Awaiting Trump's coal comeback, miners reject retraining

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

Liberals: haha the electorate am i right? what a bunch of losers. only hacks try and appeal to the elctorate. it's lucky in the future we are majority minority, because all minorities will always vote for us lol

Liberals: why do we lose all the time?

[IceSpear]

Liberals: haha the electorate am i right? what a bunch of losers. only hacks try and appeal to the elctorate. it's lucky in the future we are majority minority, because all minorities will always vote for us lol

Liberals: why do we lose all the time?

I'm not the one asking the latter question though. I know why liberals lose: because they don't pander to and stoke the resentments of the worst and most deplorable aspects of the American public.

[publicunofficial]

Liberals: haha the electorate am i right? what a bunch of losers. only hacks try and appeal to the elctorate. it's lucky in the future we are majority minority, because all minorities will always vote for us lol

Liberals: why do we lose all the time?

I'm not the one asking the latter question though. I know why liberals lose: because they don't pander to and stoke the resentments of the worst and most deplorable aspects of the American public.

"Winning elections is beneath us"

[IceSpear]

Liberals: haha the electorate am i right? what a bunch of losers. only hacks try and appeal to the elctorate. it's lucky in the future we are majority minority, because all minorities will always vote for us lol

Liberals: why do we lose all the time?

I'm not the one asking the latter question though. I know why liberals lose: because they don't pander to and stoke the resentments of the worst and most deplorable aspects of the American public.

"Winning elections is beneath us"

I find it kind of ironic that someone who constantly excoriates the Democrats for "selling out" and "not having principles" is now saying Democrats should pander to racists, misogynists, homophobes, xenophobes, etc. just to get points on the scoreboard. No thanks.

Oh, and Obama was a liberal who won twice. They inevitably will again when the voters get GOP fatigue.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Liberals: haha the electorate am i right? what a bunch of losers. only hacks try and appeal to the elctorate. it's lucky in the future we are majority minority, because all minorities will always vote for us lol

Liberals: why do we lose all the time?

Quite.

Urgh, this thread is sufficiently annoying that I might have to actually make some proper posts in it.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Firstly, what you people need to understand is that retraining programmes of this sort tend to be jokes, and the people for whom they are aimed (who are not stupid, or at least who are no more stupid than average) are well aware of this.

Secondly, you also all need to understand that the coal industry in the old sense - underground mines employing hundreds (sometimes thousands) of men and totally dominating certain regional economies - has been dead in the United States for getting on thirty years now. In the Appalachian coalfields especially, this is an industry that operates within the ruins of itself. Most former coal miners in the United States are old men with dust in their lungs living off UMWA pensions and whatever scraps the State throws them (hardly anything). Most of those who lost their jobs in the smaller collapse that occurred over the past decade are middle aged men with dust in their lungs and a dependency on opiate painkillers. And of course they all live a long way away from places with functioning economies; this is one of those times when the sheer scale of the United States presents a real problem.

Thirdly, this paragraph strikes me as fairly relevant?

Out-of-work miners cite many reasons beyond faith in Trump policy for their reluctance to train for new industries, according to Reuters interviews with more than a dozen former and prospective coal workers, career counselors and local economic development officials. They say mining pays well; other industries are unfamiliar; and there’s no income during training and no guarantee of a job afterward.

Let's repeat that last bit again, shall we?

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[pbrower2a]

But while one can get retraining one can get work, even if it is 'only' stocking shelves in a store. If one has been working in a coal mine, one has as much to unlearn for getting along in some other jobs, as in "appearance matters" and that the profanity that stays in the mine and does not leave is unacceptable in any job with even the slightest exposure to the public.

It is never easy to change careers, especially when the career pays less. But that is much more the norm in America. The glass ceilings are lower and even more rigid than ever. These are not good times.

[Indy Texas]

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That is the case for literally every kind of education/training in this country.

[Bacon King]

That is the case for literally every kind of education/training in this country.

lol what are you even talking about

[pbrower2a]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

That is the case for literally every kind of education/training in this country.

Indeed one of the signs of a bad educational institution is that it promises economic success after graduating. Corinthian Colleges (remember them? the for-profit trade schools that the Obama administration practically shut down by stopping government loans to attending schools whose graduates had a high rate of fault --  unlike schools with modest promises and modest costs like some inexpensive trade schools and highly-selective colleges and universities) typically promised a job upon graduation. Harvard can't make such a promise. 

[Indy Texas]

That is the case for literally every kind of education/training in this country.

lol what are you even talking about

I didn't get paid a salary to attend college, and I had to spend a few months looking for a job after I graduated.

So clearly I should have just not gone to college.

[Santander]

That is the case for literally every kind of education/training in this country.

lol what are you even talking about

I didn't get paid a salary to attend college, and I had to spend a few months looking for a job after I graduated.

So clearly I should have just not gone to college.

This is ignorant beyond words.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

A college student has no dependents, and indeed often is a dependent themself. If you are the sole breadwinner for a household, spending a significant amount of time with no income is no option.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

American liberals are truly awful.

It's disorienting to read ostensibly left-leaning people sh**tting on coal miners for not getting on their bike and looking for work as if they're Norman Tebbit.  

[Tintrlvr]

Firstly, what you people need to understand is that retraining programmes of this sort tend to be jokes, and the people for whom they are aimed (who are not stupid, or at least who are no more stupid than average) are well aware of this.

I do agree with this. "Retraining" is a favored bipartisan talking point, but it's also virtually valueless.

[IceSpear]

American liberals are truly awful.

It's disorienting to read ostensibly left-leaning people sh**tting on coal miners for not getting on their bike and looking for work as if they're Norman Tebbit.  

It's even more disorienting to see maroon avatars only come out of the woodwork when the topic is about the plight of poor white men.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A college student has no dependents, and indeed often is a dependent themself. If you are the sole breadwinner for a household, spending a significant amount of time with no income is no option.

This is exactly so. It's honestly really shocking that people here don't seem to understand this or why it is a problem. Or, indeed, how unpleasant and callous it makes them seem.

Of course the fact that there's no guarantee of employment at the end is an equally big problem and for similar reasons. Fundamentally, this is not the state looking after its citizens; this is the State trying to look as if it looks after its citizens. It's about ticking a box so that voters in the suburbs believe that Something Is Being Done To Help Those Poor People and nothing else.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

It's disorienting to read ostensibly left-leaning people sh**tting on coal miners for not getting on their bike and looking for work as if they're Norman Tebbit.

Yeah, it's real down the rabbit hole stuff isn't it?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I do agree with this. "Retraining" is a favored bipartisan talking point, but it's also virtually valueless.

It's essentially a scam. And people wonder why Americans have so little faith in their politicians or why turnouts are so low; indeed in the areas in question they are amongst the lowest in the entire country now. Didn't used to be.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I didn't get paid a salary to attend college, and I had to spend a few months looking for a job after I graduated.

So clearly I should have just not gone to college.

You're parents are rich though. Not exactly a comparable situation.

[IceSpear]

It's even more disorienting to see maroon avatars only come out of the woodwork when the topic is about the plight of poor white men.

I know that you're an extremely stupid individual with an IQ lower than that of a typical Golden Retriever, but you must at least be aware of the concept of 'the family unit' or of 'local economies'?

Lol. You're exhibit A of my point in that post, so I thank you for making an appearance.

If only the poor neglected white male coal miners were as lucky as the Black Belt and inner city ghettos which are written off as lost causes and left to rot.

By the way, if you're going to talk about intelligence, you should probably learn the difference between you're and your.

[Beet]

Al has had a particular interest in coal miners since he joined the forum well over a decade ago. At that time he had a D-WV avatar and was still realpolitik. I don't think he's trying to imply that it's some sort of either-or going on between white coal miners and working class people of color, even if that seems to be the frame in which American partisan politics has developed. Now, sometime several years later he started getting off on insulting folks, which I have been on the receiving end of myself, and it's not a trait of his that I find elevates his esteem, either.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

It's even more disorienting to see maroon avatars only come out of the woodwork when the topic is about the plight of poor white men.

I know that you're an extremely stupid individual with an IQ lower than that of a typical Golden Retriever, but you must at least be aware of the concept of 'the family unit' or of 'local economies'?

Lol. You're exhibit A of my point in that post, so I thank you for making an appearance.

If only the poor neglected white male coal miners were as lucky as the Black Belt and inner city ghettos which are written off as lost causes and left to rot.

That's the point: the white coal miners are, statistically speaking, the same as the Black Belt rural dwellers, the urban ghettos, the native reservations and every other "left behind" location in the US. Why sectarianise what is a cross-racial phenomena?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If only the poor neglected white male coal miners were as lucky as the Black Belt and inner city ghettos which are written off as lost causes and left to rot.

Right, they're all victims of a political system in which they have no agency and less influence, one result of which no attempt is made to humanise the impact of economic change or to tackle structural economic inequities.

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It's after midnight and I've been working a lot today so typos will happen

[IceSpear]

They aren't the same. White coal miners punch far above their weight when you compare the sheer number of them vs. blacks living in poverty. Despite being way less in size, they receive far more sympathy, attention, and help from politicians. It's the epitome of white privilege, ironically, considering they are frequently pointed to as a group that invalidates the concept. It's all about facing less barriers than a minority in a similar situation does, and also why it's mainly whites who overcome these barriers then preach about bootstraps. The double standard is annoying.