Active Shooter Situation at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas

[Santander]

NRA comes out in support of regulation of bump stocks.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/top-house-republicans-open-to-legislation-regulating-bump-stocks/2017/10/05/4580cb54-a9dc-11e7-b3aa-c0e2e1d41e38_story.html?pushid=59d67fd7fc9a231d00000004&tid=notifi_push_breaking-news&utm_term=.fd1d69c7c0ea

Jesus Christ, can it be? Does the broken clock actually still have hands with which to be right?

No, they're cutting bump stocks loose before they take down more things with them.

[publicunofficial]

There's no legitimate second amendment defense in regards to bump stocks. They're an accessory, not the actual weapon itself.

Even then, the NRA has always fought bans on stuff like supressors or high-capacity magazines.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's more of the Republican / so-called Christian right's prosperity gospel nastiness. They believe that if you're a good/godly person then bad things cannot happen to you. Conversely, if you do have bad things happen to you, it's proof that God hates you and you're a bad person.  There's lots of self-reinforcing nuttiness involved, but that's the core of it.

Look up Calvinism and predestination for some idea of where it comes from. Most Republicans don't explicitly think of it in those terms, but that's where they're coming from. They believe everything - doctors who save their life, random chance of who gets hit by a bullet and how bad it is - are manifestations of divine favor or the lack thereof. Which is why they go on about prayer and God.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's more of the Republican / so-called Christian right's prosperity gospel nastiness. They believe that if you're a good/godly person then bad things cannot happen to you. Conversely, if you do have bad things happen to you, it's proof that God hates you and you're a bad person.  There's lots of self-reinforcing nuttiness involved, but that's the core of it.

Look up Calvinism and predestination for some idea of where it comes from. Most Republicans don't explicitly think of it in those terms, but that's where they're coming from. They believe everything - doctors who save their life, random chance of who gets hit by a bullet and how bad it is - are manifestations of divine favor or the lack thereof. Which is why they go on about prayer and God.

Usually I try not to be cynical or reductionist when thinking about politics, but I think it's more likely here that they are hypocritical lying pieces of sh**t who don't believe much of what they are saying.

[Koharu]

While I am highly skeptical of that post/conspiracy theories about the event, I AM nervous that instead of dealing with the real problem, we're now going to go for almost TSA levels of security at hotels. It's already being talked about and it's ridiculous.

I heard an interview yesterday with Obama's head of Homeland Security, and she was talking about how people should have been suspicious/seen all the guns and told someone. That's just so ridiculous. Dude likely had the guns in luggage that didn't look like it was holding weapons, and most likely kept them hidden until he set up. Housekeeping at a place like that would have it drilled into their heads not to snoop. No one's going to be suspicious of a large amount of luggage: some people take 209348 pairs of shoes with them to Vegas. Or whatever. And even if someone saw/realized it was weapons, they're not going to report it. They'd most likely get fired for that, because it would still be considered snooping and/or snitching.

So, yeah, metal detectors at hotels is where we're apparently going this time to avoid talking about guns. Which is ridiculous. Most people don't care about hunting rifles and shotguns. We do care about assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons. Let's get rid of those.

Highly unlikely.  We didn't see metal detectors on college campuses after Virginia Tech or at nightclubs after Pulse, I don't see why this event would be any different. 

Sorry for the delay in responding; I was out of town and without real internet.

I disagree. For whatever reason, people are much more riled up about this event than previous shootings. Virginia Tech didn't seem to capture the national attention the way this event did. While the Orlando shooting did capture the national attention for a short while, I think many Americans dismissed it because it was in a night club, which is not something everyone uses, and of course they labeled it as extremist terrorism.

But this event is sticking with the public for several news cycles, with obsessive replaying of the information. In addition, hotels are something used by most people on a fairly regular basis.

Though the talk about hotel safety has already calmed down--I think the scapegoat has now switched to bumpstocks rather than hotels. If there hadn't been bumpstocks, though, I think we would still be seeing a lot of heat on the hotels. I do not think now there will be a call for increased security in hotels, but it depends on how things go with the bumpstocks and also if a "motive" is found and how the next few weeks go in regards to big news. If this stays in the public's mind for a while, there may still be some attempts to tighten security at hotels.

[Tintrlvr]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's more of the Republican / so-called Christian right's prosperity gospel nastiness. They believe that if you're a good/godly person then bad things cannot happen to you. Conversely, if you do have bad things happen to you, it's proof that God hates you and you're a bad person.  There's lots of self-reinforcing nuttiness involved, but that's the core of it.

Look up Calvinism and predestination for some idea of where it comes from. Most Republicans don't explicitly think of it in those terms, but that's where they're coming from. They believe everything - doctors who save their life, random chance of who gets hit by a bullet and how bad it is - are manifestations of divine favor or the lack thereof. Which is why they go on about prayer and God.

Shouldn't Scalise be having some self-doubt then, after being badly injured in a shooting that could have only happened if he were a bad person?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's more of the Republican / so-called Christian right's prosperity gospel nastiness. They believe that if you're a good/godly person then bad things cannot happen to you. Conversely, if you do have bad things happen to you, it's proof that God hates you and you're a bad person.  There's lots of self-reinforcing nuttiness involved, but that's the core of it.

Look up Calvinism and predestination for some idea of where it comes from. Most Republicans don't explicitly think of it in those terms, but that's where they're coming from. They believe everything - doctors who save their life, random chance of who gets hit by a bullet and how bad it is - are manifestations of divine favor or the lack thereof. Which is why they go on about prayer and God.

Shouldn't Scalise be having some self-doubt then, after being badly injured in a shooting that could have only happened if he were a bad person?

Nope. God was just testing him, you see. Or maybe the gunman was an agent of evil/Satan and only God's intervention saved him from certain death. It's endlessly flexible.

The prosperity gospel nonsense and it's derivatives are why I'm so caustically dismissive of American-style right-wing Christianity. Like the vile crap you get from ISIS and their Saudi-funded fellow travellers in Islamic extremisim, it's not really a religion. It certainly lacks all the positive upsides you see in religions -including Christianity and Islam- around the world. It's really nothing but a comforting prop to justify their own delusions.

[Alabama_Indy10]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's terrible because you don't agree with it.. I believe that's a perfectly good response.

[Don Vito Corleone]

Have we got a motive yet?

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's terrible because you don't agree with it.. I believe that's a perfectly good response.

It's a man whose job is to write and debate laws is saying we should pray instead of writing and debate laws. If you and him want to pray for victims, that is good and I will not stop you. But there is zero evidence that prayer will help the wounded or prevent further shootings. To suggest otherwise in the absence of good faith efforts to address problems through policy is horrifyingly negligent for a policymaker.

[Badger]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's terrible because you don't agree with it.. I believe that's a perfectly good response.

This "rise above politics in times of national tragedy" bit would be more compelling if the White House (and I GUARANTEE you the NRA and RNC as well) distributed talking points lists to political allies within hours of the shooting. In fact, the whole "lets unite in this time of tragedy, not make political points" was top on the list of political points to make.

[Alabama_Indy10]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's terrible because you don't agree with it.. I believe that's a perfectly good response.

It's a man whose job is to write and debate laws is saying we should pray instead of writing and debate laws. If you and him want to pray for victims, that is good and I will not stop you. But there is zero evidence that prayer will help the wounded or prevent further shootings. To suggest otherwise in the absence of good faith efforts to address problems through policy is horrifyingly negligent for a policymaker.

He was saying that we should be praying for the victims of the massacre before we go out and try to change the laws.. We should definitely still be praying for these people. Particularly those still fighting for their lives and the families of those who were killed. Plus, I didn't know you were such an enlightened theologist.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's terrible because you don't agree with it.. I believe that's a perfectly good response.

This "rise above politics in times of national tragedy" bit would be more compelling if the White House (and I GUARANTEE you the NRA and RNC as well) distributed talking points lists to political allies within hours of the shooting. In fact, the whole "lets unite in this time of tragedy, not make political points" was top on the list of political points to make.

That's standard practice, i.e., literally BOTH SIDES.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's terrible because you don't agree with it.. I believe that's a perfectly good response.

It's a man whose job is to write and debate laws is saying we should pray instead of writing and debate laws. If you and him want to pray for victims, that is good and I will not stop you. But there is zero evidence that prayer will help the wounded or prevent further shootings. To suggest otherwise in the absence of good faith efforts to address problems through policy is horrifyingly negligent for a policymaker.

He was saying that we should be praying for the victims of the massacre before we go out and try to change the laws.. We should definitely still be praying for these people. Particularly those still fighting for their lives and the families of those who were killed. Plus, I didn't know you were such an enlightened theologist.

No offense, but that's really dumb. Is your prayer supposed to be so all-consuming that you are incapable of doing anything else concurrently? Is it like the sabbath where you aren't allowed to do certain things (like your job) when you are praying for these people to recover? Should Scalise be doing interviews at all if he's spending all of his time praying and shutting down debate?

[Alabama_Indy10]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's terrible because you don't agree with it.. I believe that's a perfectly good response.

It's a man whose job is to write and debate laws is saying we should pray instead of writing and debate laws. If you and him want to pray for victims, that is good and I will not stop you. But there is zero evidence that prayer will help the wounded or prevent further shootings. To suggest otherwise in the absence of good faith efforts to address problems through policy is horrifyingly negligent for a policymaker.

He was saying that we should be praying for the victims of the massacre before we go out and try to change the laws.. We should definitely still be praying for these people. Particularly those still fighting for their lives and the families of those who were killed. Plus, I didn't know you were such an enlightened theologist.

No offense, but that's really dumb. Is your prayer supposed to be so all-consuming that you are incapable of doing anything else concurrently? Is it like the sabbath where you aren't allowed to do certain things (like your job) when you are praying for these people to recover? Should Scalise be doing interviews at all if he's spending all of his time praying and shutting down debate?

It's really dumb to be praying for these victims? Alright.. Great to know where you stand on this.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

He was saying that we should be praying for the victims of the massacre before we go out and try to change the laws.. We should definitely still be praying for these people. Particularly those still fighting for their lives and the families of those who were killed. Plus, I didn't know you were such an enlightened theologist.

No offense, but that's really dumb. Is your prayer supposed to be so all-consuming that you are incapable of doing anything else concurrently? Is it like the sabbath where you aren't allowed to do certain things (like your job) when you are praying for these people to recover? Should Scalise be doing interviews at all if he's spending all of his time praying and shutting down debate?

It's really dumb to be praying for these victims? Alright.. Great to know where you stand on this.

nice try

It's dumb to say that we should be so busy praying that we can't think about trying to enact laws. It's a dumb false dichotomy to say that you can either pray or legislate. Answer my questions from above: why is Scalise doing interviews if he's supposed to be praying all the time? I have a hard time believing that he and others are praying to hard that they don't have any time left over for doing their jobs.

If you want to pray, that's cool. I'm not spiritual but I know a lot of people who are who say that prayer is a great way for them to contemplate, get closer to God, etc. So, for an individual or even a community, I can respect it as a mechanism for emotional therapy in dealing with a crisis. But don't act like it's actually doing substantial good to address the issues at hand. Scalise is using prayer as a shield to protect him from admitting that he is in favor of doing nothing to stop future shootings.

[Alabama_Indy10]

He was saying that we should be praying for the victims of the massacre before we go out and try to change the laws.. We should definitely still be praying for these people. Particularly those still fighting for their lives and the families of those who were killed. Plus, I didn't know you were such an enlightened theologist.

No offense, but that's really dumb. Is your prayer supposed to be so all-consuming that you are incapable of doing anything else concurrently? Is it like the sabbath where you aren't allowed to do certain things (like your job) when you are praying for these people to recover? Should Scalise be doing interviews at all if he's spending all of his time praying and shutting down debate?

It's really dumb to be praying for these victims? Alright.. Great to know where you stand on this.

nice try

It's dumb to say that we should be so busy praying that we can't think about trying to enact laws. It's a dumb false dichotomy to say that you can either pray or legislate. Answer my questions from above: why is Scalise doing interviews if he's supposed to be praying all the time? I have a hard time believing that he and others are praying to hard that they don't have any time left over for doing their jobs.

If you want to pray, that's cool. I'm not spiritual but I know a lot of people who are who say that prayer is a great way for them to contemplate, get closer to God, etc. So, for an individual or even a community, I can respect it as a mechanism for emotional therapy in dealing with a crisis. But don't act like it's actually doing substantial good to address the issues at hand. Scalise is using prayer as a shield to protect him from admitting that he is in favor of doing nothing to stop future shootings.

Everybody knows he’s not praying every second of every day. No one is. I don’t see what that has to do with your argument. He’s wanting us to pray for the victims and unite together as Americans before the political bickering over gun control begins.

[Adam Griffin]

Steve Scalise chimes in with a terrible opinion on gun control:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/steve-scalise-says-las-vegas-shooting-hasnt-changed-stance-gun-control/

Unbelievable. People who advocate prayer as a substitute for assistance or policy action of any kind are despicable. I can accept that argument that people benefit from prayer because it allows them to contemplate and reach spiritual clarity. But saying that somehow prayer benefits victims of actual violence, and is somehow more important than having a substantial debate about how to solve these issues, is horrendous beyond words. People who believe in prayer over legislating in this country shouldn't be allowed to write or vote on laws.

Also the mention to law enforcement and not to medical professionals and first responders who saved his life is also pretty gross. Those doctors must have prayed pretty damn hard when he entered the ER this summer.

It's terrible because you don't agree with it.. I believe that's a perfectly good response.

This "rise above politics in times of national tragedy" bit would be more compelling if the White House (and I GUARANTEE you the NRA and RNC as well) distributed talking points lists to political allies within hours of the shooting. In fact, the whole "lets unite in this time of tragedy, not make political points" was top on the list of political points to make.

That's standard practice, i.e., literally BOTH SIDES.

You might have a point there if your argument was rooted in the reality that both sides clearly say "now isn't the time for politics" and then clearly proceed to use talking points. But that isn't the reality: the reality is that one side openly says that "now is the time to talk about it" and the other side side says "now isn't the time for politics" but proceeds to be political anyway. That makes one side morally consistent and the other side a bunch of fycking hypocrites.