Perez removing Ellison supporters from DNC
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JA
Jacobin American
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« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2017, 12:53:08 AM »

“We don’t have the luxury to walk out of this room divided.” Tom Perez as he silently removes dissent.

He's right. The democratic party must remain united behind capitalism. If they become the party of Bernie, Trump will be re-elected.

They will do exactly that - and they will continue to lose elections.
Well they can't adopt Bernie plan either. Socialism and even left wing populism can not work in American politics because Republicans will use it as a racial wedge issue. Democrats do not want debate whether football players should get free tuition or illegal immigrants get free health care in 2018 or 2020.

Because they're cowards.

No, because these are the kind of incendiary divisive topics that split the electoral just the way Trump likes, which is why he always harps on this stuff. It pits the majority of the electorate against the "other." A better way is to craft a broad appeal to the personal self-interests of the vast majority of the electorate, like Corbyn's "For the Many" slogan, which is a message well-suited for left wing populism, anyway.

I'd argue Corbyn's success has more to do with his convictions and the strength with which he defends them, not his slogan.

If you (in the general sense) think a slogan is at all important in a political campaign, you likely fall for the ridiculous notion that campaigns can be treated like a marketing strategy. Look at how well that technocratic bullsh**t has done. People care about conviction, honesty, faith that the candidate cares about them and their interests, and, most importantly, a mass social movement that primarily operates at the grassroots level. Sanders, Corbyn, and, to a lesser extent, Obama, knew this and used it to their advantage.
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Beet
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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2017, 01:02:28 AM »

Conviction only works if it's about things the electorate already agrees with to begin with. People who believe that's all you need live in a world so luxurious, the result of politics is entirely within their control, if they only do the right thing, and no matter what happens, it's what they deserve. All they have to do is forthrightly express their views for the majority to accede to them. Why, winning elections is as easy as a slice of Apple Pie, and as just as the statue of blind justice outside our courthouses. Not all of us live in this beautiful heaven.
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JonHawk
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2017, 01:04:59 AM »

Im liking Perez more and more
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Shadows
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« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2017, 01:35:00 AM »
« Edited: October 19, 2017, 01:46:05 AM by Shadows »

“We don’t have the luxury to walk out of this room divided.” Tom Perez as he silently removes dissent.

He's right. The democratic party must remain united behind capitalism. If they become the party of Bernie, Trump will be re-elected.

I forgot how Hillary soundly defeated Trump last year by defending her record with Wall Street, wooing "muh moderate suburban Republicans," and running the exact opposite of a populist campaign. That damn memory of mine...

Remember three words: Private Email Server. Take that away, and she wins in a landslide.

The modern US economy was build by the uber socialist FDR who not only wanted free healthcare, free education but also free guaranteed universal basic income & taxed people at 90%+. And he introduced a minimum wage, broke banks & said corporations which pay low wages have no right to exist.

He had the highest possible GDP growth rates, he was more of a socialist than Bernie ever way & he was the most electable candidate Dem ever had crushing Republicans & bringing about a progressive era which lasted almost half a century. The man is not only the greatest President ever but got the whole world to follow his economic vision. And it had the best economic period of prosperity in centuries.
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Shadows
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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2017, 01:45:55 AM »

“We don’t have the luxury to walk out of this room divided.” Tom Perez as he silently removes dissent.

He's right. The democratic party must remain united behind capitalism. If they become the party of Bernie, Trump will be re-elected.

They will do exactly that - and they will continue to lose elections.
Well they can't adopt Bernie plan either. Socialism and even left wing populism can not work in American politics because Republicans will use it as a racial wedge issue. Democrats do not want debate whether football players should get free tuition or illegal immigrants get free health care in 2018 or 2020.

Because they're cowards.

No, because these are the kind of incendiary divisive topics that split the electoral just the way Trump likes, which is why he always harps on this stuff. It pits the majority of the electorate against the "other." A better way is to craft a broad appeal to the personal self-interests of the vast majority of the electorate, like Corbyn's "For the Many" slogan, which is a message well-suited for left wing populism, anyway.

No1 cares about Corbyn's slogan. It is what he stands for. This is another re-alignment period. Booms & busts, excesses of the financial world, 6 people having half the world's wealth, massive cost of college, cutting of welfare & tax-breaks for wealthy people - This is the model & it is failing.

Like in the 30's with FDR (US) & Atlee(UK), there was a new re-alignment. Like Reagan(US) & Thatcher(UK) had the re-alignment in the 80s & how Neo Liberal forces evolved with Blair's New Labour(UK) & Clinton's New Democrats(US), this is the age of socialist leaders in the mould of Clement Atlee & FDR creating a new era. Sanders & Corbyn have a long record of standing for progressive policies. They are perceived as honest, having literally foretold the total inadequacy & failure of the current fake-capitalistic model which needs some socialistic checks & balances to have a really free market. The balance has tilted in an extreme lunatic right wing direction.

Now is the time to bring balance back to the universe & world economics. Sanders & Corbyn are only bringing it back to where it should be. People don't want Wall Street & Big Donor cozy politicians who give small incremental changes anymore. Booker or Harris just don't fit the bill. If the left wing doesn't stand up for the working class, extreme lunatic right politicians will fill that void.
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Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
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« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2017, 02:22:55 AM »

“We don’t have the luxury to walk out of this room divided.” Tom Perez as he silently removes dissent.

He's right. The democratic party must remain united behind capitalism. If they become the party of Bernie, Trump will be re-elected.

I forgot how Hillary soundly defeated Trump last year by defending her record with Wall Street, wooing "muh moderate suburban Republicans," and running the exact opposite of a populist campaign. That damn memory of mine...

Remember three words: Private Email Server. Take that away, and she wins in a landslide.

The modern US economy was build by the uber socialist FDR who not only wanted free healthcare, free education but also free guaranteed universal basic income & taxed people at 90%+. And he introduced a minimum wage, broke banks & said corporations which pay low wages have no right to exist.

He had the highest possible GDP growth rates, he was more of a socialist than Bernie ever way & he was the most electable candidate Dem ever had crushing Republicans & bringing about a progressive era which lasted almost half a century. The man is not only the greatest President ever but got the whole world to follow his economic vision. And it had the best economic period of prosperity in centuries.

While I believe that FDR was a good president overall, I do not agree with taxing people at 90%+ or a universal basic income. You'll notice that we haven't had that 90%+ top tax rate for nearly 70 years  now - and that's because the country woke up and realized that tax rates that high actually discourage people from working.
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« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2017, 02:47:25 AM »

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

This needs to be emphasized.
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gerritcole
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« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2017, 03:06:27 AM »

“We don’t have the luxury to walk out of this room divided.” Tom Perez as he silently removes dissent.

He's right. The democratic party must remain united behind capitalism. If they become the party of Bernie, Trump will be re-elected.

They will do exactly that - and they will continue to lose elections.
Well they can't adopt Bernie plan either. Socialism and even left wing populism can not work in American politics because Republicans will use it as a racial wedge issue. Democrats do not want debate whether football players should get free tuition or illegal immigrants get free health care in 2018 or 2020.

Because they're cowards.

No, because these are the kind of incendiary divisive topics that split the electoral just the way Trump likes, which is why he always harps on this stuff. It pits the majority of the electorate against the "other." A better way is to craft a broad appeal to the personal self-interests of the vast majority of the electorate, like Corbyn's "For the Many" slogan, which is a message well-suited for left wing populism, anyway.

I'd argue Corbyn's success has more to do with his convictions and the strength with which he defends them, not his slogan.

Corbyn's success comes from promising the masses free stuff with no plan to pay for anything, quite easy to do when you're not in power
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HAnnA MArin County
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« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2017, 06:20:47 AM »


Jfern really needs to go on a low-sodium diet.
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Cactus Jack
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« Reply #34 on: October 19, 2017, 07:13:35 AM »

As we all know, jfern is a chronic turbo-twat who can chronically f**k off, but to all of the hardcore establishment hacks I see in this thread, allow me to quote a Weird Al lyric that accurately sums up my feelings about the Democratic Party's chances in the 2018 midterms under Perez:

"I'll be laughing my head off when you're burning in Hell."
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dead0man
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« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2017, 07:20:16 AM »

When did I ever downplay anyone's racism? Most rural White people are racists. Yes, it's true. I never denied that.
it's unfortunate that you believe that.  Thankfully it's not true.


(unless you have a really really stupidly broad definition of racism where pretty much everybody is a little racist, fine, whatever, but it's kind of a meaningless term at that point)
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Torie
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« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2017, 07:34:48 AM »

When did I ever downplay anyone's racism? Most rural White people are racists. Yes, it's true. I never denied that.
it's unfortunate that you believe that.  Thankfully it's not true.


(unless you have a really really stupidly broad definition of racism where pretty much everybody is a little racist, fine, whatever, but it's kind of a meaningless term at that point)

That is part of the whole syndrome. Many rural whites I suspect feel that they are viewed as HP's by the cosmopolitans, and that just exacerbates the problem. It's like a teacher who decides a student is a bad boy, and expects him to be a bad boy, so the student tries to live up to the teacher's expectations by being a brat. In my neck of the woods, often persons of color and the white working class align on local issues, against the white gentry, for what it is worth. Things are far more complex than this broad brush labeling. I don't like broad brush labeling in general in fact.
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2017, 08:50:22 AM »

“We don’t have the luxury to walk out of this room divided.” Tom Perez as he silently removes dissent.

He's right. The democratic party must remain united behind capitalism. If they become the party of Bernie, Trump will be re-elected.

They will do exactly that - and they will continue to lose elections.
Well they can't adopt Bernie plan either. Socialism and even left wing populism can not work in American politics because Republicans will use it as a racial wedge issue. Democrats do not want debate whether football players should get free tuition or illegal immigrants get free health care in 2018 or 2020.

Because they're cowards.

No, because these are the kind of incendiary divisive topics that split the electoral just the way Trump likes, which is why he always harps on this stuff. It pits the majority of the electorate against the "other." A better way is to craft a broad appeal to the personal self-interests of the vast majority of the electorate, like Corbyn's "For the Many" slogan, which is a message well-suited for left wing populism, anyway.

I'd argue Corbyn's success has more to do with his convictions and the strength with which he defends them, not his slogan.

Corbyn's success comes from promising the masses free stuff with no plan to pay for anything, quite easy to do when you're not in power

Also, telling them who to hate for all their problems, and letting them have dark fantasies of revenge. Grievance-driven populists always have a raw appeal.
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Grumpier Than Uncle Joe
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« Reply #38 on: October 19, 2017, 09:36:50 AM »

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publicunofficial
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« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2017, 09:37:29 AM »

Good. Purge the Party of those who cannot accept reality and want to lose in a landslide like McGovern 1972 did or Mondale 1984 did: both by going too far left.

Centrists like Bill Clinton and Obama win. Far lefties like Sanders, McGovern, and Mondale lose.

Except for that one guy who was the closest America ever came to electing a socialist, who America loved so much they elected him 4 times.
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Santander
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« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2017, 09:38:39 AM »

Good. We don't need Sharia supporters in our party.
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Rookie Yinzer
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« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2017, 09:50:06 AM »

It is really going to take losing to a Republican by 350+ electoral votes for some to get through their thick skulls that Bernie and Bernie-lite candidates are not going to win the Oval.

And I don't care about you all mentioning Hillary Clinton. She was her own ball of scandal and corruption (true or untrue).

I think it's funny how Bernouts really believe the only position a Dem can have is "Clinton" or "Bernie". And if you don't support Bernie you're some Wall Street puppet shill. Like... LOL
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Sir Mohamed
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« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2017, 09:54:18 AM »

Good. We don't need Sharia supporters in our party.

Being a muslim =/= a supporter of sharia.


I count myself a muslim, but only laws I am committed to (through conviction) are the constitution and laws of the United States and the constitution and laws of the state of California.
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Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas
Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2017, 12:34:14 PM »

“We don’t have the luxury to walk out of this room divided.” Tom Perez as he silently removes dissent.

He's right. The democratic party must remain united behind capitalism. If they become the party of Bernie, Trump will be re-elected.

They will do exactly that - and they will continue to lose elections.
Well they can't adopt Bernie plan either. Socialism and even left wing populism can not work in American politics because Republicans will use it as a racial wedge issue. Democrats do not want debate whether football players should get free tuition or illegal immigrants get free health care in 2018 or 2020.

Because they're cowards.

No, because these are the kind of incendiary divisive topics that split the electoral just the way Trump likes, which is why he always harps on this stuff. It pits the majority of the electorate against the "other." A better way is to craft a broad appeal to the personal self-interests of the vast majority of the electorate, like Corbyn's "For the Many" slogan, which is a message well-suited for left wing populism, anyway.

I'd argue Corbyn's success has more to do with his convictions and the strength with which he defends them, not his slogan.

Corbyn's success comes from promising the masses free stuff with no plan to pay for anything, quite easy to do when you're not in power

Also, telling them who to hate for all their problems, and letting them have dark fantasies of revenge. Grievance-driven populists always have a raw appeal.

You're saying that like it's a bad thing. Huh

It killed one hundred million people, but have fun, I guess.
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« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2017, 01:00:36 PM »

Good , socialists should not be allowed to take over leadership of either party.


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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2017, 01:15:41 PM »
« Edited: October 19, 2017, 02:24:39 PM by Sweet Meteor O' Death 2016 »

Good , socialists should not be allowed to take over leadership of either party.




I would say it's lawless populists that need to be stopped, on a larger scale. As Republicans, we can't be backing nullificationists like Roy Moore either, if we want our republic to stay healthy.
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Computer89
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« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2017, 01:45:44 PM »

Good , socialists should not be allowed to take over leadership of either party.




I would say it's lawless populists that need to be stopped, on a larger scale. As Republicans, we can't be backing nullificationists like Roy Moore either, if he want our republic to stay healthy.


yes populists on both sides should not be allowed to take power in either party , and for on the gop side they need to be forced out of the party.

The GOP donors should stop funding right wing populists,  the GOP should run conservative independents if a right wing populist wins the primary .
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publicunofficial
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« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2017, 04:59:16 PM »

Except for that one guy who was the closest America ever came to electing a socialist, who America loved so much they elected him 4 times.

Well he threw tens of thousands of Japanese civilians into camps so I guess he was the kind socialist that you’d admire.

Good post, Tim.
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« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2017, 05:12:34 PM »

Except for that one guy who was the closest America ever came to electing a socialist, who America loved so much they elected him 4 times.

Well he threw tens of thousands of Japanese civilians into camps so I guess he was the kind socialist that you’d admire.

Good post, Tim.

Thank you.

Anyways I am very happy to see Perez restoring the Democrats to being a center-center left Party on economics as it should be.

If you count opposing a minimum wage as center left.

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/10/democrats-appoint-anti-minimum-wage-advocate-to-fi.html
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Shadows
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« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2017, 10:18:06 PM »

Progressive party members were incensed to find that he had demoted a number of veteran delegates who’d backed either Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison in his bid for party chairman against Perez, or Sanders in 2016. (Ellison, who now serves as Perez’s deputy, was widely viewed as a proxy candidate for the more liberal, Sanders wing of the party.) Those ousted include Ray Buckley, James Zogby, Alice Germond, and Barbara Casbar Siperstein, NBC News reports. “I’m concerned about the optics, and I’m concerned about the impact,” Zogby said of the D.N.C. shake-up. “I want to heal the wound of 2016.”

To add insult to injury, Perez also tapped several individuals who have lobbying or corporate-interest backgrounds—a move that has sparked criticism in the past. The pack of new delegates includes Joanne Dowdell, a registered lobbyist for Fox News parent company News Corp; Harold Ickes, a veteran of the Clinton White House; and Manuel Ortiz, a lobbyist for CITGO Petroleum Corp and Puerto Rican interests. At least 10 additional Perez-tapped superdelegates have previously been registered as lobbyists, Bloomberg reports.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/10/tom-perez-dnc-shake-up

Oil Lobbyists, News Corp lobbyists, Wow while purging out progressives - So much for unity!

The DNC is such a mess that only the Treasurer & the Chair gets to see the budget. Not even the Executive members get to see it.  And they have Consultants who are DNC Members making huge money of DNC as members & no1 gets to see or even question about the spending.

Part of the money which is being spend is essentially money laundering & favors being handed out. No wonder people don't want to donate to these corrupt establishment. Atleast there should be more transparency. No-wonder the Democratic brand is so damaged.

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