Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
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  Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?
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Author Topic: Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?  (Read 1361 times)
Greatest I am
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« on: October 11, 2017, 07:09:32 PM »

Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve?

Scripture are clear. Sin and death entered this world through Adam, and he was thus to blame for original sin.

Yet God rewarded Adam with dominion over Eve even though Eve was not responsible for sin and death entering the world. Gen3:16 and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

This shows God continuing the policy of punishing the innocent instead of the guilty that is shown in scriptures. 1Peter 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.

God seems to be rewarding Adam for sin while punishing Eve for the events in Eden even though she was innocent of sin as she did not have any evil intent and was deceived by Satan, a force that she could not possibly resist thanks to God giving Satan the power to deceive the whole world after God put Satan in Eden with Eve.
 
If making man ruler over women that was an error, it would help explain the 5,000 years of war we have had to endure with undeserving men as rulers.

Gnostic Christianity, a Universalist belief system, believes in full equality for all souls. Christianity obviously does not believe in equality if it preaches that men are to perpetually enjoy ruling over women. Not to mention the inequality of gays.

Did God err in making Adam ruler over Eve and thus punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 12:13:50 AM »

We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.
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Junior Chimp
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2017, 02:51:56 AM »

We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.
Word, yo.

Seriously though, I completely agree, of course. Why should everyone be punished for Adam and Eve's sin? That doesn't make sense.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2017, 07:48:04 AM »

We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.

Was Jesus not punished for our sins?

Was Eve not punished for Adams?

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2017, 07:50:39 AM »

We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.
Word, yo.

Seriously though, I completely agree, of course. Why should everyone be punished for Adam and Eve's sin? That doesn't make sense.

Are you saying that Original Sin is a sham?

Was God's punishment of Jesus a sham as well?

Do you see Eve as a sinner when scriptures say she was deceived by God's helper?

Regards
DL
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 09:00:28 PM »

We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.

Was Jesus not punished for our sins?

Was Eve not punished for Adams?

Regards
DL

In Mormon belief, Christ freely gave his life for everyone's sins, understanding the price of sin from the beginning.



We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.
Word, yo.

Seriously though, I completely agree, of course. Why should everyone be punished for Adam and Eve's sin? That doesn't make sense.

Are you saying that Original Sin is a sham?

Was God's punishment of Jesus a sham as well?

Do you see Eve as a sinner when scriptures say she was deceived by God's helper?

Regards
DL
Yes, Mormonism believes that Original Sin is a sham. Adam and Eve were punished for their sin, but it is a sin they repented of, and beyond being kicked out of the Garden of Even and becoming mortal, it's not a sin the rest of humanity shares. In fact, Mormonism teaches that part of the Plan of Salvation, God's plan for all humanity, relied on Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Even and gaining the ability to procreate.

Jesus's role, in dying for the sins of humanity, was also key in the Plan of Salvation. There is a passage in the Book of Mormon, that explains:

Quote
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Mormonism argues that eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and accepting the consequences afterwards was the correct, rational choice.
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RFayette
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2017, 09:09:24 PM »

Humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam and Eve, so in this sense Adam is our federal head and because he sinned, the whole human race fell from grace.  Fortunately, God stepped into history by sending his only son Jesus Christ into the world so that all who repent and believe in him can get a new nature and be transferred from children of wrath to children of light.  

God did not err with Adam and Eve because he already knew how he would use Adam and Eve's sin to glorify himself, as he predestined all who believe in Christ before the foundations of the Earth per Ephesians 1, so he obviously knew what would happen before creating Adam and Eve, and chose to allow sin in order to showcase his glory and mercy.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2017, 05:13:33 PM »

We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.

Was Jesus not punished for our sins?

Was Eve not punished for Adams?

Regards
DL

In Mormon belief, Christ freely gave his life for everyone's sins, understanding the price of sin from the beginning.



We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.
Word, yo.

Seriously though, I completely agree, of course. Why should everyone be punished for Adam and Eve's sin? That doesn't make sense.

Are you saying that Original Sin is a sham?

Was God's punishment of Jesus a sham as well?

Do you see Eve as a sinner when scriptures say she was deceived by God's helper?

Regards
DL
Yes, Mormonism believes that Original Sin is a sham. Adam and Eve were punished for their sin, but it is a sin they repented of, and beyond being kicked out of the Garden of Even and becoming mortal, it's not a sin the rest of humanity shares. In fact, Mormonism teaches that part of the Plan of Salvation, God's plan for all humanity, relied on Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Even and gaining the ability to procreate.

Jesus's role, in dying for the sins of humanity, was also key in the Plan of Salvation. There is a passage in the Book of Mormon, that explains:

Quote
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Mormonism argues that eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and accepting the consequences afterwards was the correct, rational choice.

So God screwed up creation so badly that he had to have his own son murdered, --- when he could just have forgiven us all outright and without that murder, --- and you see that immoral prick and lousy creator as a good God.

Give your foolish and immoral head a shake.

Is that how you would choose to forgive your children if you had Gods power?

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 05:20:03 PM »

Humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam and Eve, so in this sense Adam is our federal head and because he sinned, the whole human race fell from grace.  Fortunately, God stepped into history by sending his only son Jesus Christ into the world so that all who repent and believe in him can get a new nature and be transferred from children of wrath to children of light.  

God did not err with Adam and Eve because he already knew how he would use Adam and Eve's sin to glorify himself, as he predestined all who believe in Christ before the foundations of the Earth per Ephesians 1, so he obviously knew what would happen before creating Adam and Eve, and chose to allow sin in order to showcase his glory and mercy.

Thanks for showing how immoral your religion has made you.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKNup9gEBdg

You and our friend above seem to have forgotten your bibles, --- if you guys have even read it.

Jesus was a Jew and you have him breaking moral Jewish law with your fear of stepping up to your own responsibilities.

Cowards.

 Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

You have forgotten, handily, that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral.

Please stop being such immoral cowards.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 05:22:19 PM »

Humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam and Eve, so in this sense Adam is our federal head and because he sinned, the whole human race fell from grace.  Fortunately, God stepped into history by sending his only son Jesus Christ into the world so that all who repent and believe in him can get a new nature and be transferred from children of wrath to children of light.  

God did not err with Adam and Eve because he already knew how he would use Adam and Eve's sin to glorify himself, as he predestined all who believe in Christ before the foundations of the Earth per Ephesians 1, so he obviously knew what would happen before creating Adam and Eve, and chose to allow sin in order to showcase his glory and mercy.

Back to the topic.

Scriptures say that Adam brought sin and death to the earth. Not Eve.

Eve is punished more than Adam. Does that sound fair to you?

Regards
DL
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RFayette
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2017, 10:55:52 PM »

Humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam and Eve, so in this sense Adam is our federal head and because he sinned, the whole human race fell from grace.  Fortunately, God stepped into history by sending his only son Jesus Christ into the world so that all who repent and believe in him can get a new nature and be transferred from children of wrath to children of light.  

God did not err with Adam and Eve because he already knew how he would use Adam and Eve's sin to glorify himself, as he predestined all who believe in Christ before the foundations of the Earth per Ephesians 1, so he obviously knew what would happen before creating Adam and Eve, and chose to allow sin in order to showcase his glory and mercy.

Back to the topic.

Scriptures say that Adam brought sin and death to the earth. Not Eve.

Eve is punished more than Adam. Does that sound fair to you?

Regards
DL

Adam and Eve were punished differently, but on what basis do you claim that Eve was punished more?  

Regardless, the verses you cite refer to direct punishment for sins, but this is different.  Because Adam sinned, we all have the proclivity to sin, and we are thus punished for those sins.  I do not believe that humans are punished directly for Adam's sin, but rather that he caused the fall of the human race into sin; and because we are now human beings born children of wrath with sinful desires, we will be punished for those sins we commit due to our fallen nature.  Regardless, there's nothing "fair" about God.  He is very harsh at points, but it just is what it is.  "Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases" (Psalm 115:3).   But the point is, you don't want God's justice, because that will send you straight to hell.  You want him to be unfair by showing mercy, and he does to those he predestined in Christ (Ephesians 1).
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 02:54:50 AM »

I see now it was a mistake responding in sincerity to this thread, as Greatest I am just wants to bash any form of Christianity that isn't his particular form of Gnostic Christianity. My answer was not bashing Gnostic Christianity in any way, and yet I get insulted.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 05:53:16 AM »

Humans inherit a sinful nature from Adam and Eve, so in this sense Adam is our federal head and because he sinned, the whole human race fell from grace.  Fortunately, God stepped into history by sending his only son Jesus Christ into the world so that all who repent and believe in him can get a new nature and be transferred from children of wrath to children of light.  

God did not err with Adam and Eve because he already knew how he would use Adam and Eve's sin to glorify himself, as he predestined all who believe in Christ before the foundations of the Earth per Ephesians 1, so he obviously knew what would happen before creating Adam and Eve, and chose to allow sin in order to showcase his glory and mercy.

Back to the topic.

Scriptures say that Adam brought sin and death to the earth. Not Eve.

Eve is punished more than Adam. Does that sound fair to you?

Regards
DL

Adam and Eve were punished differently, but on what basis do you claim that Eve was punished more?  

Regardless, the verses you cite refer to direct punishment for sins, but this is different.  Because Adam sinned, we all have the proclivity to sin, and we are thus punished for those sins.  I do not believe that humans are punished directly for Adam's sin, but rather that he caused the fall of the human race into sin; and because we are now human beings born children of wrath with sinful desires, we will be punished for those sins we commit due to our fallen nature.  Regardless, there's nothing "fair" about God.  He is very harsh at points, but it just is what it is.  "Our God is in the heavens; he does whatever he pleases" (Psalm 115:3).   But the point is, you don't want God's justice, because that will send you straight to hell.  You want him to be unfair by showing mercy, and he does to those he predestined in Christ (Ephesians 1).

Your idiotic dogma is wasted on me.

You preach your garbage while trying to deflect from the facts that God punished woman for what man did.

"but on what basis do you claim that Eve was punished more?"

Any punishment of the innocent is immoral regardless of the amount.

Only an immoral mind will care focus the amount.

Tell us, which punishment is greater. To be made a slave or to be made a master?

Regards
DL



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BuckeyeNut
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« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2017, 01:05:52 AM »

He errd long before that. In the wise words of Douglas Adams, "In the beggining the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."
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« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 03:11:50 AM »

We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.

Was Jesus not punished for our sins?

Was Eve not punished for Adams?

Regards
DL

In Mormon belief, Christ freely gave his life for everyone's sins, understanding the price of sin from the beginning.



We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.
Word, yo.

Seriously though, I completely agree, of course. Why should everyone be punished for Adam and Eve's sin? That doesn't make sense.

Are you saying that Original Sin is a sham?

Was God's punishment of Jesus a sham as well?

Do you see Eve as a sinner when scriptures say she was deceived by God's helper?

Regards
DL
Yes, Mormonism believes that Original Sin is a sham. Adam and Eve were punished for their sin, but it is a sin they repented of, and beyond being kicked out of the Garden of Even and becoming mortal, it's not a sin the rest of humanity shares. In fact, Mormonism teaches that part of the Plan of Salvation, God's plan for all humanity, relied on Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Even and gaining the ability to procreate.

Jesus's role, in dying for the sins of humanity, was also key in the Plan of Salvation. There is a passage in the Book of Mormon, that explains:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Mormonism argues that eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and accepting the consequences afterwards was the correct, rational choice.

So, question. I may be an atheist, but I studied Bible in school, and I remember (and checked before posting) that in the end of Adam and Eve's story, god is giving them a pretty specific punishment- Eve would have to give birth in pain, and Adam would have to work hard for his bread. Well, as we know, women do give birth in pain, and bread does not grow on trees. So according to Mormonism, did the original punishment not have any effect on us? Did it just punish Adam and Eve, and if so, why did these punishments carry on to the rest of humanity (and the snake's punishment carried on to all snakes)?
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2017, 09:24:39 AM »

He errd long before that. In the wise words of Douglas Adams, "In the beggining the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

Without a universe, he would not have been around to spout such utter bullocks.

I am quite happy that there was a big bang.

Regards
DL

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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2017, 05:58:58 PM »

We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.

Was Jesus not punished for our sins?

Was Eve not punished for Adams?

Regards
DL

In Mormon belief, Christ freely gave his life for everyone's sins, understanding the price of sin from the beginning.



We are punished for our own sins, not Adam's transgression.
Word, yo.

Seriously though, I completely agree, of course. Why should everyone be punished for Adam and Eve's sin? That doesn't make sense.

Are you saying that Original Sin is a sham?

Was God's punishment of Jesus a sham as well?

Do you see Eve as a sinner when scriptures say she was deceived by God's helper?

Regards
DL
Yes, Mormonism believes that Original Sin is a sham. Adam and Eve were punished for their sin, but it is a sin they repented of, and beyond being kicked out of the Garden of Even and becoming mortal, it's not a sin the rest of humanity shares. In fact, Mormonism teaches that part of the Plan of Salvation, God's plan for all humanity, relied on Adam and Eve being kicked out of the Garden of Even and gaining the ability to procreate.

Jesus's role, in dying for the sins of humanity, was also key in the Plan of Salvation. There is a passage in the Book of Mormon, that explains:

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

Mormonism argues that eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and accepting the consequences afterwards was the correct, rational choice.

So, question. I may be an atheist, but I studied Bible in school, and I remember (and checked before posting) that in the end of Adam and Eve's story, god is giving them a pretty specific punishment- Eve would have to give birth in pain, and Adam would have to work hard for his bread. Well, as we know, women do give birth in pain, and bread does not grow on trees. So according to Mormonism, did the original punishment not have any effect on us? Did it just punish Adam and Eve, and if so, why did these punishments carry on to the rest of humanity (and the snake's punishment carried on to all snakes)?

Well, in Mormonism, there is an overarching Plan of Salvation, which is basically God's plan for everyone. A large part of it is that we are all spiritual brothers and sisters, and we exist in spirit form before we exist as mortals. And a large part of the point of the Plan of Salvation is to get a mortal body and experience mortality, including death. Mormon belief is that in the Garden of Eden, it was stagnant in all things, including life and death. So without death, there could be no new life. Therefore, while Adam and Eve were punished for disobeying God in the "don't eat this" commandment, we believe that this was all part of God's plan, and that they should not be condemned for it. They paid the price for the sin, and it was intended to happen to allow all of humanity to be mortal. The original sin does not apply to us, even though we are mortal because of it. Any sin that happens is our own, not Adam and Eve's.
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BuckeyeNut
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2017, 08:52:45 PM »

He errd long before that. In the wise words of Douglas Adams, "In the beggining the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

Without a universe, he would not have been around to spout such utter bullocks.

I am quite happy that there was a big bang.

Regards
DL

And wouldn't that be better?
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 09:53:36 AM »

[ So without death, there could be no new life.

So it was a good thing that A & E disobeyed God. Right?

Further, the bible does not agree with you.

In Gen 1, God tells A & E to reproduce.

Are you suggesting that God told them to do what they could not do before bringing deat to mankind?

Quite the glitch for you to deal with.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2017, 09:56:25 AM »

He errd long before that. In the wise words of Douglas Adams, "In the beggining the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move."

Without a universe, he would not have been around to spout such utter bullocks.

I am quite happy that there was a big bang.

Regards
DL

And wouldn't that be better?

I do not understand your question.

Are you referring to the big bang?

If so, yes it would be better for all who stupidly believe in an immoral creator God who is absent but most still be followed.

Regards
DL
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« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2017, 12:10:04 PM »

[ So without death, there could be no new life.

So it was a good thing that A & E disobeyed God. Right?

Further, the bible does not agree with you.

In Gen 1, God tells A & E to reproduce.

Are you suggesting that God told them to do what they could not do before bringing deat to mankind?

Quite the glitch for you to deal with.

Regards
DL
Yes. We have additional scriptures that clarify the matter. He gives them two conflicting commandments, with the express purpose that they'd disobey one to fulfill the other.
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2017, 01:23:37 PM »

Little off-topic, but this is what I find quite interesting about Adam and Eve.

1. The God created Eve from Adam's ribs.
2. This would make Eve a biological child of Adam.
3. This would make him a daughter-fycker.
4, This would make all of us offsprings of an incestuous relationship.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2017, 02:06:40 PM »

[ So without death, there could be no new life.

So it was a good thing that A & E disobeyed God. Right?

Further, the bible does not agree with you.

In Gen 1, God tells A & E to reproduce.

Are you suggesting that God told them to do what they could not do before bringing deat to mankind?

Quite the glitch for you to deal with.

Regards
DL
Yes. We have additional scriptures that clarify the matter. He gives them two conflicting commandments, with the express purpose that they'd disobey one to fulfill the other.

Quite the con game by a vile and immo0ral creator.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2017, 02:08:53 PM »

Little off-topic, but this is what I find quite interesting about Adam and Eve.

1. The God created Eve from Adam's ribs.
2. This would make Eve a biological child of Adam.
3. This would make him a daughter-fycker.
4, This would make all of us offsprings of an incestuous relationship.

Christians do not seem to mind. I am not sure what that says of Christians.

Nothing good.

Regards
DL
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