Japan General Discussion: Abe Carries On
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 06:04:23 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  International General Discussion (Moderators: afleitch, Hash)
  Japan General Discussion: Abe Carries On
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 18
Author Topic: Japan General Discussion: Abe Carries On  (Read 37997 times)
Silent Hunter
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,308
United Kingdom


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2017, 05:05:52 PM »

I can understand uniform restrictions, but dyeing hair within a natural range? It's not like it's green or anything.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2017, 06:12:40 PM »

I can understand uniform restrictions, but dyeing hair within a natural range? It's not like it's green or anything.

I have no idea what the laws in Japan would say about this.  It would seem to me if the school is a private school then they should be able to have whatever rules they want.  The child can always choose not to attend and attend another school (public or private) instead.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2017, 07:06:06 AM »

Latest NTV poll (change on Sept)

Abe approval/disapproval 41.7(-0.4)/44.2(+3.2)

Party support
LDP    36.5 (-1.4)
KP     4.7 (+0.8)
JRP   3.1 (+1.8)
HP     4.2 (new)
DP    0.7 (-7.8)
CDP 13.8 (new)
JCP    4.5 (+1.3)

No post-election victory bounce for Abe/LDP
Logged
Lachi
lok1999
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,347
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -1.06, S: -3.02

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2017, 07:10:11 AM »

Was a bounce expected though?
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2017, 07:12:45 AM »


Usually after an election victory the cabinet and ruling party (which is LDP most of the time anyway) gets a bounce in support.  In some polls this is the case and in other not.  I think there was a bounce that is already wearing off after a week.  We are back to a mode where Abe popular support is not high even as the opposition in is a total mess and cannot take advantage of it.   
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2017, 08:35:47 AM »

Abe approval curve.  Still above water for now



Party support.  Purple is LDP.  CDP is Deep Blue.  Grey is no party.
CDP support at the highest level of any non-LDP party since 2012.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2017, 07:28:11 AM »

DP leader Maehara resigned to take  responsibility for the disarray following a failed merger with HP.  He will join HP. 

Ex-DP leader 岡田 克也(Okada Katsuya) who resigned in 2016 after DP's defeat in the 2016 Upper House elections will form a group of ex-DP independent MP.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2017, 09:08:31 AM »

It seems there are pressure for on Osaka governor 松井一郎(Matsui Ichirō) to resign as JRP leader given the JRP poor performance, especially in the Osaka district seats.

How much control does Toru Hashimoto have of JRP?
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2017, 09:51:06 AM »

It seems there are pressure for on Osaka governor 松井一郎(Matsui Ichirō) to resign as JRP leader given the JRP poor performance, especially in the Osaka district seats.

How much control does Toru Hashimoto have of JRP?

Hard to say.  I think last year I would say a lot.  But this year it seems Hashimoto has mostly disappeared and most likely have given up on the JRP project as a way to capture national power. It would not surprise me for him to re-appear to join the national LDP since his relationship with Abe has always been positive. 
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2017, 06:33:48 PM »

One of the reasons for the lack of defections to CDP from HP is that CDP leader 枝野 幸男(Edano Yukio), just like Koike before the election, seems to be prioritizing ideological purity over party growth. If seems Edano and Koike is learning the wrong lessons on why DPJ/DP failed.  They seems to think that DPJ/DP could not get their support up is due the ideological diversity of the party.  It seems to me that the ideological diversity in the LDP is just as great if not greater than DPJ/DP.  The real reason why DPJ/DP could not take off post-2012 is because DPJ was seen as incompetent after its 2009-2012 experience.   

I do agree  that the opposition cannot M&A its way back to victory and that it will take a few election cycles to beat LDP.  It seems to me the way to do it is not ideological purity but success at the prefecture government level.   I think CDP and HP should form an alliance and together work to do well in the 2019 prefecture level elections.  The resulting CDP-HP clout at the local level can demonstrate that they are parties that can rule and not just win elections.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2017, 06:34:55 PM »

One of the 3 JRP winners in district seats in Osaka resigned from the party.  JRP at the national level might be falling apart even as it did slightly better than feared at the PR section.
Logged
🦀🎂🦀🎂
CrabCake
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 19,192
Kiribati


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2017, 06:51:49 PM »

to be fair, I would be highly sceptical of letting people like Ozawa on board. He played an outright malicious role in the DJP era, and the few benefits of having him around have diminished as he has become ever less significant.
Logged
Tintrlvr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,286


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2017, 09:46:31 PM »

One of the reasons for the lack of defections to CDP from HP is that CDP leader 枝野 幸男(Edano Yukio), just like Koike before the election, seems to be prioritizing ideological purity over party growth. If seems Edano and Koike is learning the wrong lessons on why DPJ/DP failed.  They seems to think that DPJ/DP could not get their support up is due the ideological diversity of the party.  It seems to me that the ideological diversity in the LDP is just as great if not greater than DPJ/DP.  The real reason why DPJ/DP could not take off post-2012 is because DPJ was seen as incompetent after its 2009-2012 experience.  

I do agree  that the opposition cannot M&A its way back to victory and that it will take a few election cycles to beat LDP.  It seems to me the way to do it is not ideological purity but success at the prefecture government level.   I think CDP and HP should form an alliance and together work to do well in the 2019 prefecture level elections.  The resulting CDP-HP clout at the local level can demonstrate that they are parties that can rule and not just win elections.

I think this fundamentally misunderstands what the appeal of the opposition is and why people vote for opposition candidates. The opposition parties have to stand for something to get people to vote for them. They can stand for *different* things (i.e., the opposition parties don't have to present a cross-party ideologically unified front), although tactically this becomes harder to the extent they have electoral alliances in an FPTP system. But they have to stand for something. They can't just be an inferior version of the LDP, which is what an ideologically diverse, cobbled together opposition party is. The inferior version of the LDP might be able to win on the rare occasions when the LDP totally discredits itself (see 2009), but they can't hold on to power because they don't give anyone a reason to continue to support them once the unpopularity of the LDP has had time to wear off.

The important thing is that the opposition parties can never beat the LDP at its own game. The opposition parties will never be able to be all things to all people and will never be able to be the establishment or default choice (at least, not until they've won a second government term in a row). It is therefore irrelevant that the LDP has a great deal of internal ideological diversity (though less internal diversity, I think, than you are crediting it for, at least nowadays).

In fact, internal ideological diversity is a significant weakness for both the LDP and the opposition alike since it lends itself to disarray and ineffective governance. However, there is a distinct double-standard where the opposition parties are held to much higher standards of competence than the LDP, primarily because voters vote for the opposition for essentially optimistic reasons (thinking the country can be better than it is) but vote for the LDP for essentially pessimistic reasons (thinking what they know is the safest choice), so opposition voters have higher expectations of their politicians. The LDP therefore overcomes the disadvantage of ideological diversity causing disarray by being the low-expectations party, while the disarray that results from ideological diversity serves only to discredit the opposition parties.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2017, 06:39:58 AM »


I think this fundamentally misunderstands what the appeal of the opposition is and why people vote for opposition candidates. The opposition parties have to stand for something to get people to vote for them. They can stand for *different* things (i.e., the opposition parties don't have to present a cross-party ideologically unified front), although tactically this becomes harder to the extent they have electoral alliances in an FPTP system. But they have to stand for something. They can't just be an inferior version of the LDP, which is what an ideologically diverse, cobbled together opposition party is. The inferior version of the LDP might be able to win on the rare occasions when the LDP totally discredits itself (see 2009), but they can't hold on to power because they don't give anyone a reason to continue to support them once the unpopularity of the LDP has had time to wear off.

The important thing is that the opposition parties can never beat the LDP at its own game. The opposition parties will never be able to be all things to all people and will never be able to be the establishment or default choice (at least, not until they've won a second government term in a row). It is therefore irrelevant that the LDP has a great deal of internal ideological diversity (though less internal diversity, I think, than you are crediting it for, at least nowadays).

In fact, internal ideological diversity is a significant weakness for both the LDP and the opposition alike since it lends itself to disarray and ineffective governance. However, there is a distinct double-standard where the opposition parties are held to much higher standards of competence than the LDP, primarily because voters vote for the opposition for essentially optimistic reasons (thinking the country can be better than it is) but vote for the LDP for essentially pessimistic reasons (thinking what they know is the safest choice), so opposition voters have higher expectations of their politicians. The LDP therefore overcomes the disadvantage of ideological diversity causing disarray by being the low-expectations party, while the disarray that results from ideological diversity serves only to discredit the opposition parties.

Its is hard to argue against your position.  In this particular case the nature of the election system puts a premium on candidates quality.  If this election was fought on ideological grounds you can argue LDP-KP actually lost the election.  If we had the German election system with a 176 member D'Hondt PR district with a 5% threshold then LDP-KP would have been reduced to 82 out of 176 seats and Abe would be scrambling around to form a Grand coalition of LDP-HP or its Jamaica coalition of LDP-KP-JRP to form a government.  But the nature of the FPTP district seats and the voting pattern of electorate shows that candidate quality is key.

To have good quality candidates one needs a farm league of prefecture and city level politicians where issues that CDP seems to be running such as  Constitution and national security matters little.  For CDP to put ideological litmus tests  on these issues seems as foolish as Koike's reverse litmus test and will prevent the growth of CDP at the local level.  If they persist on this then they will just become a more moderate version of JCP  which would have dedicated core of supporters but little prospect of coming to power.
Logged
Tintrlvr
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,286


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2017, 02:01:08 PM »
« Edited: October 31, 2017, 02:03:40 PM by Tintrlvr »


I think this fundamentally misunderstands what the appeal of the opposition is and why people vote for opposition candidates. The opposition parties have to stand for something to get people to vote for them. They can stand for *different* things (i.e., the opposition parties don't have to present a cross-party ideologically unified front), although tactically this becomes harder to the extent they have electoral alliances in an FPTP system. But they have to stand for something. They can't just be an inferior version of the LDP, which is what an ideologically diverse, cobbled together opposition party is. The inferior version of the LDP might be able to win on the rare occasions when the LDP totally discredits itself (see 2009), but they can't hold on to power because they don't give anyone a reason to continue to support them once the unpopularity of the LDP has had time to wear off.

The important thing is that the opposition parties can never beat the LDP at its own game. The opposition parties will never be able to be all things to all people and will never be able to be the establishment or default choice (at least, not until they've won a second government term in a row). It is therefore irrelevant that the LDP has a great deal of internal ideological diversity (though less internal diversity, I think, than you are crediting it for, at least nowadays).

In fact, internal ideological diversity is a significant weakness for both the LDP and the opposition alike since it lends itself to disarray and ineffective governance. However, there is a distinct double-standard where the opposition parties are held to much higher standards of competence than the LDP, primarily because voters vote for the opposition for essentially optimistic reasons (thinking the country can be better than it is) but vote for the LDP for essentially pessimistic reasons (thinking what they know is the safest choice), so opposition voters have higher expectations of their politicians. The LDP therefore overcomes the disadvantage of ideological diversity causing disarray by being the low-expectations party, while the disarray that results from ideological diversity serves only to discredit the opposition parties.

Its is hard to argue against your position.  In this particular case the nature of the election system puts a premium on candidates quality.  If this election was fought on ideological grounds you can argue LDP-KP actually lost the election.  If we had the German election system with a 176 member D'Hondt PR district with a 5% threshold then LDP-KP would have been reduced to 82 out of 176 seats and Abe would be scrambling around to form a Grand coalition of LDP-HP or its Jamaica coalition of LDP-KP-JRP to form a government.  But the nature of the FPTP district seats and the voting pattern of electorate shows that candidate quality is key.

To have good quality candidates one needs a farm league of prefecture and city level politicians where issues that CDP seems to be running such as  Constitution and national security matters little.  For CDP to put ideological litmus tests  on these issues seems as foolish as Koike's reverse litmus test and will prevent the growth of CDP at the local level.  If they persist on this then they will just become a more moderate version of JCP  which would have dedicated core of supporters but little prospect of coming to power.

It's important to have good candidates who are also cohesive with the party message. CDP can't afford to have even local government candidates who bang on about how Japan should have the ability to wage war. Sure, those issues aren't especially important at the local government level, but they embarrass the party and harm the party's image on a national stage. It's not like there is a dearth of potential skilled politicians who are dovish.

Clearly, voters are responding to the CDP, or else it wouldn't be polling higher than any opposition party since 2009. Right after an election is a bad time to peak, of course, but the CDP has to hope that they can continue to carry forward the image of being something different - a party that actually stands for something - through the next election. Or else what's the point?
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #40 on: November 13, 2017, 08:20:13 AM »

A slew of polls has Abe's post election bounce getting his approval ratings to around the high 40s

Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2017, 06:58:24 AM »

Koike resigns as head of HP.  玉木 雄一郎(Tamaki Yūichirō) who was elected as joint HP leader awhile ago will now be the sole leader of HP.  The entire HP caucus with the exception of few MPs are all former DP members with an ex-DP leader as it s head.

So the original DP has now split into 3.  Left DP (DCP), Right DP (HP), and Upper House DP (DP).  Plus a bloc of ex-DP independents.  Most of the ex-DP independents will join a party (most likely one of HP CDP or DP) by December since the party fund allocation will be based on the number of MPs so each one of these parties will have an incentive to get these ex-DP independents to join.   

Over time most likely we will see these 3 parties either merge or form an alliance.  With Koike moving into the background I suspect the HP-JRP-TCJ alliance will dissolve.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2017, 07:03:39 AM »

If HP stays on as Conservative Center-Right opposition that would cut of any revival attempts of JRP.  The JRP has been losing vote share since 2012 and it seems that will continue.

PR vote of JRP

2012   20.4%
2013   11.9%
2014   15.7%  (after merging with most of YP in the form of YP splinter UP)
2016    9.2%  (after most ex-DP and ex-UP members left to merge with DPJ to form DP)
2017    6.1%

As long as HP in some form is around for 2019 Upper House elections JRP would most likely fall to 2%-3% with LDP gaining most of the vote lost by JRP and others going to HP.  I suspect JRP will devolve into an Osaka regional party which is strong at the regional level but will become weaker for national elections even in Osaka.
Logged
Lumine
LumineVonReuental
Moderators
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,610
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2017, 07:40:22 AM »


Can't help but find hilarious how things turned for Koike given the level of hype some months (even weeks) ago.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2017, 07:54:47 AM »


Can't help but find hilarious how things turned for Koike given the level of hype some months (even weeks) ago.

What is funny is I saw this coming.  I wrote back in July how she can make it to the top. The first point I made was "She has to avoid the Hashimoto trap of trying to go into national politics too early."  She went on to make that mistake.  It seems her governorship of Tokyo is now most likely ruined as well.

What's a realistic path for Koike to become Prime Minister?

It is not easy.  She has to avoid the Hashimoto trap of trying to go into national politics too early.  I would imagine the path is

1) She stays focused on Tokyo politics and gets a bunch of policy wins including a successful 2020 Olympics
2) 2018 national elections has LDP-KP losing their 2/3 majority and LDP barely above majority given the relative weakness of DP and JRP.  Abe steps down but is able to install a pro-Abe successor.
3) LDP decline at the national level continues but DP continues to be rudderless so it is not able to take advantage of the LDP's decline.  LDP-KP barely wins 2019 Upper House elections over a weak DP and JRP.  
4) Koike wins re-election in 2020
5) TPFA-KP cruse to easly re-election victory in 2021 in Tokyo Prefecture elections
6) Koike takes TPFA national and forms a Koike Party at the national level in 2021.
7) Koike Party forms an alliance with DP and KP at the national level under Koike's leadership.  Anti-Abe LDP factions defect to Koike Party.  Rump LDP which is pro-Abe forms an alliance with the pro-Abe JRP.
8  ) Koike Party-KP-DP defeats LDP-JRP in 2022 national elections with Koike as PM.
Logged
NewYorkExpress
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 24,823
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2017, 03:45:22 PM »


http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/30/asia/japan-emperor-akihito-abdication-intl/index.html

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.

This is huge news. Japan has only had two emperors since World War Two (Hirohito and Akihito).
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #46 on: December 02, 2017, 10:24:22 PM »
« Edited: December 03, 2017, 10:32:06 AM by jaichind »

A look ahead at 2019 Upper House elections.  It is not clear what sort of alliances will be made between HP CDP JCP and JRP.  I can see tactical alliances between HP-CDP, HP-JRP, and CDP-JCP. Single districts are too hard to know before we know what the alliances are.  But for multi-member districts most likely it will be a free for all.  For now I think it will look like:

東京(Tokyo) - 6 seats - LDP KP JCP CDP each with a seat.  HP JRP LP (far Left incumbent) LDP battle for the last 2.  LDP and HP more likely to win.
神奈川(Kanagawa) - 4 seats - LDP HP each with a seat.  KP CDP JCP LDP battle for the last 2. KP and CDP more likely to win.
大阪(Osaka) - 4 seats - LDP KP JRP each with a seat. JRP JCP HP CDP battle for the last 1. JCP more likely to win.
愛知(Aichi) - 4 seats - LDP KP each with a seat.  (DP incumbent as HP or CDP), ex-YP independent, JCP battle for the last 2.  (DP incumbent as HP or CDP) and JCP more likely to win.
北海道(Hokkaido) - 3 seat - LDP CDP each with a seat.  LDP CDP HP JCP NPD battle for the last 1. LDP more likely to win.
埼玉(Saitama) -3 seats - LDP CDP each with a seat.  KP HP JCP battle for the last 1.  KP more likely to win.
千葉(Chiba) - 3 seats - LDP to win 2 seats.  (DP incumbent as HP or CDP), JCP to battle for the last 1.  (DP incumbent as HP or CDP) more likely to win.
兵庫(Hyōgo) - 3 seats - LDP KP each with a seat.  JRP HP CDP JCP battle for the last 1.  JRP more likely to win.
福岡(Fukuoka) - 3 seats - LDP KP (DP incumbent as HP or CDP) with a seat each.  JCP also running but most likely will not win.
茨城(Ibaraki) - 2 seats - LDP with a seat. (DP incumbent as HP or CDP) LDP JCP battle for the last 1.   (DP incumbent as HP or CDP) most likely to win.
静岡(Shizuoka) - 2 seats - LDP (DP incumbent as HP or CDP) with a seat each.  JCP also running but most likely will not win.
京都(Kyoto) - 2 seats - LDP with a seat.  HP CDP JCP battle for the last 1.  JCP most likely to win.
広島(Hiroshima) - 2 seat - LDP with a seat.  (DP incumbent as HP or CDP) JCP JRP battle for the last 1.  (DP incumbent as HP or CDP) most likely to win.
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2017, 09:51:52 AM »
« Edited: December 03, 2017, 03:17:11 PM by jaichind »

Kyodo Abe approval/disapproval  47.2(-2.3)/40.4(+2.1)

Party support

LDP    37.1(-1.8)
KP       2.7(-1.3)
JRP      2.2(-0.5)
HP       3.2(-2.5)
LP       0.3(-0.1)
DP       1.8(+0.9)
CDP       12.5(-3.6)
SDP        1.1(+0.6)
JCP         3.1(±0.0)

Abe approval curve which surged as a result of election victory stabilizing and falling a bit

Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2017, 09:44:13 AM »
« Edited: December 10, 2017, 09:58:33 PM by jaichind »

富山県(Toyama) poll by local newspaper on Constitutional reform has 41.1 for an 35.3 against.



by demographics has



Which has men being for Constitutional change 49.5 vs 34.0 against and women being for 33.5 vs 36.4.  By age the youth seems to be opposed while the middle age demographics seems to be for.

 富山県(Toyama) has a fairly high pro-LDP lean so the fact that overall pro-Constitutional reform support is greater than opposition is not surprising.  

In an early October poll it has Abe cabinet support in 富山県(Toyama) at 47% which is the number 2 prefecture (first is 山口(Yamaguchi) where Abe is from.)


What is surprising are that the youth tends to be the age demographic most against  Constitutional change but at the same time the youth tends to be the most pro-LDP bloc.  Most likely explanation is the youth is attracted LDP as the party with a vision for economic revival and are likely to vote for LDP based on that vision even as it opposes LDP on non-economic policy issues.  
Logged
jaichind
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 27,153
United States


Political Matrix
E: 9.03, S: -5.39

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2017, 09:52:58 PM »

There seems to be talks between HP and DP to form a joint caucus in both houses which could be a prelude to a merger.  It seems this is more driven by the low poll ratings for both parties that if not reversed would lead to mass defections to CDP and/or political oblivion next election.  The hope is the news generated by a possible future merger might lead to positive political coverage in the news and as a result higher poll ratings for both parties and most likely the unified party.

The poll ratings for HP seems to be around 2%-3% range.

Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 ... 18  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.058 seconds with 12 queries.