Russian Revolution: 100 years
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Author Topic: Russian Revolution: 100 years  (Read 3085 times)
buritobr
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« on: October 14, 2017, 09:50:14 PM »

In October 1917, the Bolsheviks took the power in Russia. A country which had 100 million peasants and 3 million manufacturing workers became the home of the first proletarian revolution in the world.
Marx though that the socialist revolution would take place in advanced economies. However, in letters he wrote to Engels and to Russian activists between 1877 and 1883 (in the end of his life), Marx accepted the idea that Russia could have a revolution without following western steps.
Lenin first believed that Russia needed capitalism before communism, but in 1917, after the fall of the tsar, Russia was in a mess. The government established after the fall of the tsar kept Russia in the war, and the war was causing large suffering to the population. So, Lenin observed the possibility of the Bolsheviks to take the power.
After the Civil War (1918-1921), a country which was poor was also destroyed. Communism became not related to equality anymore, but to national development and industrialization. Half century after the October Revolution, one third of the mankind was living in countries ruled by parties organized according to Leninist principles. Socialist revolutions took place in poor countries, so, communism became industrialization through state planing. Even Third World countries which had anti-communist governments adopted some kind of state planning in order to reach development. Not only North Korea, but also South Korea used to have five year plans.
The October Revolution also inspired the building of Welfare States in the capitalist world.
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Cathcon
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« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 09:55:12 AM »

The October Revolution happened on November 7th. Russia was using the Julian calendar still.
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Cashew
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« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2017, 01:43:51 PM »
« Edited: October 15, 2017, 09:27:01 PM by Cashew »

Let's not be too celebratory about this. Russia was the worst of the great powers to have a revolution in if you wanted to present an ideal socialist society for the world to emulate. It's thanks to Moscow's influence that personality cults were legitimized, and socialism is viewed so negativley.
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dead0man
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2017, 08:34:54 PM »

100 years of suffering
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jfern
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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 08:36:39 PM »

The October revolution was in November, duh.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2017, 12:53:42 AM »

The October Revolution also inspired the building of Welfare States in the capitalist world.

Not really. The Depression and the War are far more responsible for that. You're not going to see much of a welfare state constructed in the 1920s in the aftermath of the Bolshevik seizure of power in Russia.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2017, 03:05:37 AM »

The October Revolution also inspired the building of Welfare States in the capitalist world.

Not really. The Depression and the War are far more responsible for that. You're not going to see much of a welfare state constructed in the 1920s in the aftermath of the Bolshevik seizure of power in Russia.

Yes, in fact red scare actually energized the right and helped to derail such programs. And the association with communism and support from such, was enough to taint a lot of proposals as well to the point that only the Depression finally created the impetus to advance them.
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2017, 01:57:54 PM »

As a Russian, who lives in Russia now (though i lived part of my life in the West, including US), i can say that i absolutely hate this Russian revolution, which brought  a very big amount of pain to russian people, and made Russia not a part of integrated Europe, but a big and bulky ideology-obsessed empire....
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Jolly Slugg
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« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2017, 06:35:58 PM »

those nutters in Socialist Alternative (Australian) are peeved that our federal parliament has condemned them for celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Revolution and that murderer/criminal against humanity Lenin.
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Beet
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« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2017, 06:38:59 PM »

As a Russian, who lives in Russia now (though i lived part of my life in the West, including US), i can say that i absolutely hate this Russian revolution, which brought  a very big amount of pain to russian people, and made Russia not a part of integrated Europe, but a big and bulky ideology-obsessed empire....

It was already that before. The whole reason why Russia had a revolution to communism in the first place was because it was less modernized.
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2017, 12:28:01 AM »

As a Russian, who lives in Russia now (though i lived part of my life in the West, including US), i can say that i absolutely hate this Russian revolution, which brought  a very big amount of pain to russian people, and made Russia not a part of integrated Europe, but a big and bulky ideology-obsessed empire....

It was already that before. The whole reason why Russia had a revolution to communism in the first place was because it was less modernized.

Of course, but even in Tsar times there were more connections of country and it's people with Europe then later (during Stalin's reign for example). So, Russsia was an Empire, but less imperialist, then later on (sorry for pun)..
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dead0man
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2017, 01:27:02 AM »

As a Russian, who lives in Russia now (though i lived part of my life in the West, including US), i can say that i absolutely hate this Russian revolution, which brought  a very big amount of pain to russian people, and made Russia not a part of integrated Europe, but a big and bulky ideology-obsessed empire....

It was already that before.
Yeah, the Czars sucked major ass, even compared to the other sh**tty countries at the time.....and yet they were still WAY better than the Soviets at not murdering their own people by the millions.
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Strudelcutie4427
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« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2017, 06:38:36 PM »

A truest tragic time in history. While the tsar was bad he was no where near as bad as Lenin Stalin and all their crew. The next 70 years would be filled with terror and death and millions of Russians were deceived by the revolution. Over the time of communist rule, it would kill over 100 million innocent people from Central Europe to SE Asia. Today when looking back at the events of 1917, I'm very happy that we now live in a world where millions are free where they would otherwise be enslaved by the communist regime. Hopefully soon enough communism will collapse and freedom will prevail in places like Cuba China North Korea Laos and Vietnam
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Shadows
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« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2017, 11:39:41 PM »

A truest tragic time in history. While the tsar was bad he was no where near as bad as Lenin Stalin and all their crew. The next 70 years would be filled with terror and death and millions of Russians were deceived by the revolution. Over the time of communist rule, it would kill over 100 million innocent people from Central Europe to SE Asia. Today when looking back at the events of 1917, I'm very happy that we now live in a world where millions are free where they would otherwise be enslaved by the communist regime. Hopefully soon enough communism will collapse and freedom will prevail in places like Cuba China North Korea Laos and Vietnam

The numbers you are putting are totally out of your as* btw. I am not a big fan of communism in general but every ideology has killed people. US is one of the leading nations that there is, having unleashed worldwide violence which has killed millions for the sake of ideology, sometimes replacing democratic leaders with brutal killing dictators.

So, this is tall talk coming from 1 ideology which kills to another which kills a bit more. The Czar was terrible & as terrible as Communism is, I fail to see how it is even worse than a Czar ruling & crushing millions of working class people. I wish they had gone into a full functioning democracy & a less authoritarian direction without communism but to suddenly act like the West if pious & the Czar was okay, is preposterous.
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dead0man
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« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2017, 04:53:42 AM »

so, let us get this straight, you think Communism=The West=Czarist Russia in the horribleness rankings?  They're all tied?  But you're not a big fan of Communism in general, just a little fan of Communism.  oh, I guess that makes sense then.  Nevermind.
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2017, 06:05:37 AM »

A truest tragic time in history. While the tsar was bad he was no where near as bad as Lenin Stalin and all their crew. The next 70 years would be filled with terror and death and millions of Russians were deceived by the revolution. Over the time of communist rule, it would kill over 100 million innocent people from Central Europe to SE Asia. Today when looking back at the events of 1917, I'm very happy that we now live in a world where millions are free where they would otherwise be enslaved by the communist regime. Hopefully soon enough communism will collapse and freedom will prevail in places like Cuba China North Korea Laos and Vietnam

The numbers you are putting are totally out of your as* btw. I am not a big fan of communism in general but every ideology has killed people. US is one of the leading nations that there is, having unleashed worldwide violence which has killed millions for the sake of ideology, sometimes replacing democratic leaders with brutal killing dictators.

So, this is tall talk coming from 1 ideology which kills to another which kills a bit more. The Czar was terrible & as terrible as Communism is, I fail to see how it is even worse than a Czar ruling & crushing millions of working class people. I wish they had gone into a full functioning democracy & a less authoritarian direction without communism but to suddenly act like the West if pious & the Czar was okay, is preposterous.

One small difference: under tsar hundreds (may be - few thousands) "revolutionaries" were killed and somewhat more - sent to Siberia to relatively comfortable exile. Under Soviet regime (besides millions killed in civil war of 1917-1920) between 1 and 1.5 millions (by official data, unoffficial numbers are much higher) perished in GULAG only. Feel the difference. It's easy to speak about "virtues of revolutions" and "sins of capitilism" living where you are, but it smacks of hypocrisy at least.
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vanguard96
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« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2017, 01:31:33 PM »


Indeed. 15-20M civilians dead/'disappeared'/executed/starved in USSR, 40-60M in PR China.

'Tu quo que' fallacy argument about US imperialism in three, two, one
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vanguard96
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« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2017, 01:49:38 PM »

As a Russian, who lives in Russia now (though i lived part of my life in the West, including US), i can say that i absolutely hate this Russian revolution, which brought  a very big amount of pain to russian people, and made Russia not a part of integrated Europe, but a big and bulky ideology-obsessed empire....

It was already that before.
Yeah, the Czars sucked major ass, even compared to the other sh**tty countries at the time.....and yet they were still WAY better than the Soviets at not murdering their own people by the millions.

Some people ended up in the same camps with the same guards with the Soviets as with the Tsarists.

Of course many more never came back from the Soviet camps and bad stuff was already happening well before Lenin died with anyone associated with Whites, Mensheviks, Socialist Revolutionaries, priests, religious groups, minority nationalities suspect to being rounded up and sent far away to never return.

Soviets also kept German and Japanese troops in forced labor camps for several years after hostilities ended. Historians estimate approximately 250,000 Japanese stationed in Manchuria died between 1945 and 1950 (Soviet estimated number - 50-60K). 100K Japanese troops were still in the Soviet Union at the end of 1948 working on the construction of the far eastern railway and other fun projects.

The commie / socialist defenders point to when the high level people were rounded up in 1937 however aside from a few lulls the flow of people rounded up for anti-revolutionary activities - was quite steady.

It is a disgusting episode in the history of the 20th century.

To hear people say that Marxism failed because of the extreme focus on the military miss the mark entirely. They think somehow it could have succeeded without disastrous results when it is against human nature in so many respects.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2017, 04:45:38 AM »

The October Revolution also inspired the building of Welfare States in the capitalist world.

Not really. The Depression and the War are far more responsible for that. You're not going to see much of a welfare state constructed in the 1920s in the aftermath of the Bolshevik seizure of power in Russia.

Not entirely down to the depression though - many countries were already beginning to put the first elements of the welfare state together in the first decades of the 20th Century. For example, Britain was already introducing unemployment insurance and the old age pension in the 1910s, Switzerland was already nationalising key parts of its infrastructure and so on.

A lot of this was moralistic 19th century "muscular liberalism", but these moves also did happen in part as a result of the governing elite trying to stave off socialism at home. So maybe not a result of the Bolshevik revolution - but definitely a result of the fear of a socialist revolt.
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Jolly Slugg
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« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2017, 09:03:34 AM »

The Bolshevik coup d'etat in Russia, known to its admirers as the Great October Revolution. ("October" because it happened on 25 October according to the Julian calendar in use in Russia at that time.) at 100. Today many people think that the Bolsheviks overthrew the Tsarist regime. They didn't - the Tsar had abdicated in February and a Provisional Government had been formed by the democratic parties, pending free elections to be held in November. It was that government which the Bolsheviks led by Lenin and Trotsky overthrew. They were able to do so because the Provisional Government had failed to extricate Russia from the World War, and the war-weary Army rank-and-file mutinied against their officers and the government. When the elections were held, the Bolsheviks were soundly defeated, but they retained power anyway, and soon imposed a ruthless dictatorship of the Bolshevik (Communist) party, which held power for the next 73 years.
The Bolshevik revolution was the greatest man-made calamity of the 20th century, although it was itself a product of the calamity of World War I. It had two fateful consequences.
First, the prestige attached to Lenin and Trotsky, as the founders of the world's first socialist regime, enabled them to impose their model of the revolutionary vanguard party - unquestioning obedience to a self-perpetuating leadership answerable only to Moscow - on the word's communist parties, which Lenin and Trotsky insisted must split off from the existing socialist parties. This produced a permanent and fatal split in the world socialist movement, with terrible short-term consequences in many countries, and contributing in the longer term to the failure of the whole socialist project.
Second, the Bolshevik expropriation of private property, the driving of 4 million, mostly middle-class, Russians into exile, and the violent suppression of the peasantry (80% of the population), with the attendant mass executions and establishment of the labour camp system, terrified the middle classes of the rest of Europe. The result was the rise of fascism, first in Italy and then across the continent. Fascism would not have existed except as a reaction against communism. Mussolini, Franco, Horthy and Hitler rode to power on the back of middle-class fear of communism. In Germany in particular, where the Communist Party (KDP) continued the threaten the "bourgeoisie" with expropriation and worse as the Depression struck, middle-class and peasant voters flocked to the NSDAP, and the labour movement was unable to resist Hitler's rise because of the fatal hostility between the SPD and the KPD.
So the Bolshevik coup not only led directly to the establishment of the Soviet police state of Lenin, Stalin and Brezhnev, with the consequent civil war, famines, purges, mass executions and deportations, resulting in tens of millions of deaths. It also led to the victory of Nazism in Germany, and thus to World War II and the Holocaust, with tens of millions more dead. Soviet support also helped the Chinese communists to come to power, with many millions more deaths.
Even 26 years after the final bankruptcy and collapse of the Communist regime in 1991, the dire consequences of the Bolshevik coup of 1917 are still with us. North Korea -which may yet drag us all into World War III - is the last true Leninist regime, but China's hybrid "market Stalinist" regime, Putin's bellicose mafia state, the post-Soviet dictatorships in Central Asia, the war in Ukraine, and even the spread of global Islamist terrorism (which initially arose as a response to the Soviet attempt to impose communism on Afghanistan): all these are part of the continuing legacy of October. How different, how much better, 20th century history might have been if the revolution had been strangled at birth!
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Karpatsky
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« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2017, 12:08:29 PM »

The February Revolution was the greatest event in Russian history. The October Revolution was the worst.
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smoltchanov
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« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2017, 12:42:29 PM »

The February Revolution was the greatest event in Russian history. The October Revolution was the worst.

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CrabCake
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« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2017, 02:24:08 PM »

It's so frustrating in retrospect: you want to reach back in time, grab Kerensky etc by the lapels and shout "JUST END THE WAR BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!"
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Jolly Slugg
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2017, 05:43:25 PM »

It's so frustrating in retrospect: you want to reach back in time, grab Kerensky etc by the lapels and shout "JUST END THE WAR BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!"

The Entente/Allies were forcing him to stay in the war IIRC.
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Pyro
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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2017, 06:26:00 PM »

Molten hot takes ITT
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