Citizens HQ - Provisional Convention coming

[Leinad]

I am honestly still confused as to what you guys are trying to do. If we (i.e. Federalists) were like RL Republicans I guess it would make sense, but we're kind of the big-tent moderate/center-right party already. Yes we have some conservative/libertarian "core principles" but it's not too crazy--basically believe in some level of liberty (which is open to interpretation) and conserve the institutions that make a constitutional republic functional. Surely you guys aren't trying to make an "alternative" to that?

[wxtransit]

I am honestly still confused as to what you guys are trying to do. If we (i.e. Federalists) were like RL Republicans I guess it would make sense, but we're kind of the big-tent moderate/center-right party already. Yes we have some conservative/libertarian "core principles" but it's not too crazy--basically believe in some level of liberty (which is open to interpretation) and conserve the institutions that make a constitutional republic functional. Surely you guys aren't trying to make an "alternative" to that?

The goal of the Citizens Party is to provide an alternative to both main parties, from the farthest left to the farthest right. From what I've seen, at least, the Feds are only on the right side of the spectrum. The Citizens Party covers all people who will unite for electoral reform and an alternative, no matter if you're on the right, center, or left. We are making an alternative to the two-party system, and greater choice for Atlasians when they enter the polling booth.

This is also one of the goals DFL and I hope to accomplish with a rebrand -- to greater define and clarify what Citizens stands for.

[fhtagn]

Not trying to argue or anything, just wanted to point out that the Federalists are not only on the right wing of the spectrum. We have plenty of left wingers (past and present) in the party and holding office, such as LouisvilleThunder, ReaganClinton, politicalmasta, 1184AZ, and many more. We do not solely look at the major parties as "right wing" vs "left wing", but have as goal of making the party, and Atlasia more welcoming to all who want to make it better.

[DFL]

Citizen’s is not just a big-tent party. We are also not a mere copy of the Federalist Party. Above posing as a big-tent party, we stand for choice and reform. Firstly, we don’t support a one party state and see it as harmful to the nature of our democracy. We believe that when none of the parties provide a clear enough choice for Atlasians, the people deserve new options. We also believe in building a coalition whose foundation is rooted in progress and reform, not status quo.

With that in mind, I’m curious as to why you have chosen now as the time to attack our party. You easily could have voiced your concerns when the party founded.

Regardless, don’t try to tell us what we are.

[wxtransit]

Citizen’s is not just a big-tent party. We are also not a mere copy of the Federalist Party. Above posing as a big-tent party, we stand for choice and reform. Firstly, we don’t support a one party state and see it as harmful to the nature of our democracy. We believe that when none of the parties provide a clear enough choice for Atlasians, the people deserve new options. We also believe in building a coalition whose foundation is rooted in progress and reform, not status quo.

With that in mind, I’m curious as to why you have chosen now as the time to attack our party. You easily could have voiced your concerns when the party founded.

Regardless, don’t try to tell us what we are.

Bingo. Not only are we ideologically diverse, but we also stand for reform in our political system. We stand for greater choices for Atlasians. When one party dominates the political scene, there needs to be checks and balances. And the Citizens Party stands for that. We are an alliance of the reformers and the revolutionaries. We provide an alternative outside of the two-party system.

[fhtagn]

So when you say you stand for "choice and reform", can you elaborate on what exactly that means?

I understand and appreciate offering alternatives for Atlasian voters (in fact, I don't even have a record of voting straight Federalist myself in most elections), but as an alternative, what makes Citizens different than the Labor and Federalist parties ideologically? For the reform bit, what sorts of changes do you stand for as a party that you all collectively agree needs to be fixed? What defined goals does the party stand behind that makes it more than a generic third party? What about the party's vision inspired you all to join and become active within it?

I am asking this out of genuine curiosity by the way, not as an attack.

[Leinad]

Yeah I was never trying to imply we were entirely right of center, or that Citizen's is trying to be right of center. Sorry if it came across otherwise.

Fhtagn is right in that many of us are left-of-center, especially using RL American terms. I mean, I've never done this because I view political ideology as more fluid than this, but if I was to lay out every single relevant political position I have I'd most likely have more "left-of-center" than "right-of-center" (especially if you count foreign policy doves as "left" and hawks as "right"--although that's obviously misleading at best, especially in Atlasia).

Most of the Federalist Party these days is relatively dovish, libertarian/liberal/moderate socially, and generally moderate fiscally--although, especially with fiscal issues, you'll find people quite a bit to the left or right, and there's considerable room for disagreement on social issues such as abortion.

Citizen’s is not just a big-tent party. We are also not a mere copy of the Federalist Party. Above posing as a big-tent party, we stand for choice and reform. Firstly, we don’t support a one party state and see it as harmful to the nature of our democracy. We believe that when none of the parties provide a clear enough choice for Atlasians, the people deserve new options. We also believe in building a coalition whose foundation is rooted in progress and reform, not status quo.

With that in mind, I’m curious as to why you have chosen now as the time to attack our party. You easily could have voiced your concerns when the party founded.

Regardless, don’t try to tell us what we are.

I would never intentionally do such a thing! And don't get defensive, it's not an "attack," I am genuinely trying to figure out where you guys stand, since I am not sure, and everything I have heard so far genuinely sounds like the Federalists

I, as fhtagn, am very curious what you mean by "choice and reform." That sounds basically exactly what our party stands for (as I said, "some level of liberty (which is open to interpretation) and conserve the institutions that make a constitutional republic functional"--I firmly believe the later part implies reform, since the Constitution can and sometimes should be incrementally amended).

Again, I'm not trying to attack anyone--and I sincerely apologize if you think I am--I just want to clarify what both of our parties stand for. Is it not good for everyone if everyone knows that?

[wxtransit]

Quick response here, as I have much to get to tomorrow morning and I don't have enough time to formulate a rebuttal.

The timing of this is...suspicious, to say the least. If you genuinely wanted to know about us, why now? Why when we are just picking up steam? But I digress. And no, we are not a "generic third party" nor a copy of the Federalists. How would we be a copy of the Federalists when we stand for choice in the electorate? The Federalists are dominating every section of Atlasia. I would say that's far from choice. We stand against the two-party system. I believe the Federalists probably don't take that same stance. Why would they? They're a part of the two-party system. And also, Leinad made a good point. The Feds are left-of-center according to American terms. But the Citizens Party is from the farthest right to the farthest left. But again, I digress. We stand for much beyond what we have listed here, but again, I don't have time to list all of it. You all could wait until our convention Thursday when we outline our platform so that you can see all of our policy stances.

If you have more concerns, please PM me or DFL so that we can leave this space open for declarations for our convention. Thank you.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

everything I have heard so far genuinely sounds like the Federalists

That is the danger of pitching your tent so broad is includes everyone from social democrats to libertarians.

[wxtransit]

everything I have heard so far genuinely sounds like the Federalists

That is the danger of pitching your tent so broad is includes everyone from social democrats to libertarians.

lol

[Leinad]

First of all, stop the conspiracy theories, that's silly.

And I am not in favor of a single-party system or against choice, for crying out loud. Do you not realize that most of my non-Atlasia posts on the forum are criticizing the real-life two-party system?

Leinad made a good point. The Feds are left-of-center according to American terms.

I never said that, I'm just contrasting us to the GOP.

everything I have heard so far genuinely sounds like the Federalists

That is the danger of pitching your tent so broad is includes everyone from social democrats to libertarians.

lol

I'm confused, are we too small a tent or too big a tent?

[fhtagn]

I am asking this because it was brought up in your response to Leinad. It has nothing to do with "suspicious timing", nor did anything I ask even remotely suggest I was attacking you. As for the timing part, asking what you stand for when the party is picking up steam is far from an inappropriate time to try and understand a growing party's values. It by no means is a way of putting you guys down.

I'm fine with waiting and seeing, but it was you and DFL who brought it up, which is why I asked for an explanation so that I can understand (and the rest of Atlasia I'm sure). I also never called you a "generic third party", I asked what makes Citizens more than that.

[wxtransit]

I am asking this because it was brought up in your response to Leinad. It has nothing to do with "suspicious timing", nor did anything I ask even remotely suggest I was attacking you. As for the timing part, asking what you stand for when the party is picking up steam is far from an inappropriate time to try and understand a growing party's values. It by no means is a way of putting you guys down.

I'm fine with waiting and seeing, but it was you and DFL who brought it up, which is why I asked for an explanation so that I can understand (and the rest of Atlasia I'm sure). I also never called you a "generic third party", I asked what makes Citizens more than that.

Another quick response - we only brought it up to announce our campaign for leadership. Again, if you are interested, I highly suggest you wait until Thursday. And from our platform, we have quite explained to the rest of Atlasia what we stand for. What we have not we will define on Thursday. Otherwise, please PM me or DFL so we can keep this thread open for Citizens Party activity.

[wxtransit]

Citizens

Foreword:

The current party system appears to be more broken than ever. We appear to be badly served by an imperfect form of two-party politics which have drawn us into what many Atlasians describe as the “Nyman Consensus” or “Echo Chamber Consensus”. With many brilliant independent-minded Atlasians shut out of the political process due to not belonging to either main party, now more than ever Atlasia needs a strong, alternative political force willing to break the mold and reform our nation for the better. This is where “Citzens” comes into play. We purport to be a centrist, reform-minded party which can welcome independents and disaffected members of either main party. Not so we become “Labor-lite” or “Federalist-lite” or the “Moderate Hero Party” (far from it), but to offer genuinely different points of view, promote new and novel ideas and instill greater life in our political and party system. We want to serve as a platform to help newer or independent-minded Atlasians to rise, run for office and help change things for the better. If you feel independent voices require a stronger presence in Atlasia, if you want to see our Republic thriving under reasonable reform, if you believe in responsible governing in matters such as fiscal responsibility, technological development, constitutional reform, regional devolution or environmental protection (to name a few), then “Citizens” may just be the party for you.

This may answer a few of your questions. I appreciate your interest in the party, however, I need to study for final exams tomorrow, and I don't have time to formulate coherent rebuttals. Debate is what makes our democracy strong, and I would love to pick this up another time, just right now I need to study and other members of the Citizens Party may be declaring their candidacies soon and I don't want that to be drowned out in dialogue.

[Leinad]

Well, I look forward to seeing the platform! Hopefully it can clear it all up.

[Terry the Fat Shark]

I fully support the candidacies of WxTransit and DFL!

[thumb21]

I'm looking forward to seeing the platform. The Citizens are a beacon of hope for Independent politics in Atlasia!