Republicans/Independents: What should the GOP economics be?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 10:05:43 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Economics (Moderator: Torie)
  Republicans/Independents: What should the GOP economics be?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Republicans/Independents: What should the GOP economics be?  (Read 1521 times)
Kingpoleon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,144
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: October 08, 2017, 02:52:48 PM »

What would you like to see the GOP agenda conform to? Reforming Medicaid and Medicare? Raising the Social Security age to 68 by 2028? Raising FICA taxes to the first $140,000? A federal sales tax? More funding for NASA?

Should income tax cuts, raised military spending, or balancing the budget be more important?
Logged
TPIG
ThatConservativeGuy
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,997
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 1.91


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2017, 03:07:05 PM »
« Edited: October 08, 2017, 03:09:05 PM by ThatConservativeGuy »

Social Security: Raise retirement age to 68,  means-test social security benefits so that the wealthy aren't receiving money they don't need.

Medicare/Medicaid: block grant the programs to allow the states to take care of their elderly and their poor the way they see best.

Trade: Pursue more free trade agreements, no tariffs/quotas or other impediments to trade

Taxes/spending/budget: lower corporate tax rate to 25%, lower the rates for the middle to lower class brackets, offset revenue losses by spending cuts, support a balanced-budget amendment
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,348


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2017, 03:24:57 PM »
« Edited: October 09, 2017, 01:14:56 AM by Old School Republican »

Tax Policy:


- Cut the top Business tax rate to 25%(this rate applies to any business which have 3 or more employees outside the owners family).

Make these as the rates:

0%: $0-$100,000
10%: $100,000- $500,000
15%: $500,000-$ 2,500,000
20%: $2,500,000-$ 5,000,000
22.5%: $5,000,000- $10,000,000
25%: $10,000,000- $20,000,000

Over 20,000,000 (a flat rate of 22.5%)

- Have the Income rates be(for Joint ):

0% : $0 -$30,000
15% : $30,000-$75,000
20% : $75,000 - $150,000
25% : $150,000 - $ 300,000
30% : $ 300,000- $600,000
35%:  $ 600,000- $1,000,000
39.6%: More than a million


-Keep the itemized deductions


How to pay for tax cut :
- Remove Carried Interest Loophole
- Put a 25% wealth tax on off shore tax havens in the first year you collect taxes from those havens
- Make Companies who outsource jobs pay a higher tax then those who dont


Budget Policy:


- Cut Military Spending by 15% over the next 10 years

- end  all Pork Barell Spending

- Give the President a Line Item Review Power(Which means after the president uses this new line item power the revised bill goes back to congress for an up and down vote , and if the revised bill fails the original bill goes back to the President where he must sign it or veto it fully)




How to reduce healthcare costs: Allow Prescription Drugs to be imported from Canada , and use that to lower drug prices in the US. Also open up state lines to lower cost of insurance.


Social Security:
Raise retirement age to 68, raise the cap for the payroll tax , and lower benefit to rich retirees .

Infrastructure:


- Invest between 500 billion - 1 trillion in Infrastructure over next 10 years (Use tax money you got from the offshore havens to pay for this , and some of the cuts in military spending)


Education Cost Reform:

- Limit the amount of student loans to cover the cost of an instate college(So around 20k-25k a year per student).

- Give companies tax breaks who pay for part or all of the cost of college for a student.


Reduce the costs of Welfare:


- Raise Min Wage to 10.50 (Inflation adjusted)

- Hire people who are on welfare to work on an infrastructure project(this should reduce unemployment rate)







Logged
PoliticalShelter
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 407
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2017, 04:11:05 PM »

The thing republicans have to remember is that federal spending is currently titled towards republican constituencies such as the wealthy, retirees and rural/suburbanites.

The republicans need to represent their own voters economic interest better, and that means they need to not only stop trying to implement draconian cuts to entitlements but also stop trying to radically rewrite the tax code and curtail deductions such as the mortgage interest deduction and the employer provided tax subsidy that their own voters rely on.

Their best strategy is present themselves as the defenders of the current amount of spending and oppose the democrats attempts to expand the welfare state that would benefit the democrats constituencies, instead of trying radically alter the current American fiscal system in a way that angers their own constituents.
Logged
RFayette
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,951
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2017, 06:05:52 PM »

Social Security: Raise retirement age to 68,  means-test social security benefits so that the wealthy aren't receiving money they don't need.

Medicare/Medicaid: block grant the programs to allow the states to take care of their elderly and their poor the way they see best.

Trade: Pursue more free trade agreements, no tariffs/quotas or other impediments to trade

Taxes/spending/budget: lower corporate tax rate to 25%, lower the rates for the middle to lower class brackets, offset revenue losses by spending cuts, support a balanced-budget amendment

I agree with all of this except the balanced-budget amendment, and I'd favor some renegotiation of trade deals to make them more favorable toward the US when possible.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderators
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2017, 08:32:34 PM »

The thing republicans have to remember is that federal spending is currently titled towards republican constituencies such as the wealthy, retirees and rural/suburbanites.

The republicans need to represent their own voters economic interest better, and that means they need to not only stop trying to implement draconian cuts to entitlements but also stop trying to radically rewrite the tax code and curtail deductions such as the mortgage interest deduction and the employer provided tax subsidy that their own voters rely on.

Their best strategy is present themselves as the defenders of the current amount of spending and oppose the democrats attempts to expand the welfare state that would benefit the democrats constituencies, instead of trying radically alter the current American fiscal system in a way that angers their own constituents.

Republicans have to realize that economic policy is driven by political realism, which is turn driven by partisan demographics.

That is why Trump got elected by abandoning neo-liberal orthodoxy on trade and immigration.
Logged
RINO Tom
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,999
United States


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -0.52

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2017, 11:33:44 AM »

I would like to see the GOP resemble a more "competent" argument that defined them during the New Deal Era.  Not necessarily "me tooism" of the Rockefeller Republicans, but I would be fine with them being associated with the status quo.  The top tax rates are fine right now.  Be the party that doesn't want to raise them further, not the party that wants them recklessly low.  That's just one example, but we used to have a reputation as the "smarter governing party," IMO, and it is easier to convince people that your way actually will benefit them (aka respond to a charge of a lack of empathy, a traditional criticism of "the right") than it is to convince them that you're, well, not crazy.
Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 40,237
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 04:59:09 PM »

Lift the cap on Social Security taxes and cut the taxation rate to make the raise revenue neutral.

Institute new tax rate in low 40% range for all annual income over $1 mil.

Apply ordinary income tax rates to hedge funds and their management.

Create a graduated tax rate for capital gains. Keep the 15% rate for annual income up to close to or at $100,000. Make the higher rates still less than ordinary income.

There's more, but that's a start.
Logged
Lechasseur
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 10,757


Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 3.13

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2017, 01:35:27 PM »

The thing republicans have to remember is that federal spending is currently titled towards republican constituencies such as the wealthy, retirees and rural/suburbanites.

The republicans need to represent their own voters economic interest better, and that means they need to not only stop trying to implement draconian cuts to entitlements but also stop trying to radically rewrite the tax code and curtail deductions such as the mortgage interest deduction and the employer provided tax subsidy that their own voters rely on.

Their best strategy is present themselves as the defenders of the current amount of spending and oppose the democrats attempts to expand the welfare state that would benefit the democrats constituencies, instead of trying radically alter the current American fiscal system in a way that angers their own constituents.

Republicans have to realize that economic policy is driven by political realism, which is turn driven by partisan demographics.

That is why Trump got elected by abandoning neo-liberal orthodoxy on trade and immigration.

This

I would like to see the GOP resemble a more "competent" argument that defined them during the New Deal Era.  Not necessarily "me tooism" of the Rockefeller Republicans, but I would be fine with them being associated with the status quo.  The top tax rates are fine right now.  Be the party that doesn't want to raise them further, not the party that wants them recklessly low.  That's just one example, but we used to have a reputation as the "smarter governing party," IMO, and it is easier to convince people that your way actually will benefit them (aka respond to a charge of a lack of empathy, a traditional criticism of "the right") than it is to convince them that you're, well, not crazy.

And this
Logged
Kingpoleon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,144
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2017, 03:46:41 PM »

Wow. Lechasseur, NCY, and RINO Tom just agreed on something. What’s next? Are RFayette and ER about to agree with you guys?
Logged
Santander
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,849
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: 4.00, S: 2.61


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2017, 04:12:47 PM »

End the economic hate crimes committed against the white working class.
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderators
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2017, 05:02:23 PM »
« Edited: October 20, 2017, 05:05:39 PM by People's Speaker North Carolina Yankee »

Wow. Lechasseur, NCY, and RINO Tom just agreed on something. What’s next? Are RFayette and ER about to agree with you guys?

RinoTom and I have years plus cooperation in working to beat back false narratives regarding the historical evolution of the Republican Party, including beating down this "Magical 1964 flip theory" that out does any Olympic level gymnast. Where we have differed more recently is that I take those trends and lessons and apply them to the current demographics and use that to base my analysis of thy the Party is acting as it is and what the future holds.

RinoTom sees the party through the lense of himself and himself as a Republican, and therefore if the Party shifts, he is naturally concerned of whether or not he will still have a place in the Party.

On thing I have seen from being in Atlasia so long, and witnessing it from the other end, the transformation of people which often happens with teenage Libertarians who become 20 year old liberals on this forum. In the Federalist Party, we often can get liberals who are comfortable in our party's more moderate wing, but Libertarians who were in the party as such and saw it as such, never can reassess it from another perspective. They see it as an extension of their past identity an identity they want to abandon completely and shifting from one caucus to the other within the same umbrella, just isn't in the cards.

Politics is a function of demographics, tribalism and identity. It was when Catholics voted 75% Democratic, Protestant New Englanders voted 75% Republican, Southern Protestants voted 80% Dem and African-Americans were 90% Republican where they could vote. The demographic alignments shift and the party's evolve slowly over time to match their demographics and the political reality that takes them from Base to Majority.

Republicans were Protectionists both because it was legacy benefit (kind of like Tax cuts today), "it benefited us financially 30 years ago it must always be true and beneficial", and because of political reality. How else do you get working class people to vote for you over the "democratic" Party, you protect their jobs. And such was necessary because the only way to win was to hold PA, MA, OH, ILL, MI and win IN and NY, since the Solid South was Solid Dem.

Right now tax cuts are new tariffs for the GOP. They are unified around them, it is perceived to benefit the donor base and it allows them to bring in college educated whites who most likely would not vote for Republicans were it not for the tax issue. It enables them to hold TX and AZ and win FL and NC.
Logged
OSR stands with Israel
Computer89
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 44,348


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 2.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2017, 05:39:50 PM »

Wow. Lechasseur, NCY, and RINO Tom just agreed on something. What’s next? Are RFayette and ER about to agree with you guys?


What do you think about my plan
Logged
mvd10
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,709


Political Matrix
E: 2.58, S: -2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2017, 06:08:48 PM »

I also largely agree with RINO Tom and NC Yankee. I'd like the GOP to push for serious revenue neutral tax reform, though I guess a small tax reduction is acceptable as long as it's part of an ambitious tax reform package that will actually make the tax system more efficient. But the GOP needs to ditch the 10% flat tax plans or the plans that would dramatically slash taxes in similar ways.

I used to be a fan of repealing the capital gains tax, but I've shifted to the left on this issue. I still oppose increasing the capital gains tax unless the revenue is used for a corporate tax cut, but repealing the capital gains tax would massively increase inequality and I don't think that the possible growth you get from a capital gains tax cut is worth that increase in inequality.

I still believe the top rate could be lowered (as marginal tax rates in some areas of the country still get really high), but only if it's paid for by limiting/repealing itemized deductions. The top rate should be closer to 35% than 25% anyway.

The thing most GOP tax plans do get right is that the corporate tax rate should be dramatically reduced, preferably to 15-20 percent (and it should be coupled with limiting or even repealing the corporate interest tax deduction). But I'm not sure what to do with pass-through businesses. Repealing corporate tax loopholes will also hurt a lot of pass-through businesses. Cutting the top income tax rate to make up for that will cut taxes for a lot of people who don't really need a tax cut. Creating a special rate for pass-through businesses would create a huge tax shelter (see: Kansas), but increasing taxes on pass-throughs also isn't really fair. I suppose you could largely keep the current tax system intact for pass-throughs while drastically reforming the corporate tax code, but that also would create some weird situations (pass-trough businesses having a lot of tax deductions which corporations don't have while also having higher marginal tax rates).

On the spending side I'd also like to see a consistent centre-right course. The GOP should focus on reforming entitlements and slowing down spending growth, but it shouldn't push for things like the Ryan budget (which is unrealistic, unpopular and also socially and economically damaging). But I do back slowly increasing the retirement age to 70 and reducing medicare spending (though the GOP should definitely not campaign on this, they should campaign on the more vague promise of reforming social security and medicare Tongue).

I largely support increasing legal immigration (as long as immigrants are willing to integrate in American society). But I do agree that the GOP should focus on border security. Immigration reform should include a pathway to citizenship or legal status, but it also definitely should include tough measures to promote border security (and no, that doesn't include a symbolic wall which won't achieve anything).

Personally I completely support free trade, including trade deals like NAFTA, TTIP and TPP. But I'm willing to accept some compromises on trade for the sake of electability (if it's really necessary). Then again, I'd never support actual hard protectionism.

On regulation I'd also support a more centrist approach. I strongly oppose populist (financial) regulations which sound great but don't work in reality, but I'd also be wary of a complete bonfire of regulation. Deregulation where it's possible, but don't repeat past mistakes. On unions I still favour a hard-right approach (including federal right to work).
Logged
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
Moderators
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 54,123
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2017, 06:44:48 PM »
« Edited: October 20, 2017, 06:47:08 PM by People's Speaker North Carolina Yankee »

Tax Policy:


- Cut the top Business tax rate to 25%(this rate applies to any business which have 3 or more employees outside the owners family).

Make these as the rates:

0%: $0-$100,000
10%: $100,000- $500,000
15%: $500,000-$ 2,500,000
20%: $2,500,000-$ 5,000,000
22.5%: $5,000,000- $10,000,000
25%: $10,000,000- $20,000,000

Over 20,000,000 (a flat rate of 22.5%)

- Have the Income rates be(for Joint ):

0% : $0 -$30,000
15% : $30,000-$75,000
20% : $75,000 - $150,000
25% : $150,000 - $ 300,000
30% : $ 300,000- $600,000
35%:  $ 600,000- $1,000,000
39.6%: More than a million


-Keep the itemized deductions


How to pay for tax cut :
- Remove Carried Interest Loophole
- Put a 25% wealth tax on off shore tax havens in the first year you collect taxes from those havens
- Make Companies who outsource jobs pay a higher tax then those who dont

I think there are two many brackets.

Budget Policy:


- Cut Military Spending by 15% over the next 10 years

- end  all Pork Barell Spending

- Give the President a Line Item Review Power(Which means after the president uses this new line item power the revised bill goes back to congress for an up and down vote , and if the revised bill fails the original bill goes back to the President where he must sign it or veto it fully)

I support a line item veto, but Congressional earmarks have been banned since 2010. As for the military spending, I think across the board cuts are a mistake but there are reforms that should occur starting first with an audit of the pentagon, aggressively pushing for procurement reform and then using the savings to ensure the troops have the equipment that they need.




How to reduce healthcare costs: Allow Prescription Drugs to be imported from Canada , and use that to lower drug prices in the US. Also open up state lines to lower cost of insurance.

Healthcare costs source from more than just drug costs though. You need a reform of the delivery system. All this debate and focus is on the "coverage and access". Beyond that we have to address payment schemes, delivery, integration of technology and other ways to improve outcomes and reduce costs.


Social Security:
Raise retirement age to 68, raise the cap for the payroll tax , and lower benefit to rich retirees .
Infrastructure:

- Invest between 500 billion - 1 trillion in Infrastructure over next 10 years (Use tax money you got from the offshore havens to pay for this , and some of the cuts in military spending)

I would support these measures, but I would advise that the Highway Trust fund, the grid and such need ongoing money sources for maintenance and modernization. The Gas tax should be raised and pegged to the cost of Gasoline so that if it does spike it goes down to ease the burden but gasoline is cheap right now. Longer term they need to look at alternative sources for once most of the vehicles will be electric. I think it is very fiscally conservative to say that if you use something, you should help pay for its upkeep and we need to look at this from a sustainability perspective. We could spend $1 Trillion in new projects and catching up, but fall behind again if their isn't sufficient on-going revenues.

Education Cost Reform:

- Limit the amount of student loans to cover the cost of an instate college(So around 20k-25k a year per student).

- Give companies tax breaks who pay for part or all of the cost of college for a student.

The way that college education has been handled is basically to throw gasoline on the fire of tuition inflation, which spills over into health care costs because doctors need to pay off their college loans. I think there should be caps, I think we should encourage responsibility in education and encourage people to pursue fields that will produce incomes.


Reduce the costs of Welfare:


- Raise Min Wage to 10.50 (Inflation adjusted)

- Hire people who are on welfare to work on an infrastructure project(this should reduce unemployment rate)

Raising the minimum wage does help reduce the deficit and encourages people to work, but it also risks further automation and that is something that has to be concerned about. It has to be balanced since it means at some point diminishing returns as jobs lost from small businesses outweigh the increase in incomes. So at some point you have to switch over and rely on the EITC to accomplish the same effect and rely less on the minimum wage. I would be fine with $9.15 or $9.50. And that is still substantial increase from current rates, a 30% increase in gross income for the lowest paid workers. Between the two, you could see a boost of disposable incomes among that group increasing 40% to 45% depending on how it is structured and that impact would be very positive on the economic growth rate.

As for the infrastructure, there are some opportunities, but construction is a skilled workforce now. It is not like in the 1930's when you just hand someone a shovel and a hammer. I saw a House Hearing on this a week ago, that talked about how the average age for a skilled construction worker (I would assume for roads), is 53 and rising fast and that touches back to the education issue as well.

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said recently, is that one of the big hindrances facing the economy is the lack of skilled workers and when we say that we often think "More college, More College" but one of the two skills he listed were computers, the other was welding, a trade skill. There has to be a balanced education policy and our policy the last few years has basically been skewed towards trying to make everyone a Stem, Lawyer or a Doctor, and there is more to it then that.

We start investing in infrastructure over a 10 year period and a provide a long term funding source for the highway fund suddenly the infrastructure issue is going to be moving from one of funding to one of finding the skilled workers and those wages will be through the roof because of shortages.

Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.058 seconds with 11 queries.