If there was a population-based World House of Representatives: how big?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 05:14:59 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Political Debate (Moderator: Torie)
  If there was a population-based World House of Representatives: how big?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: If there was a population-based World House of Representatives: how big? (if world has population of 10B)
#1
Less than 10,000 Reps... each Rep representing more than 1 Million people (describe below)
 
#2
10,000 Reps... each representing 1 Million
 
#3
Between 10,000 and 1 Million Reps (describe below)
 
#4
1 Million Reps, each representing 10,000
 
#5
More than 1 Million Reps, each representing less than 10,000 people (describe below)
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 35

Author Topic: If there was a population-based World House of Representatives: how big?  (Read 1190 times)
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,035
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: October 12, 2017, 12:29:36 AM »
« edited: October 12, 2017, 12:31:30 AM by Blue3 »

If, sometime over the next 100 years, we get a world government that's a progressive liberal democracy, with a population-based House of Representatives (like the one in the United States today) in a presidential system (like the US), then how big and how representative should it be?

Let's say that, when this government for all humanity forms (peacefully), there's 10 billion people and it's projected to remain stable at 10 billion due to lower birth rates.

Would it be better to have one Representative per 10,000 people... and therefore 1 Million Representatives?
(Perhaps that could work with a Geography-based Committee system...
* where those 1 Million representatives are then placed into 100 groups of 10,000 each, and choose a super-representative for that entire group...
* and those 10,000 super-representatives are then grouped into 100 groups of 100 each, and choose an ultra-representative for that entire group...
* and those 100 ultra-representatives represent the third and final "geographic committee" level for the House...
* all bills must start at the lowest level and pass through to the highest level, before going to the President's desk for approval or veto)

Or would it be better to have one Representative per 1 Million people... and therefore 10,000 Representatives? Should they then still do a similar geography-based committee system, described above?

How about a House of Representatives larger than 1 Million? What number, then? And how would it be set-up?

Smaller than 10,000? What number, then? And how would it be set-up?

Somewhere between 1 Million and 10,000? What number, then? And how would it be set-up?
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2017, 07:57:28 AM »

It probably won't be population based fwiw. I'm a big fan of Schwartzberg's method:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwartzberg%27s_weighted_voting

fwiw the cube root method gives a current size of just under 2000 members, with 2154 for a potential peak 10 billion population.

Quite simply, your hypothetical world parliament wouldn't need to be so big: there would still exist many legislatures below it for country specific things; and a parliament that size would be logistically unfeasible.
Logged
vanguard96
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 754
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 03:43:54 PM »

It should be 0 - no world government. Please
Logged
Dr. MB
MB
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,813
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 04:06:15 PM »

10,000 would be good. But hopefully we never come to that.
Logged
parochial boy
parochial_boy
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,114


Political Matrix
E: -8.38, S: -6.78

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 04:18:15 PM »

I think the indirect method as proposed seems logical, but in practice would probably end up suffering from the same accusations ("unelected bureaucrats") that the EU commission suffers from.

So probably you need a directly elected chamber, elected on a PR basis probably by multination constituencies; which maybe in turn could elect a collective executive.

I also think a world government would require effectively abolishing the nation-state as a concept, and giving a strong level of autonomy to a network of sub-national regions and /or city states, to better represent the sorts of local concerns that a world government (and even nation-states) aren't able to deal with.

fwiw the cube root method gives a current size of just under 2000 members, with 2154 for a potential peak 10 billion population.

Quite simply, your hypothetical world parliament wouldn't need to be so big: there would still exist many legislatures below it for country specific things; and a parliament that size would be logistically unfeasible.

I dunno, the House of Lords is probably going to reach that size at some point.
Logged
Starry Eyed Jagaloon
Blairite
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,853
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 11:23:14 PM »

1,000 seems obvious, with each representing 10 million. Executive acts as tiebreaker. More than 1,000 seems absolutely dysfunctional, and 10 million isn't that many people to represent--its essentially a region, small country, or metropolitan area.
For example, in 2050, with one billion people, approximate country breakdowns are as follows:
India: 170 representatives
China: 130 representatives
USA: 40 representatives
Nigeria: 39 representatives
Indonesia: 29 representatives
Pakistan: 27 representatives
Brazil: 22 representatives
Bangladesh: 19 representatives
Philippines: 15 representatives
DR Congo: 15 representatives
Ethiopia: 15 representatives
Mexico: 14 representatives
Tanzania: 14 representatives
Russia: 13 representatives
Egypt: 12 representatives
Japan: 11 representatives
Vietnam: 10 representatives
Kenya: 10 representatives
everybody else: less than 10 representatives
Logged
Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2017, 02:48:28 PM »

It should be 0 - no world government. Please

This of course, but that ruins the thread, does it not? Tongue

10,000 is probably close to too much, if you literally think about getting all of these people in one place. Although, I suppose that might not be necessary in modern times? Also, if all of these members will need to be paid a full-time salary, that would cost several hundred million in and of itself (well over a billion if we pay them a similar amount as US representatives--money that, while admittedly dwarfed by government expenses generally, would make a tangible difference put to other goals).

When it comes to legislature size, on one hand I like a larger number since it means more chance for a variety of views to be represented (I mean, in the US it's "nah let's still do FPTP" and you have ~200 people for ideology red and ~200 for ideology blue, yes with a few variants as "token complainers" while most people get locked out of the system--but I'm not derailing the thread with a rant today Smiley) but on the other hand I'm concerned that a larger chamber means it's harder to hold individual people accountable.

Regardless, the thing Crabcake mentioned seems like the best idea.
Logged
Kingpoleon
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,144
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2017, 09:35:58 PM »

999, under a Wyoming rule, but with the first representative being for all nations/confederations(electoral international alliances) at or below three point five million in population.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2017, 09:38:38 PM »

2000-3000 is probably the largest you can stretch a deliberative assembly to be. You can have an assembly of 10k or more, but it would be reduced to voting on bills drafted by someone else, so at that point you might as well resort to direct democracy.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 06:22:48 AM »

It should be 0 - no world government. Please

There already effectively is a world government, just ond that is fragmented, unaccountable, and run for the benefit of the elite.
Logged
Beet
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,804


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 06:44:49 AM »

About 10,000 or more makes sense, but obviously they would vote as blocs.
Logged
Santander
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,851
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: 4.00, S: 2.61


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 04:47:11 PM »

We would definitely need to apply the three-fifths rule to most of the world.
Logged
Antonio the Sixth
Antonio V
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,964
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -3.83

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2017, 06:54:14 PM »

We would definitely need to apply the three-fifths rule to most of the world.

wow so edgy
Logged
Starry Eyed Jagaloon
Blairite
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,853
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2017, 08:48:35 PM »

I've literally been trying to divide the world into 1000 districts since this thread. I have the USA and half of China done this far.
Logged
Blue3
Starwatcher
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,035
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2017, 10:33:23 PM »

I've literally been trying to divide the world into 1000 districts since this thread. I have the USA and half of China done this far.
that's awesome!
Logged
America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗
TexArkana
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,385
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2017, 01:27:15 AM »

We would definitely need to apply the three-fifths rule to most of the world.

wow so edgy

He's just a troll. I doubt he believes half the garbage he spews on a daily basis.
Logged
Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2017, 04:07:41 PM »

We would definitely need to apply the three-fifths rule to most of the world.

wow so edgy

He's just a troll. I doubt he believes half the garbage he spews on a daily basis.

Oh is he a new poster?
Logged
wxtransit
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,106


Political Matrix
E: -0.26, S: 2.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2017, 11:39:40 PM »

It should be 0 - no world government. Please
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.045 seconds with 15 queries.