Would Clinton have been a better president?
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  Would Clinton have been a better president?
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Author Topic: Would Clinton have been a better president?  (Read 4030 times)
Dr Oz Lost Party!
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« on: October 14, 2017, 06:37:59 PM »
« edited: October 14, 2017, 06:54:40 PM by PittsburghSteel »

With or without a democratic congress, would Hillary be doing better than Trump as President?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 06:52:24 PM »

With or without a democratic congress, would Hillary be doing than Trump as President?

Anyone who is not a die hard Republican patrisan would have to say yes.  And even some of those would agree she'd have been a more effective president, just not one doing what they want done.
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BudgieForce
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2017, 08:36:29 PM »

Even with a Republican house and Senate, the status quo in foreign and domestic policy would be infinitely better than the sh**t show we're experiencing now.
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Pyro
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« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2017, 08:44:04 PM »

Who knows. We may have been in a heated war with Russia by now.
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bagelman
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2017, 08:51:27 PM »

Yes
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2017, 09:14:58 PM »

Easily.

She can't campaign, but when it comes to doing things, she's effective. She'd probably have come out about the same as Bush Sr when all's said and done, even down to costing Democrats 2020.
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TPIG
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 09:21:30 PM »

She'd have been a more effective president, but not a better president. Trump hasn't done much, but I generally like the few things he has done (Gorsuch, eliminating ObamaCare CSR payments, removing the US from the Paris Climate Deal, slashing regulations, etc).
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Koharu
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« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 09:26:57 PM »

Considering she's willing to read things and be educated on how things work, yes.
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Rookie Yinzer
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« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2017, 09:34:54 PM »

Yes.

Her approvals would still be sh**t though, but not because she's an incompetent moron in the case of Trump.
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Yank2133
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« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2017, 09:51:53 PM »

There is no doubt she would have been more effective (especially when it comes to foreign policy). Whether you think that makes a good president is up to you.
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2017, 10:13:48 PM »

There is no doubt she would have been more effective (especially when it comes to foreign policy). Whether you think that makes a good president is up to you.

Well, she'd be effective in the short run on that.

In the long run, there'd probably be some kind of quagmire that comes up, probably regarding Russia.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 10:18:08 PM »

i mean probably. but she would almost certainly be even less popular.
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Lord Admirale
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« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 10:39:30 PM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere. 
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ProudModerate2
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« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 10:52:29 PM »
« Edited: October 14, 2017, 10:55:51 PM by ProudModerate2 »

Are you kidding ? !
The cockroach currently crawling in the road gutter would have been a better president.
trump is one of the worst presidents ever, and he is still not done ... there is more downhill for him yet to come.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 10:54:07 PM »

She'd have been a more effective president, but not a better president. Trump hasn't done much, but I generally like the few things he has done (Gorsuch, eliminating ObamaCare CSR payments, removing the US from the Paris Climate Deal, slashing regulations, etc).

She'd have imposes the worst of social liberalism by Executive Order.  That would make her a MASSIVE FF by many here.  Not with me; she's an irreversible HP.
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BudgieForce
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« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 11:59:28 PM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere. 

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.

I need to frame this post so I can look at it when Trump screws something up.
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DrewBrisbane
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« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2017, 12:14:44 AM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere. 

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.

Spot on.

Trump needed to win in 2016. I've been thinking about it - only a failed Trump Presidency would have the power to expunge his toxic brand of politics from America's system once and for all.

I shudder to think what could have happened had he narrowly lost. Imagine Hillary winning by eeking out the slimmest of margins in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin. Trump refusing to concede, charging her with voter fraud. The terrorist acts committed by far-right militia groups across the country. The inevitable Republican landslides in 2018 and 2020. A Democratic Party shut out from state legislatures, the Senate, the House, maybe for a decade. God.

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DrewBrisbane
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« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2017, 12:16:49 AM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere.  

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.

Spot on.

Trump needed to win in 2016. I've been thinking about it - only a failed Trump Presidency would have the power to expunge his toxic brand of politics from America's system once and for all.

I shudder to think what could have happened had he narrowly lost. Imagine Hillary winning by eeking out the slimmest of margins in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin. Trump refusing to concede, charging her with voter fraud. The terrorist acts committed by far-right militia groups across the country. The inevitable Republican landslides in 2018 and 2020. A Democratic Party shut out from state legislatures, the Senate, the House, maybe for a decade. God.



Trump probably needs to be given space to fail. This is why I also don't support his impeachment, despite his Presidency being a disaster. I don't want his cult supporters to create their own stab-in-the-back myth. People need to see first-hand how terribly populists govern
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2017, 12:18:04 AM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere. 

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.

I don't know about anyone here, but I find Tom Cotton to be one of the most frightening people in politics in either party.  He scares me more than Maxine Waters or Chris "World War III" Christie, and those two are scary, indeed.
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DrewBrisbane
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« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2017, 12:20:14 AM »
« Edited: October 15, 2017, 12:22:16 AM by DrewBrisbane »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere.  

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.

I don't know about anyone here, but I find Tom Cotton to be one of the most frightening people in politics in either party.  He scares me more than Maxine Waters or Chris "World War III" Christie, and those two are scary, indeed.

Would he just be a more competent President Trump? If so, very scary thought
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2017, 12:30:35 AM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere.  

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.

I don't know about anyone here, but I find Tom Cotton to be one of the most frightening people in politics in either party.  He scares me more than Maxine Waters or Chris "World War III" Christie, and those two are scary, indeed.

Would he just be a more competent President Trump? If so, very scary thought

Trump, while not someone who reflects compassion for the less fortunate, gets the idea that the safety net is necessary to avoid massive hordes of impoverished people in the streets (as there are in third world countries).  Trump is also not a Neocon looking for unnecessary new wars.

Cotton is all for the 1% and all for endless interventionism.  He's as cold as a reptile.
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DrewBrisbane
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« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2017, 12:45:07 AM »

I should've added a qualifying statement to my "Trump isn't nearly as bad as it could've been statement":
-if Democrats fail to win back the House in both 2018 and 2020, fail to win the 2020 Presidential race, and/or lose a lot of ground in the Senate in 2018 (-3 or more, net), my previous statement is irrelevant and it will have been just as dire as it would've been under my 1-term HRC scenario.

We need at least one House of Congress in the party opposite the President.

Agreed
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jdk
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2017, 03:00:31 AM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere. 

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.
Mostly correct, although there a few things that are slightly off...
If Hillary had won the election and taken Pennsylvania and Wisconsin in order to do so, the Dems probably win the senate seats in those two states, making it a 50-50 split with Kaine being the tie-breaker.  So Hillary is probably likely to get Merrick Garland pushed through before Tim Kaine's old seat turns red.
It wouldn't be a "historic electoral landslide".  The electoral map would have been pretty similar to Trump's 2016 victory, possibly even closer
Also it's highly unlikely Republicans pick up any senate seats, but they would likely have the supermajority from 2018
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BudgieForce
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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2017, 07:43:36 AM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere. 

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.
Mostly correct, although there a few things that are slightly off...
If Hillary had won the election and taken Pennsylvania and Wisconsin in order to do so, the Dems probably win the senate seats in those two states, making it a 50-50 split with Kaine being the tie-breaker.  So Hillary is probably likely to get Merrick Garland pushed through before Tim Kaine's old seat turns red.
It wouldn't be a "historic electoral landslide".  The electoral map would have been pretty similar to Trump's 2016 victory, possibly even closer
Also it's highly unlikely Republicans pick up any senate seats, but they would likely have the supermajority from 2018

It depends. If Hillary barely scrapes out a win in Wisconisin and Pennsylvania, shes probably not taking Feingold and McGinty with her. Hillary ran ahead of both of them, Feingold by a decent amount.   
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Alabama_Indy10
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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2017, 08:53:21 AM »

Yes, but I think the altright blowback would be terrifyingly massive, and would plunge us into a much darker political sphere. 

Yes, people, remember that Trump is really nothing compared to what could've happened. Imagine what a bare Hillary win would've wrought on the country:

2016: Hillary wins a bare EC majority but Senate stays at 52R-48D. McConnell refuses to let Hillary appoint a replacement SCOTUS Justice, saying there was no mandate and that we'll have to wait until the next election.
2017: GOP picks up VA gubernatorial race and Virginia special Senate seat
2018: R+10 in the Senate and R+20 in the House
2018-2020: Hillary becomes even more unpopular than she already is and is essentially a lame duck. A Republican president is basically guaranteed with a Senate supermajority
2020: Tom Cotton leads the GOP to a historic electoral landslide, managing to expand the Senate supermajority by a seat or two.
2021: SCOTUS has a 7-2 conservative majority.
Mostly correct, although there a few things that are slightly off...
If Hillary had won the election and taken Pennsylvania and Wisconsin in order to do so, the Dems probably win the senate seats in those two states, making it a 50-50 split with Kaine being the tie-breaker.  So Hillary is probably likely to get Merrick Garland pushed through before Tim Kaine's old seat turns red.
It wouldn't be a "historic electoral landslide".  The electoral map would have been pretty similar to Trump's 2016 victory, possibly even closer
Also it's highly unlikely Republicans pick up any senate seats, but they would likely have the supermajority from 2018

No.. it would have been a landslide.
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