Are the Democrats failing or doing well as an opposition?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 09:26:12 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, Chancellor Tanterterg)
  Are the Democrats failing or doing well as an opposition?
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3
Author Topic: Are the Democrats failing or doing well as an opposition?  (Read 2596 times)
Maxwell
mah519
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 28,459
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -6.45, S: -6.96

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2017, 11:27:28 PM »

Mixed, leaning bad. Internal strife within the Democratic party is boiling over, the party structure is still very strongly resistant to any idea that their loss is because of a failed watered down agenda and political class rather than MUH RUSSIA, and too many congresscritters are too eager to find one bit of area to compromise with the Regressive Republican agenda. In addition, I believe Democrats have not done nearly enough to identify what they are for beyond impeaching Trump - they never made a big stink about the expiration of THE premier accomplishment of the Clinton era (CHIP), their new message of a "Better Deal" is downright uninspiring, and have bickered back and forth over whether to back a single payer healthcare message (which isn't a remotely far left idea as some right-wingers abroad will let us know)

That being said, I think Pelosi and Schumer, like Boehner and McConnell throughout the Obama years, have done a fairly solid job mobilizing the clearly in pain moderate wings of their party into shape and voting completely against big ticket items - namely the defeat of Trump's healthcare bill. And it looks like Schumer will do it again in the Senate, where the tax bill might be a tough sell considering the boy Rand Paul already seems like he's going to oppose and Bob Corker has notably complaining about the potential deficits that may arise from such a tax bill.

The problem is both parties are stuck thinking they are a natural governing (Democrats) and natural opposition (Republican) parties.
Logged
pbrower2a
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 26,843
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2017, 01:26:47 AM »

Democrats are trying to establish an alternative agenda while Republicans are almost at war with each other. Democrats wisely avoid choosing sides in that struggle.




Logged
Celebi
Rookie
**
Posts: 79
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2017, 04:54:20 AM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win. Vague slogans like "better deal" are completely useless. Give people some reason to vote for you.
Logged
IceSpear
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,841
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -6.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2017, 05:57:59 AM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...
Logged
Celebi
Rookie
**
Posts: 79
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2017, 06:19:24 AM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,076
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2017, 06:27:22 AM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

Wasn't working for the GOP at this point either.

Wasn't until Scott Brown that there was any credibility, and even then that was kinda a perfect storm.

You certainly didn't see results like Rob Quist or Thompson or archie parnell, or yes, Jon Ossoff back then.

it's only "not working" if the midterms themselves fail.
Logged
Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,503
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2017, 07:25:58 AM »

A lot of Democratic "victories" in the age of Trump have occurred more because of reality than because of their action.  The blocking of Obamacare Repeal is the best example.  The Republicans talked unity on the issue when they were 100% certain that Obama would veto any repeal measure, but there were always a few Republicans in the Senate that knew that their constituents would not approve of repeal; enough of them were benefiting and would be grossly inconvenienced if it were repealed.  This wasn't so much something the Democrats did as something reality, itself did. 

You can say that there was more unity around saving the AHCA amongst Democrats then there had been, and you would be correct.  Since every Democrat in the Senate who was there in 2009 voted for AHCA, it would be lame if one changed their mind.  But they didn't; even Manchin (the most likely switcher) Heitkamp, and McCaskill stood firm. 

The Democrats' smoothest move was making the deal with Trump to extend the debt ceiling.  This was a real victory; the Freedom Caucus loonbags would have no problem voting to starve out the government to get there way, even with a Republican President.  (I think Trump, in his heart of heats, knows that the Freedom Caucus folks aren't his friends, but he knows that they're Republicans and the same folks that elected him elected them.)   They would be in a better position if they can continue to make deals with Trump on areas where they agree.  This, however, doesn't seem to be the inclination of most Democrats; they would rather rant than accomplish. 

This is the real problem with "The Resistance"; they are preoccupied with ranting over issues folks that NEED the Democratic Party to assert itself don't care about.  Gotcha! issues like Russia, boorish behavior decades ago, etc, that folks repeatedly see as ending up as tempests in teapots.  This will be the reason Democrats disappoint in the midterms.
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,076
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2017, 01:26:19 PM »

A lot of Democratic "victories" in the age of Trump have occurred more because of reality than because of their action.  The blocking of Obamacare Repeal is the best example.  The Republicans talked unity on the issue when they were 100% certain that Obama would veto any repeal measure, but there were always a few Republicans in the Senate that knew that their constituents would not approve of repeal; enough of them were benefiting and would be grossly inconvenienced if it were repealed.  This wasn't so much something the Democrats did as something reality, itself did. 

You can say that there was more unity around saving the AHCA amongst Democrats then there had been, and you would be correct.  Since every Democrat in the Senate who was there in 2009 voted for AHCA, it would be lame if one changed their mind.  But they didn't; even Manchin (the most likely switcher) Heitkamp, and McCaskill stood firm. 

The Democrats' smoothest move was making the deal with Trump to extend the debt ceiling.  This was a real victory; the Freedom Caucus loonbags would have no problem voting to starve out the government to get there way, even with a Republican President.  (I think Trump, in his heart of heats, knows that the Freedom Caucus folks aren't his friends, but he knows that they're Republicans and the same folks that elected him elected them.)   They would be in a better position if they can continue to make deals with Trump on areas where they agree.  This, however, doesn't seem to be the inclination of most Democrats; they would rather rant than accomplish. 

This is the real problem with "The Resistance"; they are preoccupied with ranting over issues folks that NEED the Democratic Party to assert itself don't care about.  Gotcha! issues like Russia, boorish behavior decades ago, etc, that folks repeatedly see as ending up as tempests in teapots.  This will be the reason Democrats disappoint in the midterms.

This was said in 2009 with the GOP when they were whining about The War on Christmas and birtherism as "gotchas".

And yet 2010 was a landslide.
Logged
Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
Fuzzy Bear
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 25,503
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2017, 02:08:39 PM »

A lot of Democratic "victories" in the age of Trump have occurred more because of reality than because of their action.  The blocking of Obamacare Repeal is the best example.  The Republicans talked unity on the issue when they were 100% certain that Obama would veto any repeal measure, but there were always a few Republicans in the Senate that knew that their constituents would not approve of repeal; enough of them were benefiting and would be grossly inconvenienced if it were repealed.  This wasn't so much something the Democrats did as something reality, itself did. 

You can say that there was more unity around saving the AHCA amongst Democrats then there had been, and you would be correct.  Since every Democrat in the Senate who was there in 2009 voted for AHCA, it would be lame if one changed their mind.  But they didn't; even Manchin (the most likely switcher) Heitkamp, and McCaskill stood firm. 

The Democrats' smoothest move was making the deal with Trump to extend the debt ceiling.  This was a real victory; the Freedom Caucus loonbags would have no problem voting to starve out the government to get there way, even with a Republican President.  (I think Trump, in his heart of heats, knows that the Freedom Caucus folks aren't his friends, but he knows that they're Republicans and the same folks that elected him elected them.)   They would be in a better position if they can continue to make deals with Trump on areas where they agree.  This, however, doesn't seem to be the inclination of most Democrats; they would rather rant than accomplish. 

This is the real problem with "The Resistance"; they are preoccupied with ranting over issues folks that NEED the Democratic Party to assert itself don't care about.  Gotcha! issues like Russia, boorish behavior decades ago, etc, that folks repeatedly see as ending up as tempests in teapots.  This will be the reason Democrats disappoint in the midterms.

This was said in 2009 with the GOP when they were whining about The War on Christmas and birtherism as "gotchas".

And yet 2010 was a landslide.

The 2010 landslide occurred because of fear and loathing over Obamacare.

There's something to the idea that folks approved ACHA before reading it.  Its advocates were unable to dispel the fears about Death Panels and skyrocketing rates, and "the government getting between you and your doctor", not being able to keep your current plan (true in some cases), not being able to keep your doctor (an overrated benefit; how many folks here know the name of the last doctor they saw?). 

The minute you go on defense in politics, you're finished.  The Democrats went on defense, or ran away from Obamacare.  They rammed through an historic healthcare bill, and then some wanted to distance themselves from it, or couldn't defend the "Death Panels" drivel. 
Logged
Mr. Smith
MormDem
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 33,076
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2017, 02:22:14 PM »

A lot of Democratic "victories" in the age of Trump have occurred more because of reality than because of their action.  The blocking of Obamacare Repeal is the best example.  The Republicans talked unity on the issue when they were 100% certain that Obama would veto any repeal measure, but there were always a few Republicans in the Senate that knew that their constituents would not approve of repeal; enough of them were benefiting and would be grossly inconvenienced if it were repealed.  This wasn't so much something the Democrats did as something reality, itself did. 

You can say that there was more unity around saving the AHCA amongst Democrats then there had been, and you would be correct.  Since every Democrat in the Senate who was there in 2009 voted for AHCA, it would be lame if one changed their mind.  But they didn't; even Manchin (the most likely switcher) Heitkamp, and McCaskill stood firm. 

The Democrats' smoothest move was making the deal with Trump to extend the debt ceiling.  This was a real victory; the Freedom Caucus loonbags would have no problem voting to starve out the government to get there way, even with a Republican President.  (I think Trump, in his heart of heats, knows that the Freedom Caucus folks aren't his friends, but he knows that they're Republicans and the same folks that elected him elected them.)   They would be in a better position if they can continue to make deals with Trump on areas where they agree.  This, however, doesn't seem to be the inclination of most Democrats; they would rather rant than accomplish. 

This is the real problem with "The Resistance"; they are preoccupied with ranting over issues folks that NEED the Democratic Party to assert itself don't care about.  Gotcha! issues like Russia, boorish behavior decades ago, etc, that folks repeatedly see as ending up as tempests in teapots.  This will be the reason Democrats disappoint in the midterms.

This was said in 2009 with the GOP when they were whining about The War on Christmas and birtherism as "gotchas".

And yet 2010 was a landslide.

The 2010 landslide occurred because of fear and loathing over Obamacare.

There's something to the idea that folks approved ACHA before reading it.  Its advocates were unable to dispel the fears about Death Panels and skyrocketing rates, and "the government getting between you and your doctor", not being able to keep your current plan (true in some cases), not being able to keep your doctor (an overrated benefit; how many folks here know the name of the last doctor they saw?). 

The minute you go on defense in politics, you're finished.  The Democrats went on defense, or ran away from Obamacare.  They rammed through an historic healthcare bill, and then some wanted to distance themselves from it, or couldn't defend the "Death Panels" drivel. 

And none of that happened until 2010.

Something of the sort will happen between now and 2018 midterms to capitalize on. Maybe even Trumpcare's failures again will do it.

The question is whether it is capitalized on to the fullest or whether the opportunity is squandered.
Logged
IceSpear
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,841
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -6.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2017, 04:15:18 PM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.
Logged
Virginiá
Virginia
Administratrix
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,856
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2017, 04:20:58 PM »

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

Even in a wave election, there are leagues of seats that the losing party still holds without much of a problem. The Congressional seats that were up are not really what would be considered top targets for Democrats, even in a wave. GA-6 maybe, but just barely. The other districts were pretty heavily Republican.

And if you want to go by legislative special elections, then Democrats seem primed for large gains next year. Averaging their performance in all these specials, there seems to be a large swing in favor of Democrats. Doesn't seem reasonable to ignore that just because they didn't pull rabbits out of hats in very conservative CDs.
Logged
publicunofficial
angryGreatness
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,010
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2017, 04:23:03 PM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.

It's almost as if Democrats and Republicans have different bases of support with different needs and ideals and just coping their strategy will never work.

But No, keep getting mad at voters for not voting for your do-nothing group of whores.
Logged
IceSpear
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,841
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -6.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2017, 04:26:36 PM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.

It's almost as if Democrats and Republicans have different bases of support with different needs and ideals and just coping their strategy will never work.

But No, keep getting mad at voters for not voting for your do-nothing group of whores.

Will do! Americans deserve to be berated. Half the country doesn't even vote, and of the half that does plenty are extremely ignorant and fall for propaganda/fake news that they think must be true because they saw it on Facebook.
Logged
publicunofficial
angryGreatness
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,010
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2017, 04:29:42 PM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.

It's almost as if Democrats and Republicans have different bases of support with different needs and ideals and just coping their strategy will never work.

But No, keep getting mad at voters for not voting for your do-nothing group of whores.

Will do! Americans deserve to be berated. Half the country doesn't even vote, and of the half that does plenty are extremely ignorant and fall for propaganda/fake news that they think must be true because they saw it on Facebook.

This country is a howling, debt-ridden, drug-addicted, dying snake-pit that puts every citizen through a long march to hell until they mercifully die, and both parties got us here. It's a miracle any of us are able to leave the house without succumbing to despair and killing ourselves, so 50% still holding hope that their vote matters and can maybe make things better is pretty good.
Logged
IceSpear
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,841
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -6.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2017, 04:34:00 PM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.

It's almost as if Democrats and Republicans have different bases of support with different needs and ideals and just coping their strategy will never work.

But No, keep getting mad at voters for not voting for your do-nothing group of whores.

Will do! Americans deserve to be berated. Half the country doesn't even vote, and of the half that does plenty are extremely ignorant and fall for propaganda/fake news that they think must be true because they saw it on Facebook.

This country is a howling, debt-ridden, drug-addicted, dying snake-pit that puts every citizen through a long march to hell until they mercifully die, and both parties got us here. It's a miracle any of us are able to leave the house without succumbing to despair and killing ourselves, so 50% still holding hope that their vote matters and can maybe make things better is pretty good.

Well, that escalated quickly....lol. Point taken.
Logged
Ban my account ffs!
snowguy716
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 22,632
Austria


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2017, 04:35:39 PM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.

It's almost as if Democrats and Republicans have different bases of support with different needs and ideals and just coping their strategy will never work.

But No, keep getting mad at voters for not voting for your do-nothing group of whores.

Will do! Americans deserve to be berated. Half the country doesn't even vote, and of the half that does plenty are extremely ignorant and fall for propaganda/fake news that they think must be true because they saw it on Facebook.

This country is a howling, debt-ridden, drug-addicted, dying snake-pit that puts every citizen through a long march to hell until they mercifully die, and both parties got us here. It's a miracle any of us are able to leave the house without succumbing to despair and killing ourselves, so 50% still holding hope that their vote matters and can maybe make things better is pretty good.
Go outside and get some fresh air.  And turn off the electronics.  They're stressing you out too much.
Logged
publicunofficial
angryGreatness
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,010
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2017, 05:02:39 PM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.

It's almost as if Democrats and Republicans have different bases of support with different needs and ideals and just coping their strategy will never work.

But No, keep getting mad at voters for not voting for your do-nothing group of whores.

Will do! Americans deserve to be berated. Half the country doesn't even vote, and of the half that does plenty are extremely ignorant and fall for propaganda/fake news that they think must be true because they saw it on Facebook.

This country is a howling, debt-ridden, drug-addicted, dying snake-pit that puts every citizen through a long march to hell until they mercifully die, and both parties got us here. It's a miracle any of us are able to leave the house without succumbing to despair and killing ourselves, so 50% still holding hope that their vote matters and can maybe make things better is pretty good.
Go outside and get some fresh air.  And turn off the electronics.  They're stressing you out too much.

I feel like too many people aren't nearly stressed enough. Namely smug condescending dips**ts like IceSpear
Logged
IceSpear
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,841
United States


Political Matrix
E: -6.19, S: -6.43

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2017, 12:50:18 AM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.

It's almost as if Democrats and Republicans have different bases of support with different needs and ideals and just coping their strategy will never work.

But No, keep getting mad at voters for not voting for your do-nothing group of whores.

Will do! Americans deserve to be berated. Half the country doesn't even vote, and of the half that does plenty are extremely ignorant and fall for propaganda/fake news that they think must be true because they saw it on Facebook.

This country is a howling, debt-ridden, drug-addicted, dying snake-pit that puts every citizen through a long march to hell until they mercifully die, and both parties got us here. It's a miracle any of us are able to leave the house without succumbing to despair and killing ourselves, so 50% still holding hope that their vote matters and can maybe make things better is pretty good.
Go outside and get some fresh air.  And turn off the electronics.  They're stressing you out too much.

I feel like too many people aren't nearly stressed enough. Namely smug condescending dips**ts like IceSpear

Jeez, I don't remember you being so angry and dark.

Honestly, you shouldn't stress yourself out about it too much. There's only so much one person can do.
Logged
Frodo
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,511
United States


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2017, 07:56:44 PM »
« Edited: October 24, 2017, 07:59:00 PM by Frodo »

No. The only reason they look like a strong opposition is because Trump and the current GOP congressional leadership are incompetent.

I'd have to agree, at least in part. Republicans are a mess, and it's stalling out their agenda bigly. And as for opposition on the left, that's just the thing. Activist energy is helping to fuel the opposition, which is separate from Congressional Democrats. The party itself is still making bumbling mistakes, such as that thing about Ellison supporters.

But this doesn't mean I think Democrats won't still do well next year. I think Republicans were probably destined to make huge gains in 2010 too, simply due to Democratic missteps in power and a slow economic recovery. Same thing seems to be happening now. An incompetent Congressional GOP and Trump intent on burning his party at the stake is helping to fuel a large backlash against the Republican Party.

In the end, I could see Democrats making substantial gains next year and at that point you'll probably see a shift in opinion of how the party is doing. It's easy to dump on them year after year when they keep losing. Not so easy if they actually start winning.

I think there is one plausible overarching message that Democrats can take to voters next year:

If you are looking for someone to keep Trump accountable and in check, vote Democrat.  If you're not, vote Republican.  

That should be enough.  It's simple and easy to understand.  
Logged
Virginiá
Virginia
Administratrix
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,856
Ukraine


Political Matrix
E: -6.97, S: -5.91

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2017, 08:02:24 PM »

If you are looking for someone to keep Trump accountable and in check, vote Democrat.  If you're not, vote Republican.  

That should be enough.  It's simple and easy to understand.  

That is probably one of the best messages you can use whenever the incumbent president is unpopular. Its effectiveness is increased when the president's party is looking crooked, which Trump's administration is making too easy.

Throw in some deeply unpopular policies being pushed by the party in power (gutting ObamaCare, tax cuts for the wealthy) and you have a winning strategy.
Logged
Yank2133
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,387


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2017, 08:08:16 PM »

Democrats need to offer more than "we're against everything Trump does" if they want to win.

That's funny, because that strategy worked perfectly for the Republicans in 2010 if you just replace "Trump" with "Obama." And Obama had a much stronger mandate than Trump to begin with, soooo...

But according to by-election results it's not working for Democrats.

So then why do Americans have a double standard is the real question.

It's almost as if Democrats and Republicans have different bases of support with different needs and ideals and just coping their strategy will never work.

But No, keep getting mad at voters for not voting for your do-nothing group of whores.

They didn't run on anything, but be against Bush in 2006 and look how that turned out. Mid-terms are about the party in power and has always been.

Now Democrats can't just be against Trump in 2020 since presidential elections are different.
Logged
○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└
jfern
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 53,613


Political Matrix
E: -7.38, S: -8.36

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2017, 08:23:40 PM »

No. The only reason they look like a strong opposition is because Trump and the current GOP congressional leadership are incompetent.

I'd have to agree, at least in part. Republicans are a mess, and it's stalling out their agenda bigly. And as for opposition on the left, that's just the thing. Activist energy is helping to fuel the opposition, which is separate from Congressional Democrats. The party itself is still making bumbling mistakes, such as that thing about Ellison supporters.

But this doesn't mean I think Democrats won't still do well next year. I think Republicans were probably destined to make huge gains in 2010 too, simply due to Democratic missteps in power and a slow economic recovery. Same thing seems to be happening now. An incompetent Congressional GOP and Trump intent on burning his party at the stake is helping to fuel a large backlash against the Republican Party.

In the end, I could see Democrats making substantial gains next year and at that point you'll probably see a shift in opinion of how the party is doing. It's easy to dump on them year after year when they keep losing. Not so easy if they actually start winning.

I think there is one plausible overarching message that Democrats can take to voters next year:

If you are looking for someone to keep Trump accountable and in check, vote Democrat.  If you're not, vote Republican.  

That should be enough.  It's simple and easy to understand.  

Democrats have to stand for something other than "We're against Trump except when we vote with him for military increases or the like".
Logged
Hindsight was 2020
Hindsight is 2020
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,207
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2017, 08:32:35 PM »

No. The only reason they look like a strong opposition is because Trump and the current GOP congressional leadership are incompetent.

I'd have to agree, at least in part. Republicans are a mess, and it's stalling out their agenda bigly. And as for opposition on the left, that's just the thing. Activist energy is helping to fuel the opposition, which is separate from Congressional Democrats. The party itself is still making bumbling mistakes, such as that thing about Ellison supporters.

But this doesn't mean I think Democrats won't still do well next year. I think Republicans were probably destined to make huge gains in 2010 too, simply due to Democratic missteps in power and a slow economic recovery. Same thing seems to be happening now. An incompetent Congressional GOP and Trump intent on burning his party at the stake is helping to fuel a large backlash against the Republican Party.

In the end, I could see Democrats making substantial gains next year and at that point you'll probably see a shift in opinion of how the party is doing. It's easy to dump on them year after year when they keep losing. Not so easy if they actually start winning.

I think there is one plausible overarching message that Democrats can take to voters next year:

If you are looking for someone to keep Trump accountable and in check, vote Democrat.  If you're not, vote Republican.  

That should be enough.  It's simple and easy to understand.  

Democrats have to stand for something other than "We're against Trump except when we vote with him for military increases or the like".
Sure in 2020 but midterms have always been about "f**k the party in power"
Logged
Dr. MB
MB
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,813
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2017, 09:49:16 PM »

In the middle.

On one hand, they can succeed just by dissatisfaction with Trump and Congress's inability to get anything done even with a GOP House, Senate, and President. On the other hand, "stop Trump" is one of the only messages all Democrats share, there's still competition between former HRC supporters and former Bernie supporters, many want Pelosi out, but that's still not as bad as the Republican divisions.

I'd much rather have a Democratic Party that places more emphasis on economic issues than social issues, like healthcare and college tuition. Actually, it would be much better if the Democrats moved more into the green section and the Republicans more into the yellow section of the political compass.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.087 seconds with 12 queries.