Clinton ridicules Sanders & say she is committed to build a winning Dem party
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  Clinton ridicules Sanders & say she is committed to build a winning Dem party
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Author Topic: Clinton ridicules Sanders & say she is committed to build a winning Dem party  (Read 3034 times)
Maxwell
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« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2017, 05:08:47 PM »

jesus christ


this democratic party, with historic lows in the house and senate, IS the democratic party that the Clinton's built. it's mind boggling to me that she thinks she'll build a winning democratic party when every single lever of the party is controlled by either someone her family had hand-picked or had their fingers in the dough of the first Clinton administration. they have utterly dominated the party and so they can not change it unless the Clintons have fundamentally evolved (doubtful).

why does she INSIST on re-fighting, re-fighting, and re-fighting god damn primary battles. it's beyond annoying and not helpful and I say that as someone who voted for her in the primaries. enough is enough.

For whatever flaws some of you may point about Sanders, Sanders isn't going around the country saying things like "hillary blew the election, hillary blew the election", he's going around the country saying things like "hey medicare for all might be a good idea, Trump is a disastrous president, ect".
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Thunderbird is the word
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« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2017, 05:10:41 PM »

jesus christ


this democratic party, with historic lows in the house and senate, IS the democratic party that the Clinton's built. it's mind boggling to me that she thinks she'll build a winning democratic party when every single lever of the party is controlled by either someone her family had hand-picked or had their fingers in the dough of the first Clinton administration. they have utterly dominated the party and so they can not change it unless the Clintons have fundamentally evolved (doubtful).

why does she INSIST on re-fighting, re-fighting, and re-fighting god damn primary battles. it's beyond annoying and not helpful and I say that as someone who voted for her in the primaries. enough is enough.

For whatever flaws some of you may point about Sanders, Sanders isn't going around the country saying things like "hillary blew the election, hillary blew the election", he's going around the country saying things like "hey medicare for all might be a good idea, Trump is a disastrous president, ect".
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Thunderbird is the word
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« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2017, 05:16:52 PM »

As someone who voted for Bernie in the primary and Hillary in the general unreservedly I couldn't agree more with what Maxwell said. This endless relitigation of the 2016 primaries is destructive and I really worry about what it means for the future because ultimately I do want Democrats to win.
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #28 on: October 18, 2017, 05:20:19 PM »

Did people spend all of 2005 giving themselves ulcers trying to defend John Kerry as a good candidate who did nothing wrong or is this a unique form of mass psychosis?
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jfern
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« Reply #29 on: October 18, 2017, 05:28:19 PM »

Hey Hillary, great job winning against someone less popular than Barry Goldwater! Clearly we should take your advice on how to win.

If Bernie cared so much about civil rights why did he take his ass to a Lilly white state?

Burlington has more minorities than Chappaqua.
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uti2
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2017, 05:29:08 PM »

jesus christ


this democratic party, with historic lows in the house and senate, IS the democratic party that the Clinton's built. it's mind boggling to me that she thinks she'll build a winning democratic party when every single lever of the party is controlled by either someone her family had hand-picked or had their fingers in the dough of the first Clinton administration. they have utterly dominated the party and so they can not change it unless the Clintons have fundamentally evolved (doubtful).

why does she INSIST on re-fighting, re-fighting, and re-fighting god damn primary battles. it's beyond annoying and not helpful and I say that as someone who voted for her in the primaries. enough is enough.

For whatever flaws some of you may point about Sanders, Sanders isn't going around the country saying things like "hillary blew the election, hillary blew the election", he's going around the country saying things like "hey medicare for all might be a good idea, Trump is a disastrous president, ect".

She wants her ideology to remain the party's standard. Gore/Kerry didn't fight after their losses, and this gave Obama an opening.
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Canis
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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2017, 05:30:16 PM »

Sanders can go minimize the concerns of racial minorities in 99.9 percent white Vermont.

Sanders has done more work for minorities than Clinton ever did.


If Bernie cared so much about civil rights why did he take his ass to a Lilly white state?
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Thunderbird is the word
Zen Lunatic
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« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2017, 05:31:08 PM »

Did people spend all of 2005 giving themselves ulcers trying to defend John Kerry as a good candidate who did nothing wrong or is this a unique form of mass psychosis?

Twitter has really been a cancer on public discourse. Come to think of it Adlai Stevenson was probably the last Democratic nominee who had a personality cult around him after losing.
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Maxwell
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2017, 05:33:13 PM »

jesus christ


this democratic party, with historic lows in the house and senate, IS the democratic party that the Clinton's built. it's mind boggling to me that she thinks she'll build a winning democratic party when every single lever of the party is controlled by either someone her family had hand-picked or had their fingers in the dough of the first Clinton administration. they have utterly dominated the party and so they can not change it unless the Clintons have fundamentally evolved (doubtful).

why does she INSIST on re-fighting, re-fighting, and re-fighting god damn primary battles. it's beyond annoying and not helpful and I say that as someone who voted for her in the primaries. enough is enough.

For whatever flaws some of you may point about Sanders, Sanders isn't going around the country saying things like "hillary blew the election, hillary blew the election", he's going around the country saying things like "hey medicare for all might be a good idea, Trump is a disastrous president, ect".

She wants her ideology to remain the party's standard. Gore/Kerry didn't fight after their losses, and this gave Obama an opening.

okay - how was Obama anything different than the Democratic standard ideologically?
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Thunderbird is the word
Zen Lunatic
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« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2017, 05:34:04 PM »

Sanders can go minimize the concerns of racial minorities in 99.9 percent white Vermont.

Sanders has done more work for minorities than Clinton ever did.


If Bernie cared so much about civil rights why did he take his ass to a Lilly white state?


if Hillary cared so much why the hell did she make explicitly racist appeals in 2008? https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/clinton-touts-white-support/


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uti2
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« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2017, 05:40:34 PM »

jesus christ


this democratic party, with historic lows in the house and senate, IS the democratic party that the Clinton's built. it's mind boggling to me that she thinks she'll build a winning democratic party when every single lever of the party is controlled by either someone her family had hand-picked or had their fingers in the dough of the first Clinton administration. they have utterly dominated the party and so they can not change it unless the Clintons have fundamentally evolved (doubtful).

why does she INSIST on re-fighting, re-fighting, and re-fighting god damn primary battles. it's beyond annoying and not helpful and I say that as someone who voted for her in the primaries. enough is enough.

For whatever flaws some of you may point about Sanders, Sanders isn't going around the country saying things like "hillary blew the election, hillary blew the election", he's going around the country saying things like "hey medicare for all might be a good idea, Trump is a disastrous president, ect".

She wants her ideology to remain the party's standard. Gore/Kerry didn't fight after their losses, and this gave Obama an opening.

okay - how was Obama anything different than the Democratic standard ideologically?

RUSSIA - FP in general.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/01/hillary-putin-doesnt-have-a-soul-005126
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Canis
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« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2017, 05:42:00 PM »

Sanders can go minimize the concerns of racial minorities in 99.9 percent white Vermont.

Sanders has done more work for minorities than Clinton ever did.


If Bernie cared so much about civil rights why did he take his ass to a Lilly white state?


if Hillary cared so much why the hell did she make explicitly racist appeals in 2008? https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/clinton-touts-white-support/




U talking to me?
Did you see the pic I posted? I agree with ya
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Maxwell
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« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2017, 05:43:06 PM »

jesus christ


this democratic party, with historic lows in the house and senate, IS the democratic party that the Clinton's built. it's mind boggling to me that she thinks she'll build a winning democratic party when every single lever of the party is controlled by either someone her family had hand-picked or had their fingers in the dough of the first Clinton administration. they have utterly dominated the party and so they can not change it unless the Clintons have fundamentally evolved (doubtful).

why does she INSIST on re-fighting, re-fighting, and re-fighting god damn primary battles. it's beyond annoying and not helpful and I say that as someone who voted for her in the primaries. enough is enough.

For whatever flaws some of you may point about Sanders, Sanders isn't going around the country saying things like "hillary blew the election, hillary blew the election", he's going around the country saying things like "hey medicare for all might be a good idea, Trump is a disastrous president, ect".

She wants her ideology to remain the party's standard. Gore/Kerry didn't fight after their losses, and this gave Obama an opening.

okay - how was Obama anything different than the Democratic standard ideologically?

RUSSIA - FP in general.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/01/hillary-putin-doesnt-have-a-soul-005126

what is it with Dem hawks and this weird obsession with claiming Putin doesn't have a soul. It's so odd and counter productive. Biden did it too and apparently its blowing up on social media for some reason.
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136or142
Adam T
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« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2017, 06:10:20 PM »

I guess we are going to relive the 2016 Democratic primaries over and over again.

And why shouldn't it?  There are genuine debates in the Democratic Party over a number of issues, generally but not entirely between the more centrist Democratic wing of Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and the more left Democratic wing led by the non-Democrat Bernie Sanders.

I fail to see what is wrong with a political party debating ideas.
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Rookie Yinzer
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« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2017, 06:38:51 PM »

Sanders can go minimize the concerns of racial minorities in 99.9 percent white Vermont.

Sanders has done more work for minorities than Clinton ever did.


If Bernie cared so much about civil rights why did he take his ass to a Lilly white state?


if Hillary cared so much why the hell did she make explicitly racist appeals in 2008? https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/clinton-touts-white-support/



A condemnation of Sanders' thinking on "identity politics" is not an endorsement of Hillary's past actions. She was problematic as well--- but I do agree with her that Sanders' strategy alienates a segment of voters he NEEDS if he has serious intentions of running in a national race.

Saying that attacking Wall Street will end systemic racism is naive and ignorant.
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Free Bird
TheHawk
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« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2017, 06:41:16 PM »

Then go away
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Thunderbird is the word
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« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2017, 06:57:45 PM »

Sanders can go minimize the concerns of racial minorities in 99.9 percent white Vermont.

Sanders has done more work for minorities than Clinton ever did.


If Bernie cared so much about civil rights why did he take his ass to a Lilly white state?


if Hillary cared so much why the hell did she make explicitly racist appeals in 2008? https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/clinton-touts-white-support/




U talking to me?
Did you see the pic I posted? I agree with ya

Misread, apologies
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2017, 07:01:31 PM »

Did people spend all of 2005 giving themselves ulcers trying to defend John Kerry as a good candidate who did nothing wrong or is this a unique form of mass psychosis?

Twitter has really been a cancer on public discourse. Come to think of it Adlai Stevenson was probably the last Democratic nominee who had a personality cult around him after losing.

Humphrey.


But seriously, why can't she just accept the moral victory (like Sam Tilden) and then pull a Ford/Carter and let the Foundation do the speaking?
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White Trash
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« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2017, 07:06:47 PM »

The Clintons really have nothing left to offer the Democratic Party. They've had their time and its really sad to see them constantly trying to make themselves relevant in it again. This idea that Clinton lost solely because of her personal issues and scandals is bunk. The Democratic Party needs a complete overhaul of its currently toxic image. The Democrats will not take the House in 2018, because as of right now we are still seen as the Clinton/DLC/Third Way party.

Hillary Clinton and her more fervent supporters need to understand that we aren't living in the 90s anymore. These kind of politics aren't as popular as they used to be.
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AtorBoltox
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« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2017, 07:07:02 PM »

Where did this idea come from that Bernie wants democrats to 'give up' on civil rights?
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Maxwell
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« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2017, 07:10:20 PM »

Sanders can go minimize the concerns of racial minorities in 99.9 percent white Vermont.

Sanders has done more work for minorities than Clinton ever did.


If Bernie cared so much about civil rights why did he take his ass to a Lilly white state?


if Hillary cared so much why the hell did she make explicitly racist appeals in 2008? https://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/clinton-touts-white-support/



A condemnation of Sanders' thinking on "identity politics" is not an endorsement of Hillary's past actions. She was problematic as well--- but I do agree with her that Sanders' strategy alienates a segment of voters he NEEDS if he has serious intentions of running in a national race.

Saying that attacking Wall Street will end systemic racism is naive and ignorant.

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JA
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« Reply #46 on: October 18, 2017, 07:35:46 PM »

Where did this idea come from that Bernie wants democrats to 'give up' on civil rights?

If they acknowledged that Bernie was being arrested standing up for Civil Rights and marching with African American protesters in the '60s while Hillary was still a "Goldwater Girl," they wouldn't have anything left to disagree with him on. Then they'd have to admit the real problem here is that they simply don't agree with Left-wing economics or even the foundation of the Left, which is the defense of the rights and interests of all the underprivileged, which begins with class analysis and the class struggle, and are nothing more than displaced Rockefeller Republicans alienated from the GOP by its anti-elitism. They go wherever they think their technocratic, managerial identity is most dominant and respected; the Democratic Party is nothing more than a vehicle for the maintenance of their power following Nixon and Reagan's purging of them from the Republican Party. These latte liberals are often the same ones gentrifying urban neighborhoods, displacing the working and lower classes they claim to champion; they're the same ones living in bourgeois neighborhoods safe from the negative effects their policies create, like the poverty and crime resulting from rampant inequality, the increasing harassment and police violence against minorities because White liberals want to feel safe in their hip new condos built over the former homes of the poor families they priced out of the area, and the degraded conditions of schools, rural communities, and "uncool" cities left to rot, while they preach the right-wing mantra of personal responsibility and shaming people for being poor.

Then, they join the Clinton cult, conveniently ignoring her not-so-distant history of racist dogwhistle politics, like she used in her 2008 campaign against Obama.

  • The Drudge Report claimed the infamous photo of Obama in Somali garb was passed on by a Clinton staffer. The head of Clinton's campaign even said, “If Barack Obama’s campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed.”
  • Hillary Clinton suggested that White voters were more important when she said that Obama's support among "working, hard-working Americans, White Americans" was weakening and "how Whites in both states who had not completed college" supported her.
  • Clinton's criticism of Obama over Reverand Jeremiah Wright, which the right-wing quickly co-opted.
  • Clinton's continuous demands that Obama "denounce" and "reject" Louis Farrakhan's endorsement.
  • Clinton's doe-eyed statement that there was nothing to suggest Obama was a Muslim, "as far as I know."
  • Clinton suggested to reporters that McCain was more qualified for President than Obama in March '08 because he would bring "his lifetime of experience" while Obama would "put forth a speech he made in 2002."
  • The Clinton campaign pushed the story of Obama's connection to Weather Underground in February '08, before the McCain campaign tried it, and even said, "wonder what the Republicans will do with this issue."
  • Clinton repeatedly cited the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy as a reason to remain in the race despite falling far behind, which implied there was still time for Obama to be assassinated before the primaries ended.
  • 15% of Clinton supporters switched over to vote for McCain against Obama in 2008, while 12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump.
  • Hillary promoted her husband's 1994 Crime Bill by saying of African American children, "they are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called 'super-predators.' No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel."
  • Hillary ardently supported and characterized her husband's welfare reform that eliminated Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) as late as 2008 as a success, which imposed a 5-year lifetime limit on welfare assistance and barred undocumented immigrants from licensed professions, among other things.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #47 on: October 18, 2017, 07:44:31 PM »

No good reason? She was asked about the party becoming the party of "identity politics" and rightfully lambasted Sen. Sanders who has said since the defeat in November that Democrats need to be quiet about "social" issues and primarily focus on economic ones so we don't piss off triggered snowflakes in the Rust Belt. She beat him soundly in the primary so clearly her way is the way the majority of the party wants to go.

Hillary Clinton lost because of who she is, not her policies.

Sanders can go minimize the concerns of racial minorities in 99.9 percent white Vermont.

You know what would help minorities to get out of poverty and blighted inner cities? Left-wing economics instead of sucking up lilly-white Wall Street.
Once again, populist leftists scapegoat the financial industry upon which everyone depends and portray a false narrative in which the only way to help working class people is to focus exclusively on their interests and create a class war.
PS. You can't win an election with just working class people. Most Americans aren't working class.

Indeed. We must focus on everyone, instead of only Wall Street.
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GoTfan
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« Reply #48 on: October 18, 2017, 07:47:13 PM »

The Clintons really have nothing left to offer the Democratic Party. They've had their time and its really sad to see them constantly trying to make themselves relevant in it again. This idea that Clinton lost solely because of her personal issues and scandals is bunk. The Democratic Party needs a complete overhaul of its currently toxic image. The Democrats will not take the House in 2018, because as of right now we are still seen as the Clinton/DLC/Third Way party.

Hillary Clinton and her more fervent supporters need to understand that we aren't living in the 90s anymore. These kind of politics aren't as popular as they used to be.

Once again, Gothic is right. The Clinton days are over.
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Sestak
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« Reply #49 on: October 18, 2017, 07:52:20 PM »

Two things:

1. Left wing economics won't pull minorities out of poverty. It'll just push everyone else into poverty.

2. Can we stop with this Clinton vs Sanders bickering? You hardcore Hillary/Bernie guys are giving LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE A HEADACHE
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