Confederate Monuments Removal Cost

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

You're just mad they won't give it to some rich people to "stimulate job growth" for their portfolio manager's fee.

You're constant need to "burn" Grumps is almost akin to the constant desire of a sexual sadist to brand a victim. It's getting quite odd. At least do it in style like your Ohian friend.

[Maxwell]

sounds like gibberish numbers. how about selling off dumb statutes to a private individual who will tear them to bits, as any not hateful person would? that GIVES the state revenue.

I mean they could take the statutes and put them on their dumb lawn. idc. the state shouldn't be perpetuating that confederate = good.

Market solutions folks, we gotta think market solutions.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Charlottesville http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/removal-of-lee-jackson-statues-could-cost-charlottesville/article_3b328d33-2f05-5efe-b1e7-9650164522f4.html

New Orleans  http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/us/new-orleans-confederate-monument-removal-price-trnd/index.html

Two cities - $2.8 million.  They could help a lot people who are truly in need in their cities with this kind of money.

That money would be spent on maintenance over time anyway. Non-story.

What sort of maintenance is this that costs so much?

[Devout Centrist]

You're all going about this the wrong way. I'm willing to bet if we did all of these statue removals Durham style, the costs would be negligible.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Charlottesville http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/removal-of-lee-jackson-statues-could-cost-charlottesville/article_3b328d33-2f05-5efe-b1e7-9650164522f4.html

New Orleans  http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/us/new-orleans-confederate-monument-removal-price-trnd/index.html

Two cities - $2.8 million.  They could help a lot people who are truly in need in their cities with this kind of money.

That money would be spent on maintenance over time anyway. Non-story.

What sort of maintenance is this that costs so much?

Tintman can answer. I have no clue. They'll probably put a different monument there which will need maintenance.

[swf541]

You're all going about this the wrong way. I'm willing to bet if we did all of these statue removals Durham style, the costs would be negligible.

100% agreed and is more patriotic on top of it.

[136or142]

Charlottesville http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/removal-of-lee-jackson-statues-could-cost-charlottesville/article_3b328d33-2f05-5efe-b1e7-9650164522f4.html

New Orleans  http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/us/new-orleans-confederate-monument-removal-price-trnd/index.html

Two cities - $2.8 million.  They could help a lot people who are truly in need in their cities with this kind of money.

That money would be spent on maintenance over time anyway. Non-story.

What sort of maintenance is this that costs so much?

On the other hand, why should it cost $2.8 million to remove a bunch of statues?  It doesn't cost anywhere near that much when a person moves to move their stuff.

[Mr. Reactionary]

Charlottesville http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/removal-of-lee-jackson-statues-could-cost-charlottesville/article_3b328d33-2f05-5efe-b1e7-9650164522f4.html

New Orleans  http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/us/new-orleans-confederate-monument-removal-price-trnd/index.html

Two cities - $2.8 million.  They could help a lot people who are truly in need in their cities with this kind of money.

That money would be spent on maintenance over time anyway. Non-story.

What sort of maintenance is this that costs so much?

On the other hand, why should it cost $2.8 million to remove a bunch of statues?  It doesn't cost anywhere near that much when a person moves to move their stuff.

Persons don't normally have to rent heavy machinery and large work trucks and government contractors who make prevailing wages and file an EIS and sue in court to remove their stuff. Apparently every time the flaggers pulled the tarp off the Lee statue it cost several thousand dollars to send a cherry picker out to place it back on. Local government ...

[publicunofficial]

It's because they had to keep them whole in order to protect the feelings of "muh history " snowflakes. They could've just hired a group of teenagers with sledgehammers for $100.

Hell turn it into a community event. Every citizen gets a swing for $5.

[Blackacre]

It's because they had to keep them whole in order to protect the feelings of "muh history " snowflakes. They could've just hired a group of teenagers with sledgehammers for $100.

Hell turn it into a community event. Every citizen gets a swing for $5.

The idea of putting them in museums is pretty popular, which is more expensive than destroying them, so

[136or142]

Charlottesville http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/removal-of-lee-jackson-statues-could-cost-charlottesville/article_3b328d33-2f05-5efe-b1e7-9650164522f4.html

New Orleans  http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/us/new-orleans-confederate-monument-removal-price-trnd/index.html

Two cities - $2.8 million.  They could help a lot people who are truly in need in their cities with this kind of money.

That money would be spent on maintenance over time anyway. Non-story.

What sort of maintenance is this that costs so much?

On the other hand, why should it cost $2.8 million to remove a bunch of statues?  It doesn't cost anywhere near that much when a person moves to move their stuff.

Persons don't normally have to rent heavy machinery and large work trucks and government contractors who make prevailing wages and file an EIS and sue in court to remove their stuff. Apparently every time the flaggers pulled the tarp off the Lee statue it cost several thousand dollars to send a cherry picker out to place it back on. Local government ...

It stands to reason then that the same local governments that spend much more than necessary to take down the statues would also spend much more than necessary to maintain the statues.

[Gustaf]

Trumpists make dumb argument, can't even pretend to defend it against obvious counters. Not big news tbh.

I don't understand why people like Grumps insist on embarrassing themselves like this over and over though.

[The Mikado]

It's because they had to keep them whole in order to protect the feelings of "muh history " snowflakes. They could've just hired a group of teenagers with sledgehammers for $100.

Hell turn it into a community event. Every citizen gets a swing for $5.

I strongly disapprove of destroying these things and negating their value for researchers and historians for centuries to come. Move them into a historical society or a museum rather than smashing them so we don't have access to them anymore.

[Inmate Trump]

When people advocate for Confederate monuments and other symbols they are literally advocating for something that is un-American and unpatriotic.

If we had Nazi symbols on government property, would we not spend money to remove them?

Both were enemies of the country, and it's the same principle.  Anyone who doesn't realize that the Confederacy was an enemy of our country surely failed US History.

[Fuzzy Bear]

When people advocate for Confederate monuments and other symbols they are literally advocating for something that is un-American and unpatriotic.

If we had Nazi symbols on government property, would we not spend money to remove them?

Both were enemies of the country, and it's the same principle.  Anyone who doesn't realize that the Confederacy was an enemy of our country surely failed US History.

I'm not a fan of the Confederacy, but to compare the Confederacy with Nazi Germany is a false equivalency.  Neo-Confederates and Confederate Revivalists are a different matter. 

Folks have been raised to believe Lee, Jackson, Davis, et al were heroes.  And, at a certain level, they were heroic.  They were brave in battle, they were courageous, and Davis was a courageous President of the Confederacy.  Were they racists?  Davis certainly was, and they probably all were by today's standards, and they defended the indefensible of slavery, but there were other issues that drove the Civil War besides the slave question.

This yanking out of monuments, the "kneelers" at football games; there is absolutely no good will in how they go about things.  I'm not saying that this isn't a case of the shoe being on the other foot; no one cared about the thoughts and feelings of blacks for a century after Appomattox, save for Reconstruction.  And the revival of Confederate imagery during the Civil Rights Revolution years are isn't about history at all.  But a good part of the "dig 'em up" crowd's actions are a case of taking two (2) wrongs and making a right; it never works.  The wrong is in the total disregard for the other side. 

 

[Frodo]

I don't think we should forget that Lee himself would not have approved any of this Confederacy/Lost Cause Revivalism that we saw beginning in the late 19th century.   That's something I wish all those white nationalists/supremacists would remember.  He placed reconciliation first and foremost. 

[Fuzzy Bear]

I don't think we should forget that Lee himself would not have approved any of this Confederacy/Lost Cause Revivalism that we saw beginning in the late 19th century.   That's something I wish all those white nationalists/supremacists would remember.  He placed reconciliation first and foremost. 

Very true.  The revivalism was mostly the work of Jefferson Davis.

Lee died in 1870; if he had been a revivalist, it wouldn't have been tolerated at that date.

[Inmate Trump]

When people advocate for Confederate monuments and other symbols they are literally advocating for something that is un-American and unpatriotic.

If we had Nazi symbols on government property, would we not spend money to remove them?

Both were enemies of the country, and it's the same principle.  Anyone who doesn't realize that the Confederacy was an enemy of our country surely failed US History.

I'm not a fan of the Confederacy, but to compare the Confederacy with Nazi Germany is a false equivalency.  Neo-Confederates and Confederate Revivalists are a different matter. 

Folks have been raised to believe Lee, Jackson, Davis, et al were heroes.  And, at a certain level, they were heroic.  They were brave in battle, they were courageous, and Davis was a courageous President of the Confederacy.  Were they racists?  Davis certainly was, and they probably all were by today's standards, and they defended the indefensible of slavery, but there were other issues that drove the Civil War besides the slave question.

This yanking out of monuments, the "kneelers" at football games; there is absolutely no good will in how they go about things.  I'm not saying that this isn't a case of the shoe being on the other foot; no one cared about the thoughts and feelings of blacks for a century after Appomattox, save for Reconstruction.  And the revival of Confederate imagery during the Civil Rights Revolution years are isn't about history at all.  But a good part of the "dig 'em up" crowd's actions are a case of taking two (2) wrongs and making a right; it never works.  The wrong is in the total disregard for the other side. 

 

My point was more that both were enemies of the United States and neither should be celebrated.  Being raised in the south, I certainly understand that most people here are brought up believing the “heroes” of the Confederacy are heroes of the United States. It’s wrong to believe that and people need to be called out on it.  These men were not patriots, they were traitors.  I know many southerners do not see that, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

[136or142]

When people advocate for Confederate monuments and other symbols they are literally advocating for something that is un-American and unpatriotic.

If we had Nazi symbols on government property, would we not spend money to remove them?

Both were enemies of the country, and it's the same principle.  Anyone who doesn't realize that the Confederacy was an enemy of our country surely failed US History.

I'm not a fan of the Confederacy, but to compare the Confederacy with Nazi Germany is a false equivalency.  Neo-Confederates and Confederate Revivalists are a different matter.  

Folks have been raised to believe Lee, Jackson, Davis, et al were heroes.  And, at a certain level, they were heroic.  They were brave in battle, they were courageous, and Davis was a courageous President of the Confederacy.  Were they racists?  Davis certainly was, and they probably all were by today's standards, and they defended the indefensible of slavery, but there were other issues that drove the Civil War besides the slave question.

This yanking out of monuments, the "kneelers" at football games; there is absolutely no good will in how they go about things.  I'm not saying that this isn't a case of the shoe being on the other foot; no one cared about the thoughts and feelings of blacks for a century after Appomattox, save for Reconstruction.  And the revival of Confederate imagery during the Civil Rights Revolution years are isn't about history at all.  But a good part of the "dig 'em up" crowd's actions are a case of taking two (2) wrongs and making a right; it never works.  The wrong is in the total disregard for the other side.  

 

My point was more that both were enemies of the United States and neither should be celebrated.  Being raised in the south, I certainly understand that most people here are brought up believing the “heroes” of the Confederacy are heroes of the United States. It’s wrong to believe that and people need to be called out on it.  These men were not patriots, they were traitors.  I know many southerners do not see that, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

First, going by today's standards almost every white person in America was a racist during the Civil War. Just because the Union didn't want slavery didnt make them not racist. Minorities were treated like garbage well after the Civil War in Union and Confederate states alike.

Second, my ancestors were Americans long before, during and after the war. They were called the Confederate States of America. Still America, just with a different government set up so to call that anything else is stupid.
 So I guess anyone who signs a petition anywhere in Texas of California arguing for secession is just as unamerican and unpatriotic by your definition as the Confederates were.

They also started the Civil War by firing on Fort Sumter.  So, for what it's worth, it was more than secession.  It also wasn't a legal secession as it was a unilateral declaration of independence, and not a negotiated secession.

In regards to the prior post.  No, ultimately all of the other 'issues' get back to slavery.  There was no other reason for the South to secede other than slavery.

[Mr. Reactionary]

When people advocate for Confederate monuments and other symbols they are literally advocating for something that is un-American and unpatriotic.

If we had Nazi symbols on government property, would we not spend money to remove them?

Both were enemies of the country, and it's the same principle.  Anyone who doesn't realize that the Confederacy was an enemy of our country surely failed US History.

I'm not a fan of the Confederacy, but to compare the Confederacy with Nazi Germany is a false equivalency.  Neo-Confederates and Confederate Revivalists are a different matter. 

Folks have been raised to believe Lee, Jackson, Davis, et al were heroes.  And, at a certain level, they were heroic.  They were brave in battle, they were courageous, and Davis was a courageous President of the Confederacy.  Were they racists?  Davis certainly was, and they probably all were by today's standards, and they defended the indefensible of slavery, but there were other issues that drove the Civil War besides the slave question.

This yanking out of monuments, the "kneelers" at football games; there is absolutely no good will in how they go about things.  I'm not saying that this isn't a case of the shoe being on the other foot; no one cared about the thoughts and feelings of blacks for a century after Appomattox, save for Reconstruction.  And the revival of Confederate imagery during the Civil Rights Revolution years are isn't about history at all.  But a good part of the "dig 'em up" crowd's actions are a case of taking two (2) wrongs and making a right; it never works.  The wrong is in the total disregard for the other side. 

 

My point was more that both were enemies of the United States and neither should be celebrated.  Being raised in the south, I certainly understand that most people here are brought up believing the “heroes” of the Confederacy are heroes of the United States. It’s wrong to believe that and people need to be called out on it.  These men were not patriots, they were traitors.  I know many southerners do not see that, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

Geronimo, sitting bull,  Tecumseh, and Osceola were technically enemies of the United States too. As was John Brown.

[Badger]

Charlottesville http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/removal-of-lee-jackson-statues-could-cost-charlottesville/article_3b328d33-2f05-5efe-b1e7-9650164522f4.html

New Orleans  http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/12/us/new-orleans-confederate-monument-removal-price-trnd/index.html

Two cities - $2.8 million.  They could help a lot people who are truly in need in their cities with this kind of money.

That money would be spent on maintenance over time anyway. Non-story.

What sort of maintenance is this that costs so much?

On the other hand, why should it cost $2.8 million to remove a bunch of statues?  It doesn't cost anywhere near that much when a person moves to move their stuff.

Persons don't normally have to rent heavy machinery and large work trucks and government contractors who make prevailing wages and file an EIS and sue in court to remove their stuff. Apparently every time the flaggers pulled the tarp off the Lee statue it cost several thousand dollars to send a cherry picker out to place it back on. Local government ...

So it's the neo-confederate fans that are driving up the cost of removal with litigation and nominal acts of vandalism? That's interesting. Added to the cost of Maintenance, and I practically self defeats its own argument

[WMS]

It's because they had to keep them whole in order to protect the feelings of "muh history " snowflakes. They could've just hired a group of teenagers with sledgehammers for $100.

Hell turn it into a community event. Every citizen gets a swing for $5.

I strongly disapprove of destroying these things and negating their value for researchers and historians for centuries to come. Move them into a historical society or a museum rather than smashing them so we don't have access to them anymore.

This right here is the solution. I would just add that in said museums and/or historical societies the stories of how these statues came to be where they were - i.e., when and how they appeared in the first place - should be included in their descriptions.

[136or142]

When people advocate for Confederate monuments and other symbols they are literally advocating for something that is un-American and unpatriotic.

If we had Nazi symbols on government property, would we not spend money to remove them?

Both were enemies of the country, and it's the same principle.  Anyone who doesn't realize that the Confederacy was an enemy of our country surely failed US History.

I'm not a fan of the Confederacy, but to compare the Confederacy with Nazi Germany is a false equivalency.  Neo-Confederates and Confederate Revivalists are a different matter. 

Folks have been raised to believe Lee, Jackson, Davis, et al were heroes.  And, at a certain level, they were heroic.  They were brave in battle, they were courageous, and Davis was a courageous President of the Confederacy.  Were they racists?  Davis certainly was, and they probably all were by today's standards, and they defended the indefensible of slavery, but there were other issues that drove the Civil War besides the slave question.

This yanking out of monuments, the "kneelers" at football games; there is absolutely no good will in how they go about things.  I'm not saying that this isn't a case of the shoe being on the other foot; no one cared about the thoughts and feelings of blacks for a century after Appomattox, save for Reconstruction.  And the revival of Confederate imagery during the Civil Rights Revolution years are isn't about history at all.  But a good part of the "dig 'em up" crowd's actions are a case of taking two (2) wrongs and making a right; it never works.  The wrong is in the total disregard for the other side. 

 

My point was more that both were enemies of the United States and neither should be celebrated.  Being raised in the south, I certainly understand that most people here are brought up believing the “heroes” of the Confederacy are heroes of the United States. It’s wrong to believe that and people need to be called out on it.  These men were not patriots, they were traitors.  I know many southerners do not see that, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

Geronimo, sitting bull,  Tecumseh, and Osceola were technically enemies of the United States too. As was John Brown.

Great. So, the statues of the Confederates have had a long run so let's put up statues of all these people throughout the United States now in their place.  A statue of John Brown outside the home of every white southerner should remind them of the atrocities committed that they now say they need to be reminded of.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Just when you thought it couldn't get any more ridiculous, two white members of the South Carolina General Assembly have come up with their own way to defuse the Confederate monument controversy. Put some more monuments up to honor black Confederates who served the Confederate Army.

[Inmate Trump]

When people advocate for Confederate monuments and other symbols they are literally advocating for something that is un-American and unpatriotic.

If we had Nazi symbols on government property, would we not spend money to remove them?

Both were enemies of the country, and it's the same principle.  Anyone who doesn't realize that the Confederacy was an enemy of our country surely failed US History.

I'm not a fan of the Confederacy, but to compare the Confederacy with Nazi Germany is a false equivalency.  Neo-Confederates and Confederate Revivalists are a different matter. 

Folks have been raised to believe Lee, Jackson, Davis, et al were heroes.  And, at a certain level, they were heroic.  They were brave in battle, they were courageous, and Davis was a courageous President of the Confederacy.  Were they racists?  Davis certainly was, and they probably all were by today's standards, and they defended the indefensible of slavery, but there were other issues that drove the Civil War besides the slave question.

This yanking out of monuments, the "kneelers" at football games; there is absolutely no good will in how they go about things.  I'm not saying that this isn't a case of the shoe being on the other foot; no one cared about the thoughts and feelings of blacks for a century after Appomattox, save for Reconstruction.  And the revival of Confederate imagery during the Civil Rights Revolution years are isn't about history at all.  But a good part of the "dig 'em up" crowd's actions are a case of taking two (2) wrongs and making a right; it never works.  The wrong is in the total disregard for the other side. 

 

My point was more that both were enemies of the United States and neither should be celebrated.  Being raised in the south, I certainly understand that most people here are brought up believing the “heroes” of the Confederacy are heroes of the United States. It’s wrong to believe that and people need to be called out on it.  These men were not patriots, they were traitors.  I know many southerners do not see that, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

Geronimo, sitting bull,  Tecumseh, and Osceola were technically enemies of the United States too. As was John Brown.

Germany should start erecting statues of Hitler and flying the Nazi flag again.  It's their heritage, and if they don't do it they'll forget history...because that's how memory and education work--if it isn't idolized in a monument, it didn't happen, and no amount of education taught can change that.