George W. Bush’s unmistakable takedown of Trumpism — and Trump

[Blackacre]

Dubya = stopped clock, and you know what they say about stopped clocks.

They're functionally useless?

[pbrower2a]

Bush bullied gays to get better conservative turnout in 2004. He was the original king of the deplorables.

How do you know that he believes the same about same-sex marriage today as he did in 2004? Dubya has far more respect for decisions of the Supreme Court than does Donald Trump.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

This guy stole his first Presidential election, started a $2 trillion war that created ISIS,  ran  against SSM for his second Presidential election, and then completely botched Katrina. Why does anyone take him seriously here?

[Blackacre]

This guy stole his first Presidential election, started a $2 trillion war that created ISIS,  ran  against SSM for his second Presidential election, and then completely botched Katrina. Why does anyone take him seriously here?

I think I actually have an answer.

A lot of people here are 21 and younger. My age, to be more specific. I grew up with George W. Bush. As much as the rational part of me knows how atrocious his Presidency was, George W. Bush slots nicely into the nostalgic part of my memories, alongside Pokemon Ruby version and the Nintendo Gamecube. Combine that with his admittedly warm personality and you get a comforting figure in a very uncomfortable era. If you're younger, you might not even have that many memories of the Bush Presidency. And he does have that same warm personality that he used to lie us into war.

[darklordoftech]

This guy stole his first Presidential election, started a $2 trillion war that created ISIS,  ran  against SSM for his second Presidential election, and then completely botched Katrina. Why does anyone take him seriously here?

I think I actually have an answer.

A lot of people here are 21 and younger. My age, to be more specific. I grew up with George W. Bush. As much as the rational part of me knows how atrocious his Presidency was, George W. Bush slots nicely into the nostalgic part of my memories, alongside Pokemon Ruby version and the Nintendo Gamecube. Combine that with his admittedly warm personality and you get a comforting figure in a very uncomfortable era. If you're younger, you might not even have that many memories of the Bush Presidency. And he does have that same warm personality that he used to lie us into war.

I'm 22 and I remember how awful he was. When I was 5 years old, I was sad that he defeated Gore because I knew that he was bad news for the environment.

[Indy Texas]

He should have done this at least a year ago when it might have made a difference.

I'm not giving him any credit for saying things that are manifestly clear to every non-deplorable person in this country and have been for quite some time.

[dw93]

This guy stole his first Presidential election, started a $2 trillion war that created ISIS,  ran  against SSM for his second Presidential election, and then completely botched Katrina. Why does anyone take him seriously here?

I think I actually have an answer.

A lot of people here are 21 and younger. My age, to be more specific. I grew up with George W. Bush. As much as the rational part of me knows how atrocious his Presidency was, George W. Bush slots nicely into the nostalgic part of my memories, alongside Pokemon Ruby version and the Nintendo Gamecube. Combine that with his admittedly warm personality and you get a comforting figure in a very uncomfortable era. If you're younger, you might not even have that many memories of the Bush Presidency. And he does have that same warm personality that he used to lie us into war.

I'm 22 and I remember how awful he was. When I was 5 years old, I was sad that he defeated Gore because I knew that he was bad news for the environment.

I'm almost 24 and I remember having a bad feeling after the Supreme Court Declared Dubya the winner and I was proven right, he was atrocious. I remember the run up to the Iraq War in late 2002 and early 2003 and remember that it didn't make sense that we were invading Iraq when Iraq didn't attack us. I remember the instability in the Middle East and Oil Prices sky rocketing, and being through the roof by the fall of 2008 (I was learning to drive that  summer and let's just say I didn't get a lot of practice in because Gas Prices were too high). I remember how badly he botched Katrina and I really started to begin to understand economics and economic policy during the financial crisis in 2008 and remember fearing another depression. Granted, I have some fond memories from the 2000s as well (mostly from television and movies, and my family life was more stable), but George W. Bush doesn't tie into them at all.

[Sir Mohamed]

Say about W what you want, and there is plenty of stuff to criticze him, but he's actually not wrong. Please clap.

[Lechasseur]

Yes we do

Yep, I don't necessarily agree with him on everything (in hindsight, Iraq was a mistake) but ultimately he was a good guy who was president during difficult times and did what he thought he had to do, I'd take him over either of his successors in a heartbeat.

[mvd10]

Should be in the Hague


Also I've discovered there's a certain type of liberal that seems to honestly believe George W Bush is a better person, at a fundamental level, than Bernie Sanders.

As our PM? Yes please

Yes we do

Yep, I don't necessarily agree with him on everything (in hindsight, Iraq was a mistake) but ultimately he was a good guy who was president during difficult times and did what he thought he had to do, I'd take him over either of his successors in a heartbeat.

Yeah, he made a lot of mistakes in Iraq. It didn't even had to be that bad, the US just didn't handle it the right way. But that's very easy to say in hindsight as there was a lot to say for the decisions he made (which turned out to be wrong). I think he gets too much blame for his economic policy, in 2003 and 2005 he actually proposed tighter controls on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but the bill was filibustered by (who else ) the Democrats. That doesn't say he was an economic genius but "Bush did the recession" is just way too simple.

[MasterJedi]

He should have done this at least a year ago when it might have made a difference.

I'm not giving him any credit for saying things that are manifestly clear to every non-deplorable person in this country and have been for quite some time.

The Trumpian wing considers him a globalist traitor to the US, it would have done nothing.

[Lechasseur]

Should be in the Hague


Also I've discovered there's a certain type of liberal that seems to honestly believe George W Bush is a better person, at a fundamental level, than Bernie Sanders.

As our PM? Yes please

Yes we do

Yep, I don't necessarily agree with him on everything (in hindsight, Iraq was a mistake) but ultimately he was a good guy who was president during difficult times and did what he thought he had to do, I'd take him over either of his successors in a heartbeat.

Yeah, he made a lot of mistakes in Iraq. It didn't even had to be that bad, the US just didn't handle it the right way. But that's very easy to say in hindsight as there was a lot to say for the decisions he made (which turned out to be wrong). I think he gets too much blame for his economic policy, in 2003 and 2005 he actually proposed tighter controls on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but the bill was filibustered by (who else ) the Democrats. That doesn't say he was an economic genius but "Bush did the recession" is just way too simple.

This

[Fuzzy Bear]

George W. Bush and George H. W. Bush are two folks I was thinking of when I made the comment here that the anger that brought the rise of Trump was that ordinary Americans had been screwed over royally by folks with good manners and clean language.  In the case of the Bushes, folks who are, decidedly NOT racist, to boot. 

I could actually like the Bushes if they hadn't burdened us with needless Middle Eastern Wars that served purposes other than the interests of average Americans.  I can blame the repeal of Glass-Steagall on Hillary, but NAFTA was a joint endeavor; bi-partisanship at its worst.  The Bushes represent well-mannered Globalism that has been a living hell for the working class of America.

The Bushes are well-mannered.  Trump takes rudeness and crudeness to the next level, and, no, I don't endorse THAT aspect of Trump.  I would prefer my sons act like the Bushes socially; polite and respectful.  But I would not like them to grow up to become Globalists who are responsible for much of the inequality and the decline of sufficient employment for the working class of America.

[Skunk]

Yes we do

No we don't.

[dw93]

With regards to what Dubya said though, I agree with him. However, his party over the last 48 years caused a lot of the problems he was speaking about.

[The Dowager Mod]

This doesn't change the fact that without Bush there would be no president Trump.

[Fuzzy Bear]

George W. Bush and George H. W. Bush are two folks I was thinking of when I made the comment here that the anger that brought the rise of Trump was that ordinary Americans had been screwed over royally by folks with good manners and clean language.  In the case of the Bushes, folks who are, decidedly NOT racist, to boot. 

I could actually like the Bushes if they hadn't burdened us with needless Middle Eastern Wars that served purposes other than the interests of average Americans.  I can blame the repeal of Glass-Steagall on Hillary, but NAFTA was a joint endeavor; bi-partisanship at its worst.  The Bushes represent well-mannered Globalism that has been a living hell for the working class of America.

The Bushes are well-mannered.  Trump takes rudeness and crudeness to the next level, and, no, I don't endorse THAT aspect of Trump.  I would prefer my sons act like the Bushes socially; polite and respectful.  But I would not like them to grow up to become Globalists who are responsible for much of the inequality and the decline of sufficient employment for the working class of America.

I'll grant you Hillary didn't really give a damn about economic inequality, but do you honestly think Trump does after everything you've seen thus far? Besides taking a flame thrower to the TPP, what has he done to bridge that divide? How do you go from voting for Obama to being a full-blown Trump supporter while still supporting most of the things Obama speaks about?

Good question.  I ask myself this question at times.

To answer it:

(A)  Trump is less prone than Hillary to expand our foreign involvements.  North Korea is an unusual situation, the scope of which was unforeseen at the time of the 2016 election.  North Korea is very much a can we've kicked down the road to the point where we MAY have reached a limit.

(B)  I am a social conservative, and I loathe the degree of political correctness that has infiltrated our politics (and, indeed, our everyday discourse).  People have to watch every word, and the context of every word, lest they be called racist, sexiist, homophobic.  Indeed, people feel free to throw those bombs at others just because someone isn't voting for their candidate.  Trump, while overly rude and crude at times, has exposed the phoniness of the politically correct on both the right and left.  This talent Trump has for exposing the phoniness of others rises to the level of a gift.  And people LOVE IT! 

(C)  For the umpteenth time, I'll say this:  Hillary Clinton truly hates Evangelicals, and would use the Presidency to harass them.  Barack Obama, while a social liberal on abortion, SSM, etc, did not have that sort of hatred and vindictiveness toward Evangelicals.  Trump, while not a Godly example of what a Christian should be, has respect for Evangelicals and for the fact that they attempt to be Salt and Light to the World (even if he has no concept as to what that means).  Trump is a friend to Evangelicals.  Hillary is an enemy, and a wolf in sheep's clothing to boot.

I also believe that, in the end, Trump is going to "fix Obamacare".  That's his real plan.  He can't say that, of course; it would invoke wrath among Republicans, and Democrats would find it something to be wary of.  But Obamacare was a flawed program that (A) was going to require tinkering as it went along, and (B) was very much dependent on Medicaid Expansion for its success.  (We all know how Medicaid Expansion played out.)  Part of the phoniness Trump has revealed is the phoniness of some GOP opposition to Obamacare; they've been running their mouths forever, and pass repeal when they know it'll be vetoed, but not when they have a President almost DARING them to pass a repeal. 

[J. J.]

Yes we do

In terms of style, yes.

In terms of substance, there are a few things that that I prefer Bush's policies with, but, yes, Trump is looking better.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

(A)  Trump is less prone than Hillary to expand our foreign involvements.  North Korea is an unusual situation, the scope of which was unforeseen at the time of the 2016 election.  North Korea is very much a can we've kicked down the road to the point where we MAY have reached a limit.

Seriously, dude? Trump has been in office for nine months and has us the closest we've been to a nuclear war in 50 years. You can't spin that as one "unusual situation" with any serious credibility; it's, like, the one thing even resembling an international crisis that he's even faced and he's made it demonstrably worse. He is actively undermining his Secretary of State at every step to undermine diplomatic efforts with North Korea and elsewhere. The man asked in a meeting to increase our nuclear stockpile by a factor of 10. I have no idea how anybody can claim with a straight face that Trump is less likely to start a war than Clinton after the last year.

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Funny, when you remove that one word, suddenly it doesn't sound so bad...

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I'm going to ignore the laughable, unsubstantiable part about Clinton hating Evangelicals, and focus on this. Did you not see the joking Trump did about Pence wanting to hang the gays? Trump used the Evangelicals just like he has used most of his base, and is throwing them red meat because he thinks it will get them to keep cheering "lock her up" at his rallies, not because he respects them.

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Thank you for putting "fix" in scare quotes ahead of time, you saved me a little work. Trump has never shown any interest in the policy and has never demonstrated that he has any specific proposals beyond platitudes. He held a celebratory back-patting photo-op over the passage of a bill he later called "mean". The President goading his party into passing legislation that hasn't been vetted, discussed or thought out in any way is in no way virtuous. I'll give a (number of Republicans small enough to count on one hand) credit for NOT rubber-stamping the garbage repeal bills that have been proposed. Also what do you even mean that "we all know how the medicare expansion worked out"? That's by far the most popular part of the whole bill and has been much more successful at expanding care than the exchanges and is much more likely to survive the repeal process than the third leg of regulations the bill proposed.

[Mr. Smith]

Say about W what you want, and there is plenty of stuff to criticze him, but he's actually not wrong. Please clap.

No.

The self-awareness or should I say, lack thereof compels me to say otherwise.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Trump's comments about Pence wanting to hang gays is (A) not something anyone believes, and (B) another episode of Trump's lacking a filter.  

I believe Pence is like me on the issue.  He's a serious Christian.  The Bible instructs believers as far at is possible with us, to live peaceably with all men.  That includes folks living lifestyles that Scripture would not approve of.  I have friendly relations with all sorts of folks whose lifestyle I would not sign off on, and whose lifestyle certainly does not conform to Scripture.  But, like myself, I'm not going to pretend that God is OK with homosexual practices.  I'm not God's enforcer, but I do believe (as Mike Pence says he believes) that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God, and Scripture is pretty explicit on this subject.  And, when asked, I will share my conviction on this matter.  

This is an issue that has, truly, put Believers in choosing between popular mores and Scripture.  It's easy to blow off Scripture if you believe the Bible to be a book of fairy tales.  

[Sumner 1868]

Sad that nobody remembers he ran a racist campaign against McCain in the 2000 primaries.

This guy stole his first Presidential election, started a $2 trillion war that created ISIS,  ran  against SSM for his second Presidential election, and then completely botched Katrina. Why does anyone take him seriously here?

I think it's just we begun to see the full effect of high-speed 24-hour news cycle and social media's affect on society's collective memory. Nothing ever happened before Thursday as far as much of the public is concerned.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Sad that nobody remembers he ran a racist campaign against McCain in the 2000 primaries.

This guy stole his first Presidential election, started a $2 trillion war that created ISIS,  ran  against SSM for his second Presidential election, and then completely botched Katrina. Why does anyone take him seriously here?

I think it's just we begun to see the full effect of high-speed 24-hour news cycle and social media's affect on society's collective memory. Nothing ever happened before Thursday as far as much of the public is concerned.

Jesus, are we really in an age now where you can't say anything nice about someone you disagree with? You can agree with the contents of Bush's speech here and still think he was a terrible president.  You don't need to start off every sentence you mention him in with "Even though he started an unnecessary war and presided over the start of the worst financial crisis in modern history, ..."

It's pretty annoying that in every thread where a Republican speaks out against Trump, there are a couple posts of people complaining that the person is still evil in some way. Saying you're happy they're starting to call out one of the most dangerous politicians in U.S. history doesn't mean you're going to vote for them all of a sudden, or donate to their campaigns, or write to your congressperson and ask them to name a goddamn library after them. This rigid standard where you can't speak about somebody without disavowing them is honestly just a super masturbatory way to virtue-signal. Get off your high horse for, like, ten minutes.

[Sumner 1868]

Sad that nobody remembers he ran a racist campaign against McCain in the 2000 primaries.

This guy stole his first Presidential election, started a $2 trillion war that created ISIS,  ran  against SSM for his second Presidential election, and then completely botched Katrina. Why does anyone take him seriously here?

I think it's just we begun to see the full effect of high-speed 24-hour news cycle and social media's affect on society's collective memory. Nothing ever happened before Thursday as far as much of the public is concerned.

Jesus, are we really in an age now where you can't say anything nice about someone you disagree with? You can agree with the contents of Bush's speech here and still think he was a terrible president.  You don't need to start off every sentence you mention him in with "Even though he started an unnecessary war and presided over the start of the worst financial crisis in modern history, ..."

It's pretty annoying that in every thread where a Republican speaks out against Trump, there are a couple posts of people complaining that the person is still evil in some way. Saying you're happy they're starting to call out one of the most dangerous politicians in U.S. history doesn't mean you're going to vote for them all of a sudden, or donate to their campaigns, or write to your congressperson and ask them to name a goddamn library after them. This rigid standard where you can't speak about somebody without disavowing them is honestly just a super masturbatory way to virtue-signal. Get off your high horse for, like, ten minutes.

All you demonstrate is shallow presentism. In fifteen years I suspect you will speak positively of our current POTUS over whoever the Republican face of that moment will be.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Sad that nobody remembers he ran a racist campaign against McCain in the 2000 primaries.

This guy stole his first Presidential election, started a $2 trillion war that created ISIS,  ran  against SSM for his second Presidential election, and then completely botched Katrina. Why does anyone take him seriously here?

I think it's just we begun to see the full effect of high-speed 24-hour news cycle and social media's affect on society's collective memory. Nothing ever happened before Thursday as far as much of the public is concerned.

Jesus, are we really in an age now where you can't say anything nice about someone you disagree with? You can agree with the contents of Bush's speech here and still think he was a terrible president.  You don't need to start off every sentence you mention him in with "Even though he started an unnecessary war and presided over the start of the worst financial crisis in modern history, ..."

It's pretty annoying that in every thread where a Republican speaks out against Trump, there are a couple posts of people complaining that the person is still evil in some way. Saying you're happy they're starting to call out one of the most dangerous politicians in U.S. history doesn't mean you're going to vote for them all of a sudden, or donate to their campaigns, or write to your congressperson and ask them to name a goddamn library after them. This rigid standard where you can't speak about somebody without disavowing them is honestly just a super masturbatory way to virtue-signal. Get off your high horse for, like, ten minutes.

All you demonstrate is shallow presentism. In fifteen years I suspect you will speak positively of our current POTUS over whoever the Republican face of that moment will be.

in all fairness this is classic behaviour from partisans. I can guarantee you if HRC had won, right-wingers would be saying things like "IF ONLY OBAMA WAS STILL IN CHARGE UNLIKE FAR LEFT COMMIE CLINTON"