TV series you used to love and now hate

[Mr. Smith]

Doctor Who.

What was the initial appeal of the show to you and where / how did it lose its way?

I liked the formulaic looseness initially. But it wore out its welcome after a while. Also, the cheap effects don't hold up so well.

[vanguard96]

Doctor Who.

What was the initial appeal of the show to you and where / how did it lose its way?

I liked the formulaic looseness initially. But it wore out its welcome after a while. Also, the cheap effects don't hold up so well.

Obviously holding episodes from the 70's by today's standards is a tough one though certain stories suffer for them - some have other things to like from them like Invasion of the Dinosaurs with its crappy looking dinosaurs has a pretty solid conspiracy story with betrayal behind it while others like Underworld which has cartoonish masked villains and a general lack drama are severely lacking. Doctor Who from that era was immensely popular in the UK and of course for those in America from the 70's and 80's who predominantly started out with Tom Baker.

A major criticism of the John Nathan Turner era was the brightly lit sets that did little to hide the budget limitations of the show. I stopped watching as a child in Season 22 (the first Colin Baker - 6th Doctor era) and to my knowledge the local PBS did not air the remaining seasons' stories. Thus I have absolutely no nostalgic fondness for the later years of the original series run from 1986-89 that helped me overlook the gaps in production values for the 80's stories when Buck Rogers & Battlestar Galactica had already shown what TV sci fi could do with a decent budget.

There are some examples - notably in the Russell T Davies era (Doctor 9 & 10) of already dated CG too - The Lazarus Effect, Idiot's Lantern, The Satan Pit, School Reunion, The Unicorn and the Wasp, and a few others come to mind in terms of having CG that does not look very good now. Obviously others are quite good - like Human Nature, The Girl in the Fireplace, and Blink - and these seem to rely a bit less on large CG heavy scenes in general.

[TDAS04]

Survivor.

[Mr. Smith]

Doctor Who.

What was the initial appeal of the show to you and where / how did it lose its way?

I liked the formulaic looseness initially. But it wore out its welcome after a while. Also, the cheap effects don't hold up so well.

Obviously holding episodes from the 70's by today's standards is a tough one though certain stories suffer for them - some have other things to like from them like Invasion of the Dinosaurs with its crappy looking dinosaurs has a pretty solid conspiracy story with betrayal behind it while others like Underworld which has cartoonish masked villains and a general lack drama are severely lacking. Doctor Who from that era was immensely popular in the UK and of course for those in America from the 70's and 80's who predominantly started out with Tom Baker.

A major criticism of the John Nathan Turner era was the brightly lit sets that did little to hide the budget limitations of the show. I stopped watching as a child in Season 22 (the first Colin Baker - 6th Doctor era) and to my knowledge the local PBS did not air the remaining seasons' stories. Thus I have absolutely no nostalgic fondness for the later years of the original series run from 1986-89 that helped me overlook the gaps in production values for the 80's stories when Buck Rogers & Battlestar Galactica had already shown what TV sci fi could do with a decent budget.

There are some examples - notably in the Russell T Davies era (Doctor 9 & 10) of already dated CG too - The Lazarus Effect, Idiot's Lantern, The Satan Pit, School Reunion, The Unicorn and the Wasp, and a few others come to mind in terms of having CG that does not look very good now. Obviously others are quite good - like Human Nature, The Girl in the Fireplace, and Blink - and these seem to rely a bit less on large CG heavy scenes in general.

I've seen nothing before Eccleston's run as the Doctor. Made somewhere into David Tennant before I gave up.

[vanguard96]

Doctor Who.

What was the initial appeal of the show to you and where / how did it lose its way?

I liked the formulaic looseness initially. But it wore out its welcome after a while. Also, the cheap effects don't hold up so well.

Obviously holding episodes from the 70's by today's standards is a tough one though certain stories suffer for them - some have other things to like from them like Invasion of the Dinosaurs with its crappy looking dinosaurs has a pretty solid conspiracy story with betrayal behind it while others like Underworld which has cartoonish masked villains and a general lack drama are severely lacking. Doctor Who from that era was immensely popular in the UK and of course for those in America from the 70's and 80's who predominantly started out with Tom Baker.

A major criticism of the John Nathan Turner era was the brightly lit sets that did little to hide the budget limitations of the show. I stopped watching as a child in Season 22 (the first Colin Baker - 6th Doctor era) and to my knowledge the local PBS did not air the remaining seasons' stories. Thus I have absolutely no nostalgic fondness for the later years of the original series run from 1986-89 that helped me overlook the gaps in production values for the 80's stories when Buck Rogers & Battlestar Galactica had already shown what TV sci fi could do with a decent budget.

There are some examples - notably in the Russell T Davies era (Doctor 9 & 10) of already dated CG too - The Lazarus Effect, Idiot's Lantern, The Satan Pit, School Reunion, The Unicorn and the Wasp, and a few others come to mind in terms of having CG that does not look very good now. Obviously others are quite good - like Human Nature, The Girl in the Fireplace, and Blink - and these seem to rely a bit less on large CG heavy scenes in general.

I've seen nothing before Eccleston's run as the Doctor. Made somewhere into David Tennant before I gave up.

Ah, a new series-only long lapsed fan - Tennant was last on the show in 2010 during the special episodes. It's been a while!

You never tried to watch any of the Matt Smith or Peter Capaldi stories out of curiosity? What filled the gap for you then after - anything sci-fi / fantasy genre?

[wxtransit]

Doctor Who is getting there thanks to full-on virtue signaling, post-modernist, identity politics replacing drama and good storytelling more often than not. The last two parter was solid if not for that I would say definitely yes about the past two or three seasons. I am not extremely hopeful for the new season and the casting decision itself is not the problem though if the direction of the series is a clue they will mine it in the worst ways possible as a wink to its increasingly left-of-center, teen & adult audience. I think I watch it more as a completist - though from time to time it can surprise. My daughter is interested because of the casting decision though I really hope what they offer is an example of television appropriate for a 11 year old kid and not like spinoffs like Class or Torchwood which lose some of the fun of the original series adventurous nature with the characters relationships and story arcs as an allegory of some larger social issue rather than the plots moving to the fore.

I'm still holding out hope for season 11. Somewhere inside of me hopes to believe that they chose Whittaker just because of her acting skills, and this is definitely a possibility, as she wasn't too bad in her run in Broadchurch.

[wxtransit]

How about...

Let's not.

[ChelseaT]

House M.D.. Ridiculously formulaic, and the ways he solves the puzzles seem like *** pulls.

[Virginiá]

I have loved these Netflix Marvel shows more or less, but recently on my latest binge, I'm getting sick of this "never kill anyone, ever, no matter what" position. They insert it everywhere. Whenever someone is about to kill, even if it's justified, everyone springs up as if they are there to police murder. They literally had a couple episodes where it seemed like all Daredevil was there to do was to police other heroes/people doing good and stop them from even considering killing villains to save lives.

They go up against a criminal organization old enough to have a murder count rivaling smaller instances of genocide and they would rather let the leaders go than to just kill them. When the only other option is to let them go and result in them murdering many more people, the choice is clear: take them out. I think people should try their best to avoid this but if you have the ability to save lives by stopping a very bad person, you absolutely should, if there is no other option. I feel like these comics/shows are teaching an absurdly unrealistic view of the world, in which it is more important than you keep your conscious clean than do something extreme that would save innocent lives.

-

And yes, I know comics have done this in the past (and now) both in order to keep the same villains around, which you can't do if you kill them, but also in order to make themselves acceptable to people/children of all ages, but it's getting extremely annoying to me at this point. I don't think this kind of "ultimate principled hero" is even necessary anymore to maintain sales. It's not the 40s/50s anymore.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

The West Wing.

For all my beef with Sorkin, when he was writing it the show was somewhat enjoyable and realistic. After that it became ridiculous (especially last season).

[TheSaint250]

Designated Survivor is increasingly becoming boring.

Also, I stopped liking Last Man Standing for some reason, but now that it's gone, I would do anything to bring it back.

In addition, ever since Blackish came back, I have yet to watch one episode.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Criminal Minds.....loved it for the first few seasons then it just got so gd gross.......too gross.

[Mr. Smith]

@Vanguard: I went back to animation, Avatar: The Last Airbender returned with a sequel series, Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Rebels ended being the best thing Star Wars, Gravity Falls happened too, and I could go on and on.

I figured if I'm gonna have mostly cartoony antics, at least let the world be visually stunning, have the characters do tthing Live Action can't do and cut back on the melodrama.


Back on topic, Supergirl is also a show I burned out on after 2nd season, though I've heard it pulled an Arrow, or as of late, Flash,so  I may look into it once my plate clears.

[Enduro]

I have loved these Netflix Marvel shows more or less, but recently on my latest binge, I'm getting sick of this "never kill anyone, ever, no matter what" position. They insert it everywhere. Whenever someone is about to kill, even if it's justified, everyone springs up as if they are there to police murder. They literally had a couple episodes where it seemed like all Daredevil was there to do was to police other heroes/people doing good and stop them from even considering killing villains to save lives.

They go up against a criminal organization old enough to have a murder count rivaling smaller instances of genocide and they would rather let the leaders go than to just kill them. When the only other option is to let them go and result in them murdering many more people, the choice is clear: take them out. I think people should try their best to avoid this but if you have the ability to save lives by stopping a very bad person, you absolutely should, if there is no other option. I feel like these comics/shows are teaching an absurdly unrealistic view of the world, in which it is more important than you keep your conscious clean than do something extreme that would save innocent lives.

-

And yes, I know comics have done this in the past (and now) both in order to keep the same villains around, which you can't do if you kill them, but also in order to make themselves acceptable to people/children of all ages, but it's getting extremely annoying to me at this point. I don't think this kind of "ultimate principled hero" is even necessary anymore to maintain sales. It's not the 40s/50s anymore.

That was one of my problems with the Netflix shows, but my main problem is that almost every villain is the same. A powerful criminal who sometimes go off the rails. The worst case being Cottonmouth who was a more boring rehash of Kingpin, they finally give him some interesting beats and kill him off in the same scene.
Kingpin, Kilgrave, and The Punisher were the best antagonists. (Punisher isn't really a villain having helped Daredevil and got his own show)

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

Criminal Minds.....loved it for the first few seasons then it just got so gd gross.......too gross.

I just stopped watching at some point and never felt urge to carry on.

[vanguard96]

@Vanguard: I went back to animation, Avatar: The Last Airbender returned with a sequel series, Star Wars: The Clone Wars and Rebels ended being the best thing Star Wars, Gravity Falls happened too, and I could go on and on.

I figured if I'm gonna have mostly cartoony antics, at least let the world be visually stunning, have the characters do tthing Live Action can't do and cut back on the melodrama.


Back on topic, Supergirl is also a show I burned out on after 2nd season, though I've heard it pulled an Arrow, or as of late, Flash,so  I may look into it once my plate clears.

I see.
I don't watch many cartoons by choice though my daughter sometimes does - she's 11 but she's watched Avatar and Gravity Falls. Now that we have TV Japan she watches that channel's shows a lot with my wife - I will graze but not pay too much attention - maybe I am washing dishes listening to a podcast and Arashi's game show - which is pretty fun visually as a live action show with the obstacle courses and various physical challenges is on. The same channel has Chibi Maruko-chan and we may sometimes have that on during dinner - sort of carrying on a tradition my wife had of having the tv on during dinner when she was back at home in Japan.

[vanguard96]

Doctor Who is getting there thanks to full-on virtue signaling, post-modernist, identity politics replacing drama and good storytelling more often than not. The last two parter was solid if not for that I would say definitely yes about the past two or three seasons. I am not extremely hopeful for the new season and the casting decision itself is not the problem though if the direction of the series is a clue they will mine it in the worst ways possible as a wink to its increasingly left-of-center, teen & adult audience. I think I watch it more as a completist - though from time to time it can surprise. My daughter is interested because of the casting decision though I really hope what they offer is an example of television appropriate for a 11 year old kid and not like spinoffs like Class or Torchwood which lose some of the fun of the original series adventurous nature with the characters relationships and story arcs as an allegory of some larger social issue rather than the plots moving to the fore.

I'm still holding out hope for season 11. Somewhere inside of me hopes to believe that they chose Whittaker just because of her acting skills, and this is definitely a possibility, as she wasn't too bad in her run in Broadchurch.

There's an outside chance it could be really good. I've not entirely given up hope - though I obviously don't love the current state of the show relative to the classic series. Next month's Christmas Special will be the first teaser look. Last year's was pretty decent. However they are a bit atypical in tone and will have side characters sometimes and be overtly Christmas-y hence limiting the kinds of story lines. It will be quite a while for a standard episode.