Are the .1% are shooting themselves in the foot by hording?
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  Are the .1% are shooting themselves in the foot by hording?
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Author Topic: Are the .1% are shooting themselves in the foot by hording?  (Read 854 times)
Greatest I am
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« on: October 17, 2017, 01:47:34 PM »

Are the .1% are shooting themselves in the foot by hording?

Presently, the rich preside over a demographic pyramid that is top shaped and de-stabled.

Ironically, because the rich have put themselves so far from the base, they themselves have become the most unstable part of the pyramid. This is not good for the rich.

Trickle down, an economic concept which is what we all live in, if increased would remedy the stability problem.

With the world below being de-stabilized by the rich, due to their distance from the bottom, and the rich knowing the benefits of stability, would be well advised to lower its demographic position and bring profits to the whole demography.

To the rich, with profits to all being possible, I would ask, what are you waiting for?

Regards
DL
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2017, 07:25:29 PM »
« Edited: October 17, 2017, 07:27:26 PM by Virginia »

Well, yes. But that's the thing about human nature. People are not by default long-term thinkers and many are prone to greed. What we see right now looks more like the wealthy stealing what they can while they ride the country in the ground, rather than some coordinated plot to pilfer the nation's treasure in a careful, methodical way. Thus there is no reason to expect any sort of grand strategy. They will just keep taking more and more using whatever means available to them until they are stopped.

In other words, the collective actions of those at the top were never meant to be sustainable.
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2017, 07:58:16 AM »

Well, yes. But that's the thing about human nature. People are not by default long-term thinkers and many are prone to greed. What we see right now looks more like the wealthy stealing what they can while they ride the country in the ground, rather than some coordinated plot to pilfer the nation's treasure in a careful, methodical way. Thus there is no reason to expect any sort of grand strategy. They will just keep taking more and more using whatever means available to them until they are stopped.

In other words, the collective actions of those at the top were never meant to be sustainable.

I disagree.
 
All demographic pyramids have a top. They must have one.

It is the shape that is important and at the moment, ours looks like a top and that is quite ugly in terms of equity and stability.

We do not want to stop the rich. We want them to do the right thing for the economy.

Regards
DL
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« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2017, 08:04:29 AM »

Well, yes. But that's the thing about human nature. People are not by default long-term thinkers and many are prone to greed. What we see right now looks more like the wealthy stealing what they can while they ride the country in the ground, rather than some coordinated plot to pilfer the nation's treasure in a careful, methodical way. Thus there is no reason to expect any sort of grand strategy. They will just keep taking more and more using whatever means available to them until they are stopped.

In other words, the collective actions of those at the top were never meant to be sustainable.

I disagree.
 
All demographic pyramids have a top. They must have one.

It is the shape that is important and at the moment, ours looks like a top and that is quite ugly in terms of equity and stability.

We do not want to stop the rich. We want them to do the right thing for the economy.

Regards
DL

You guys believe the same thing. Between 1945 and 1980, there was a "top", but it was more concerned about its long term survival than just doing whatever it wanted. The "top" will simply keep doing whatever it wants until either they are "stopped", decide on their own to lead the economy responsibly, or the whole thing collapses and we all get to spiral into a state of perpetual squalor for decades(or centuries if things truly spiral) or do things responsibly again.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2017, 08:10:38 AM »

Well, yes. But that's the thing about human nature. People are not by default long-term thinkers and many are prone to greed. What we see right now looks more like the wealthy stealing what they can while they ride the country in the ground, rather than some coordinated plot to pilfer the nation's treasure in a careful, methodical way. Thus there is no reason to expect any sort of grand strategy. They will just keep taking more and more using whatever means available to them until they are stopped.

In other words, the collective actions of those at the top were never meant to be sustainable.

I disagree.
 
All demographic pyramids have a top. They must have one.

It is the shape that is important and at the moment, ours looks like a top and that is quite ugly in terms of equity and stability.

We do not want to stop the rich. We want them to do the right thing for the economy.

Regards
DL

You guys believe the same thing. Between 1945 and 1980, there was a "top", but it was more concerned about its long term survival than just doing whatever it wanted. The "top" will simply keep doing whatever it wants until either they are "stopped", decide on their own to lead the economy responsibly, or the whole thing collapses and we all get to spiral into a state of perpetual squalor for decades(or centuries if things truly spiral) or do things responsibly again.

What the top wants is more profits and those can only come from the wealth they get to circulate.

The proposal here is that they put more into circulation and thus gain more profit for everyone.

It is the intelligent thing to do.

Regards
DL

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Person Man
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« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2017, 08:32:49 AM »

Well, yes. But that's the thing about human nature. People are not by default long-term thinkers and many are prone to greed. What we see right now looks more like the wealthy stealing what they can while they ride the country in the ground, rather than some coordinated plot to pilfer the nation's treasure in a careful, methodical way. Thus there is no reason to expect any sort of grand strategy. They will just keep taking more and more using whatever means available to them until they are stopped.

In other words, the collective actions of those at the top were never meant to be sustainable.

I disagree.
 
All demographic pyramids have a top. They must have one.

It is the shape that is important and at the moment, ours looks like a top and that is quite ugly in terms of equity and stability.

We do not want to stop the rich. We want them to do the right thing for the economy.

Regards
DL

You guys believe the same thing. Between 1945 and 1980, there was a "top", but it was more concerned about its long term survival than just doing whatever it wanted. The "top" will simply keep doing whatever it wants until either they are "stopped", decide on their own to lead the economy responsibly, or the whole thing collapses and we all get to spiral into a state of perpetual squalor for decades(or centuries if things truly spiral) or do things responsibly again.

What the top wants is more profits and those can only come from the wealth they get to circulate.

The proposal here is that they put more into circulation and thus gain more profit for everyone.

It is the intelligent thing to do.

Regards
DL



That's the entire "spread the wealth" thing. What's the point of having a free market system with no competition, demand, or opportunity? I guess the biggest firms can just market things to other who own or are at least senior at big firms, right?
It would be very interesting to see if the economy (perhaps ultimately with automation) can chug along with a few thousand billionaires selling things to a few million millionaires.  Especially when there are hundreds of millions of economically disenfranchised.
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« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2017, 03:06:36 PM »

I'm not sure the ".1%" generally have a self-conscious class identity that would lead them to think in these terms. That is I believe they tend to identify themselves with their company against their competitors, or as a part of an industry. They need to be convinced how a certain kind of investment will be good for their company or industry, not just for rich people more generally.
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« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2017, 03:15:52 PM »

No. When the mob gets riled up, they'll choose their victims, regardless of how well the "undesirables" planned to appease them.

Ideally, the .1% will be heavily prepared and armed and able to put down the rebellion in its cradle, unlike in France and Russia.
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Greatest I am
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2017, 04:26:52 PM »

Well, yes. But that's the thing about human nature. People are not by default long-term thinkers and many are prone to greed. What we see right now looks more like the wealthy stealing what they can while they ride the country in the ground, rather than some coordinated plot to pilfer the nation's treasure in a careful, methodical way. Thus there is no reason to expect any sort of grand strategy. They will just keep taking more and more using whatever means available to them until they are stopped.

In other words, the collective actions of those at the top were never meant to be sustainable.

I disagree.
 
All demographic pyramids have a top. They must have one.

It is the shape that is important and at the moment, ours looks like a top and that is quite ugly in terms of equity and stability.

We do not want to stop the rich. We want them to do the right thing for the economy.

Regards
DL

You guys believe the same thing. Between 1945 and 1980, there was a "top", but it was more concerned about its long term survival than just doing whatever it wanted. The "top" will simply keep doing whatever it wants until either they are "stopped", decide on their own to lead the economy responsibly, or the whole thing collapses and we all get to spiral into a state of perpetual squalor for decades(or centuries if things truly spiral) or do things responsibly again.

What the top wants is more profits and those can only come from the wealth they get to circulate.

The proposal here is that they put more into circulation and thus gain more profit for everyone.

It is the intelligent thing to do.

Regards
DL



That's the entire "spread the wealth" thing. What's the point of having a free market system with no competition, demand, or opportunity? I guess the biggest firms can just market things to other who own or are at least senior at big firms, right?
It would be very interesting to see if the economy (perhaps ultimately with automation) can chug along with a few thousand billionaires selling things to a few million millionaires.  Especially when there are hundreds of millions of economically disenfranchised.

Free market system?

What industrial system do you know of that is not regulated and taxed in some way?

Which do not need a government licence to operate?

A rich man cannot spend enough on himself. Only new poorer customers can and they are the only new source of revenue for the rich and all those up from his tier in our demography.

Regards
DL

 
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2017, 04:28:50 PM »

I'm not sure the ".1%" generally have a self-conscious class identity that would lead them to think in these terms. That is I believe they tend to identify themselves with their company against their competitors, or as a part of an industry. They need to be convinced how a certain kind of investment will be good for their company or industry, not just for rich people more generally.


One word should be all I need here to refute what toy put.

Philanthropy.

Regards
DL
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2017, 04:31:43 PM »

No. When the mob gets riled up, they'll choose their victims, regardless of how well the "undesirables" planned to appease them.

Ideally, the .1% will be heavily prepared and armed and able to put down the rebellion in its cradle, unlike in France and Russia.

The rich will not like living in their plush prisons.

We all seek the most freedom we can gain for ourselves and when push comes to shove, the rich will have their legislator slaves write the appropriate tax reform to end their self-imposed captivity.

Regards
DL
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2017, 04:35:32 PM »

No. What does this even mean? The rich don't owe anyone anything. If you don't like it get on their level.

You wish you were rich like them.
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2017, 04:41:33 PM »
« Edited: October 26, 2017, 04:47:02 PM by the 2018- The People v. The Pepe »

No. What does this even mean? The rich don't owe anyone anything. If you don't like it get on their level.

You wish you were rich like them.

Wealth and Power doesn't come with responsibility or accountability except to get more or lose it.  Alt-Right Trumpism 101.
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« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2017, 05:12:40 PM »

No. What does this even mean? The rich don't owe anyone anything. If you don't like it get on their level.

You wish you were rich like them.

Wealth and Power doesn't come with responsibility or accountability except to get more or lose it.  Alt-Right Trumpism 101.

Responsibility? That's something people who are chronically poor but don't bother to fix themselves should have. In America everyone has a chance to be in the 1%. There are NO excuses.

"Accountability" to whom? Who should they be accountable to? What do you mean by that?
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« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2017, 05:13:15 PM »

I'm actually surprised the rich don't care more about the environment and instead just use it to extract more profits. Aren't they supposed to care about their lineage? Millions/billions in paper and trust funds aren't going to do them much good when the climate goes haywire.
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« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2017, 05:21:37 PM »

I'm actually surprised the rich don't care more about the environment and instead just use it to extract more profits. Aren't they supposed to care about their lineage? Millions/billions in paper and trust funds aren't going to do them much good when the climate goes haywire.

The rich do a lot for the environment in the USA.

What have you done to help it?
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« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2017, 05:46:55 PM »

I'm actually surprised the rich don't care more about the environment and instead just use it to extract more profits. Aren't they supposed to care about their lineage? Millions/billions in paper and trust funds aren't going to do them much good when the climate goes haywire.

The rich do a lot for the environment in the USA.

What have you done to help it?

As a regular person and not an elite, there's very little I can do on my own either positively or negatively. I know that I haven't released tons of pollution into the air, removed mountaintops, dumped toxic sludge into bodies of water, etc. etc. though, so I think I win by default here.
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« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2017, 05:48:41 PM »

No. What does this even mean? The rich don't owe anyone anything. If you don't like it get on their level.

You wish you were rich like them.

We all have a responsibility to insure society and our economy works well.

The rich are not doing their part.

Sure I wish I was rich so that I could do even more of my responsibility to the rest of us.

Regards
DL
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« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2017, 05:50:47 PM »

No. What does this even mean? The rich don't owe anyone anything. If you don't like it get on their level.

You wish you were rich like them.

Wealth and Power doesn't come with responsibility or accountability except to get more or lose it.  Alt-Right Trumpism 101.

Responsibility? That's something people who are chronically poor but don't bother to fix themselves should have. In America everyone has a chance to be in the 1%. There are NO excuses.

"Accountability" to whom? Who should they be accountable to? What do you mean by that?

And you have yours?  Leaders are accountable to their communities. What is the point of suffering very powerful people around if they can't be trusted?  Its not just the Government that causes tyranny.  
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« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2017, 05:52:33 PM »

I'm actually surprised the rich don't care more about the environment and instead just use it to extract more profits. Aren't they supposed to care about their lineage? Millions/billions in paper and trust funds aren't going to do them much good when the climate goes haywire.

That and the infrastructure costs that we will face may just be the straw that breaks the rich camels back.

I hope so as the rich are slowing our economic progress with their hording.

Regards
DL
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« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2017, 05:53:26 PM »

No. What does this even mean? The rich don't owe anyone anything. If you don't like it get on their level.

You wish you were rich like them.

We all have a responsibility to insure society and our economy works well.

The rich are not doing their part.

Sure I wish I was rich so that I could do even more of my responsibility to the rest of us.

Regards
DL

Absolutely. Its great for everyone if one of us succeeds and makes it possible for others to succeed. Not so much if they are going to become tyrants.
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« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2017, 07:17:22 PM »

No. What does this even mean? The rich don't owe anyone anything. If you don't like it get on their level.

You wish you were rich like them.

We all have a responsibility to insure society and our economy works well.

The rich are not doing their part.

Sure I wish I was rich so that I could do even more of my responsibility to the rest of us.

Regards
DL

Absolutely. Its great for everyone if one of us succeeds and makes it possible for others to succeed. Not so much if they are going to become tyrants.

What is to stand between our oligarchs and us so that we might get a fair shake are our politicians.

Unfortunately, they have mostly all been bought off by those they are charged to protect us from.

Only a social revolution can bring the system to what it should have always been. For the people.

Regards
DL

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« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2017, 07:29:07 PM »

No. What does this even mean? The rich don't owe anyone anything. If you don't like it get on their level.

You wish you were rich like them.

If anything, some of the super-rich act as if the rest of us owe them everything. We are not far from the point at which survival is a privilege whose enjoyment is a contest of who can suffer the most on their behalf. Only problem with that -- survival is no privilege but instead a bane.

That is if Donald Trump is representative. See also medieval lords.
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« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2017, 07:31:20 PM »

The new generation of billionaires (Musk, Bezos, etc.) and even some of the older ones like Bloomberg, mainly the self-made ones, have done more to create a better world for the poor and working class than revolutionary socialists ever have. If push comes to shove, the majority of the non-billionaire class will side with their benefactors rather than those seeking their blood.

The mistake socialists make is thinking that this is still the early 20th centuries, where brutal oligarchs worked ordinary people to death with impunity. It's not. Overthrowing the social order would destroy a lot of the things we "regular joes" benefit from as well.
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« Reply #24 on: October 26, 2017, 07:52:48 PM »

The new generation of billionaires (Musk, Bezos, etc.) and even some of the older ones like Bloomberg, mainly the self-made ones, have done more to create a better world for the poor and working class than revolutionary socialists ever have. If push comes to shove, the majority of the non-billionaire class will side with their benefactors rather than those seeking their blood.

The mistake socialists make is thinking that this is still the early 20th centuries, where brutal oligarchs worked ordinary people to death with impunity. It's not. Overthrowing the social order would destroy a lot of the things we "regular joes" benefit from as well.

Socialism is sh*t . Don't get me wrong but capitalism is just as utopian, morally lazy, and causes just as many problems. For every Amazon, there is a Medicare. For every Maduro, there is a Trump.
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