Virginia Middle Schoolers caught simulating racist sex acts on fellow students

[NewYorkExpress]

(Obviously they students should be expelled)

I'm predicting that the perpetrators are only going to get 3 days of in-school suspension.

Yeah, Middle School students aren't usually going to be expelled unless they say...murder someone.

Something about giving everyone the right to an education.

Um, kids can be expelled from a school and still have public education.

Kids have been expelled for getting into fistfights, spitting at the teacher, bringing a butterknife to school, for drawing a cartoon where Spider-Man beats up bad guys with guns, etc.

They forcibly dry-humped these kids, while also being racist. If ever there's a time to expel, this is it.

I agree that they should be expelled, but what I said is exactly the defense the school district will use for why they won't expel them.

The worst that will happen is a couple of months suspension, and the students involved might be held back a year as a result IMO, which is pretty damaging too.

[Fuzzy Bear]

To blame Trump for this is as ridiculous as blaming Obama for increased attacks on police.

Tell you what - when President Moron stops taking credit for the stock market, the employment rate, the defeat of ISIS, and the sun rising in the morning, then I'll stop blaming him for stuff like this until then, it's his damned fault. (And if he stops the day after the stock market tanks, that doesn't count.)

So you agree that Obama was responsible for the increase on attacks on police?  While I disagree with you, it's your right to express such a conclusion.

Maybe this is Bill Clinton's fault.

Or maybe, just maybe, such episodes of crude sexual acting-out are the result of the decline of Christian moral standards being operative in communities.  Yes, I know that this is something you're all in favor of, and we mustn't stigmatize anything (other than racism and sexism, of course). 

But the stigmatization of pre-marital and extramarital sex did, very much, serve as a deterrant to behaviors such as this.  These young folks, MIDDLE SCHOOLERS (not even High Schoolers) carrying on in this manner, ought to be shocking, but I would hardly blame Donald Trump for the fact that these kids felt insufficient inhibition to keep them from doing this.

As for the italicized part, if all of that happened, I'm certain you wouldn't keep your word.

[Shadows]

To blame Trump for this is as ridiculous as blaming Obama for increased attacks on police.

Tell you what - when President Moron stops taking credit for the stock market, the employment rate, the defeat of ISIS, and the sun rising in the morning, then I'll stop blaming him for stuff like this until then, it's his damned fault. (And if he stops the day after the stock market tanks, that doesn't count.)

So you agree that Obama was responsible for the increase on attacks on police?  While I disagree with you, it's your right to express such a conclusion.

Maybe this is Bill Clinton's fault.

Or maybe, just maybe, such episodes of crude sexual acting-out are the result of the decline of Christian moral standards being operative in communities.  Yes, I know that this is something you're all in favor of, and we mustn't stigmatize anything (other than racism and sexism, of course). 

But the stigmatization of pre-marital and extramarital sex did, very much, serve as a deterrant to behaviors such as this.  These young folks, MIDDLE SCHOOLERS (not even High Schoolers) carrying on in this manner, ought to be shocking, but I would hardly blame Donald Trump for the fact that these kids felt insufficient inhibition to keep them from doing this.

As for the italicized part, if all of that happened, I'm certain you wouldn't keep your word.

When there was so much religion & Christian standards, people have slaves, raped those slaves, killed people brutality. Islam & ISIS have a problem today but Christianity's history is filled with killings, rapes & wars of conquest. So, the idea if people are religious & are stupid enough to believe in some non-nonsensical sky god, they will live moral good lives, is wishful fantasy at best.

[HAnnA MArin County]

Well I think we can easily guess whom the parents of these little deplorables voted for.

[Fuzzy Bear]

To blame Trump for this is as ridiculous as blaming Obama for increased attacks on police.

Tell you what - when President Moron stops taking credit for the stock market, the employment rate, the defeat of ISIS, and the sun rising in the morning, then I'll stop blaming him for stuff like this until then, it's his damned fault. (And if he stops the day after the stock market tanks, that doesn't count.)

So you agree that Obama was responsible for the increase on attacks on police?  While I disagree with you, it's your right to express such a conclusion.

Maybe this is Bill Clinton's fault.

Or maybe, just maybe, such episodes of crude sexual acting-out are the result of the decline of Christian moral standards being operative in communities.  Yes, I know that this is something you're all in favor of, and we mustn't stigmatize anything (other than racism and sexism, of course). 

But the stigmatization of pre-marital and extramarital sex did, very much, serve as a deterrant to behaviors such as this.  These young folks, MIDDLE SCHOOLERS (not even High Schoolers) carrying on in this manner, ought to be shocking, but I would hardly blame Donald Trump for the fact that these kids felt insufficient inhibition to keep them from doing this.

As for the italicized part, if all of that happened, I'm certain you wouldn't keep your word.

When there was so much religion & Christian standards, people have slaves, raped those slaves, killed people brutality. Islam & ISIS have a problem today but Christianity's history is filled with killings, rapes & wars of conquest. So, the idea if people are religious & are stupid enough to believe in some non-nonsensical sky god, they will live moral good lives, is wishful fantasy at best.

I would argue (not that you're open-minded) that these wars have to do with disobedience to Biblical commands, not adherence to them.  But, yes, the fear of God IS the beginning of all wisdom.  The idea that God really is aware of folks' actions, and will sanction those actions is, very much, a constraining influence.  One who truly believes that God is who He says he is, and that the Bible really is His Word, is constrained by knowledge of His Word  This does not mean that such a person will never sin, but it does mean that such a person will be under conviction when they do sin.  And it also means that such a person is less likely to act on their more ungodly thoughts because of the knowledge of who God is, and the conviction disobedience to His Word brings.

In a more Christian-ized society, such as the one I grew up in (the 1960s), Judeo-Christian morals were the standard of conduct for all; even unbelievers and skeptics recognized the last 5 commandments of the Ten Commandments as public morality.  (The "thou shalt nots".)  As folks were more churched back then, there were social stigmas attached to behaviors such as the ones in that video.  Yes, even the racism would be frowned upon in most Christian settings.  The stigmas seemed cruel, but they kept teenagers, by and large, from being sexually active and obscene.  There were fewer teenage pregnancies, and they weren't celebrated; being a "Teem Mom" wasn't cause for celebration and reality TV.

Today, we have a coarsened society that is sexually overstimulated.  Donald Trump did not create this (although he's a bit of a product of it, I grant you).  These kids at this middle school are at an age where they are a combination of curious, stimulated, and uninhibited, and society has removed many of the external inhibitions on their behavior.  Not only did they do what they did, they made a video to boot.  (I haven't viewed the video; I'll take the word of folks describing it.)  No one here had enough shame, or enough fear, to not go through with this.

I'll allow law enforcement to decide if the incident merits criminal charges.  I would point out, however, that these are MIDDLE SCHOOLERS.  The school's website indicates the school is for 6th, 7th, and 8th graders.  That's kids ages 11-14, normally.  There are some folks here that wish to make these kids suffer long-term, but who, at the same time, are bent out of shape over Hillary Clinton (THE Hillary Clinton) buying into the description of young black teenage criminals as "super-predators" back in the 1990s.  Were we wrong about that judgment?  Were we a bit harsh and uncaring as to whose lives we threw away (albeit, in the name of public safety)?  I'm not sure what the proper course of action with these kids is, but some acknowledgment of there age is appropriate.  

[AtorBoltox]

If you’re against crude sexual ‘acting out’ and extramarital sex why did you vote for Trump? You’re so full of sh**t it’s laughable

[Andrew]

Not acting horrible because you're afraid of what God will do to you if you do act horrible isn't morality.  It's covering your ass.

True morality has nothing to do with fear of consequences.

[RFayette]

Not acting horrible because you're afraid of what God will do to you if you do act horrible isn't morality.  It's covering your ass.

True morality has nothing to do with fear of consequences.

What is wrong with acting on an incentive?  If a God exists, wouldn't you want him to punish evil people and reward good ones?  And if fear of divine wrath produces repentance, why is that a bad thing?

[Kamala]

Not acting horrible because you're afraid of what God will do to you if you do act horrible isn't morality.  It's covering your ass.

True morality has nothing to do with fear of consequences.

What is wrong with acting on an incentive?  If a God exists, wouldn't you want him to punish evil people and reward good ones?  And if fear of divine wrath produces repentance, why is that a bad thing?

If the only reason you don't murder people is your fear of being sent to jail/death row, that's not a good thing.

On the other hand, if fear of divine wrath does make people do good things/not do bad things, I'd say that's a pretty good thing.

[RFayette]

Not acting horrible because you're afraid of what God will do to you if you do act horrible isn't morality.  It's covering your ass.

True morality has nothing to do with fear of consequences.

What is wrong with acting on an incentive?  If a God exists, wouldn't you want him to punish evil people and reward good ones?  And if fear of divine wrath produces repentance, why is that a bad thing?

If the only reason you don't murder people is your fear of being sent to jail/death row, that's not a good thing.

On the other hand, if fear of divine wrath does make people do good things/not do bad things, I'd say that's a pretty good thing.

Oh, I certainly agree that someone would have to be a sociopath if the only reason they don't murder someone is to avoid divine wrath.  Of course, the fact that punishment deters even sociopaths is a very good thing, even if they aren't moral.

My point was that most moral choices we have are less stark but are still very relevant:  should I donate a portion of what I earn to charity to help those less fortunate?  Should I cheat on that test or not?  It's very easy to have a utilitarian argument that our choices in these areas impact the aggregate very minimally, but the sum of those choices over many people makes a big difference in the type of society we live in.  I contend that a morality influenced by a fear of God to an extent will cause people to make better decisions, and I don't think it's a bad thing that people are influenced by their self-interest in this.

[RFayette]

To extend to what Fuzzy Bear said, I think that irrespective of whether or not you think Christianity is true, it is indisputable that  it prescribes rigorous moral guidelines that go far beyond what we intuitively think of as directly harmful.  For instance, while just about everyone would agree adultery is morally wrong, the Bible also prohibits sex outside of marriage and pornography, which Jesus would consider adultery in the heart.   I am going to be honest - there are times I have questioned whether these guidelines are fair or reasonable.  And assuming the God of the Bible is real, I can't speculate on why exactly his commandments are what they are, but I think that part of it pertains to setting rigorous boundaries to prevent one from committing damage.  A loose sexual atmosphere may well increase infidelity and create an atmosphere in which abusive behavior is tolerated because the cultural norms have changed.  One can contend that an ethic of consent is enough to stop this from occurring, but as we now know, determining consent can be a complicated issue , especially when alcohol is involved - this isn't to let the abuser off the hook by any means or to blame the victim, only to say that a loose sexual culture make problems more likely to occur.