA pointed out, she also never bothered to support single-payer until she was pressured into it; Jacobin Magazine has a good article on her. They also have one on Kirsten Gillibrand. Folks like Bullock, Edwards, and Manchin aren't necessarily the most progressive of candidates, even on economic issues, but they're at least aware of rural issues and how to relate to folks from those areas. And it's not due to their race that they're liked by rural Democrats, who're largely White, it's their more working class and/or rural background. Give us a White, African American, Hispanic or whatever racial candidate who can connect with us, represent our interests and communities, and we'd turnout for them. Why do you think Obama did so well in '08 and '12 in rural areas, even compared to Gore and Kerry? He won freaking Indiana! Obama could connect with working class and rural White voters. Trump would've lost to Obama in 2012 at the same rate Romney did or even worse.
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heatcharger
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« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2017, 07:23:43 pm »

Have you actually spent a lot of time in rural America?

Half of my family comes from the Corn Belt in the Midwest. I've been out to rural central and eastern VA plenty of times. One thing that I know for sure is that not all rural areas are homogeneous -- you may envision industrial towns in the Midwest but I also think about farming communities in the Central Plains and majority-black districts in the South. There are some rural areas that have thoroughly enjoyed the benefits of the modern agricultural economy; there are others that have historically never had the kind of education, health care, housing, and economic development one would like to see. This is part of why the casting of rural areas as decaying wastelands is hardly productive since it encompasses such a broad group of people.

My question is why is Kamala Harris not qualified to act on rural issues because she's from California, and specifically Oakland? I swear, left-wingers have now internalized the long-standing Republican talking point that Democrats from the coasts are "out-of-touch", and this is a very bad development considering a vast majority of voters in the coastal cities are loyal Democrats who show up and support liberal policies.

Why do you think Obama did so well in '08 and '12 in rural areas, even compared to Gore and Kerry? He won freaking Indiana! Obama could connect with working class and rural White voters. Trump would've lost to Obama in 2012 at the same rate Romney did or even worse.

Obama didn't do that well with working-class whites, he just didn't get obliterated which allowed him to focus on turnout in metropolitan areas and win key swing states. And while Obama did indeed provide the template for a modern Democrat to win the electoral college, I assure you that if Harris, Warren, or Gillibrand copied Obama's 2008 or 2012 campaign rhetoric verbatim it wouldn't have the same effect, even if Obama was pretty much a coastal liberal much like these three. I wonder why that is?
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Kringla Heimsins
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« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2017, 07:45:49 pm »

Quote
REEEEEEEEE
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2017, 07:45:57 pm »

I would bask in the tears of atlas teenagers who wouldn't fathom that a proud black woman just became President of the United States of America.

Are we sure she's black? She looks pretty white to me. I want to see her birth certificate.
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