Sane/Non-Trumpist Republicans - why are you still Republicans?
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  Sane/Non-Trumpist Republicans - why are you still Republicans?
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Author Topic: Sane/Non-Trumpist Republicans - why are you still Republicans?  (Read 3120 times)
Indy Texas
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« on: November 10, 2017, 08:48:03 PM »

If this whole Roy Moore catastrophe isn't proof enough that you've lost control of your party and it has become a total circus controlled by charlatans, sex offenders, racists and theocrats, what is it going to take?
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JA
Jacobin American
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2017, 09:01:23 PM »

This is a pretty dumb question, honestly. Although I despise the GOP and agree that a lot of its officials are some form of scoundrel or degenerate, there are also quite a lot of relatively decent Republicans left in office. The worst of the party's officials always attract the most attention and publicity, so it usually looks worse than it is. There are what, 52 Republicans in the Senate and over 200 in the House, yet only a dozen or so make national headlines for their crazy beliefs and behavior. However, there's no doubt that there's certainly a greater surge in the number of crazies vying for (and succeeding in obtaining) positions of power in the party.

Personally, I find their policies, especially when hidden behind a smile and clean record, to be even worse than their rhetoric and personal histories.
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Bismarck
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2017, 09:55:21 PM »

While a large element of the GOP has gone in a direction that I cannot follow, I still support most of the core planks of the party. There are still many leaders in the party who believe in responsible center right government. Eric Holcomb and Todd Young from my home state are good examples of this. While the rise of Trump has made the crazy wing more powerful as of late, that is clearly completely unsustainable and while I'm not completely optimistic I do think the reasonable parts of the party will eventually rein in the party's excesses. Regardless, the Democratic Party seems to be on track to move further left, so I don't have many other options except to support the reasonable candidates in primaries and back folks like Holcomb and Young.
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2017, 10:28:18 PM »

I don’t let people define a party, especially when those people don’t represent a majority of the party.
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Inmate Trump
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2017, 11:02:05 PM »

While a large element of the GOP has gone in a direction that I cannot follow, I still support most of the core planks of the party. There are still many leaders in the party who believe in responsible center right government. Eric Holcomb and Todd Young from my home state are good examples of this. While the rise of Trump has made the crazy wing more powerful as of late, that is clearly completely unsustainable and while I'm not completely optimistic I do think the reasonable parts of the party will eventually rein in the party's excesses. Regardless, the Democratic Party seems to be on track to move further left, so I don't have many other options except to support the reasonable candidates in primaries and back folks like Holcomb and Young.

I admire your loyalty to your party and it’s values (er, it’s now seemingly former values).

I would posit a theory, however, that electing Democrats...however much you disagree with them...might actually serve as a wake up call to the GOP that they need to get it together and abandon the crazy wing of the party that has taken over.
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Mr. Reactionary
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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2017, 11:13:54 PM »

Anthony weiner. Bob Menendez. Bill clinton.

OMG all dems must be pedos too!
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2017, 11:17:18 PM »

While a large element of the GOP has gone in a direction that I cannot follow, I still support most of the core planks of the party. There are still many leaders in the party who believe in responsible center right government. Eric Holcomb and Todd Young from my home state are good examples of this. While the rise of Trump has made the crazy wing more powerful as of late, that is clearly completely unsustainable and while I'm not completely optimistic I do think the reasonable parts of the party will eventually rein in the party's excesses. Regardless, the Democratic Party seems to be on track to move further left, so I don't have many other options except to support the reasonable candidates in primaries and back folks like Holcomb and Young.
I once was an independent who believed as you do.  I hope that someday I might once more be an independent who believes as you do, but at present in the Republican Party, all supporting the sane responsible Republicans does is empower the crazy irresponsible ones.
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HillGoose
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2017, 11:19:45 PM »

because McCain, Romney, Bush, and Cheney are.

I have hope we'll return to those kind of guys.
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America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗
TexArkana
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2017, 11:44:28 PM »

Anthony weiner. Bob Menendez. Bill clinton.

OMG all dems must be pedos too!

Wait, you just mentioned 3 people who aren't pedophiles...
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Virginiá
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 12:00:17 AM »

There is nothing wrong or unusual about a reasonable, sane Republican wanting to stick around to hopefully turn their party around at some point. Frankly Democrats need those people to stick around and fight the capture of their party by loons bent on disruption and most definitely not any semblance of governing. America's system as it stands now still needs at least two viable major parties to have some semblance of a functional democracy with a healthy competition of ideas. And of course there is the question of where these sane Republicans would go if they left their party. The Democratic Party? Lefties should hope not! That is, at least not in such quantity that they could meaningful change the ideological lean of the party.

Although this question does also put more light on the need for a better way of electing lawmakers - preferably some sort of proportional representation, so we can have more parties and not artificially prop up parties the public has long wanted to dispense with.
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IceSpear
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 12:02:05 AM »

There is nothing wrong or unusual about a reasonable, sane Republican wanting to stick around to hopefully turn their party around at some point. Frankly Democrats need those people to stick around and fight the capture of their party by loons bent on disruption and most definitely not any semblance of governing. America needs at least two viable major parties to have some semblance of a healthy democracy with competition of ideas. And of course there is the question of where these sane Republicans would go if they left their party. The Democratic Party? Lefties should hope not! That is, at least not in such quantity that they could meaningful change the ideological lean of the party.

Although this question does also put more light on the need for a better way of electing lawmakers - preferably some sort of proportional representation, so we can have more parties and not artificially prop up parties the public has long wanted to dispense with.

I could understand not becoming a Democrat. I'm not sure about the reasoning for not becoming an independent.
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TPIG
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2017, 12:28:28 AM »

  I'm still a Republican because the Republican Party remains the best vehicle to promote the ideas/principles that I believe in, such as free-market economics, a strong and globally present military, and a defense of family values. The grotesque actions of people like Roy Moore don't make the validity of the previously mentioned principles suddenly moot.

  What else should I do? Join the Democrats? They continue to move leftward and leftward, and don't represent me on nearly any issues. Join the Liberatarian or Constitution Parties? Then none of the people I support would ever be elected, and my principles would never be implemented.

  I'm disheartened and angered by some of the trends in my party, and I understand that my brand of conservatism is not currently the "in" brand with much of the Republican base, but I'm going to stick with my party and do my part to help turn it around.
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Classic Conservative
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2017, 12:35:05 AM »

Anthony weiner. Bob Menendez. Bill clinton.

OMG all dems must be pedos too!

Wait, you just mentioned 3 people who aren't pedophiles...
Anthony Weiner isn't a pedophile? The guy is in prison for child pedophilia
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2017, 12:41:42 AM »
« Edited: November 11, 2017, 12:45:15 AM by Statilius the Epicurean »

Why would a Republican in e.g. New York renounce the party based on a scandal to a Senate candidate in Alabama? This nationalisation of politics in the US is ridiculous

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Orser67
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2017, 02:15:09 AM »

Personally, I hope that non-Trumpist Republicans remain in the party, and eventually take it back from Trump et. al.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2017, 02:33:41 AM »

     The party has run into some issues, but it still better represents my values than the Democrats, who will never be a vehicle for the kinds of policies that I support or the kind of government that I want to see run. Jumping ship would be entirely counterproductive for me.

Personally, I hope that non-Trumpist Republicans remain in the party, and eventually take it back from Trump et. al.

     This is the attitude that anyone who is not a Trumpist should be embracing. There is absolutely no chance of the Republican Party withering away or dying out, and if you think there is then you haven't been following politics long enough. Either non-Trumpists take back the GOP, or a Trumpist GOP will return to power again at some point down the road. Single party rule is not a sustainable paradigm in the United States.
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Person Man
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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2017, 05:35:07 AM »

Anthony weiner. Bob Menendez. Bill clinton.

OMG all dems must be pedos too!

Wait, you just mentioned 3 people who aren't pedophiles...
Anthony Weiner isn't a pedophile? The guy is in prison for child pedophilia



Yeah, but Republicans stick by theirs!
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2017, 07:06:57 AM »


Huh

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They represent the entirety of the party, actually.

Well then you clearly know nothing of the Republican Party
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2017, 07:07:36 AM »

Anthony weiner. Bob Menendez. Bill clinton.

OMG all dems must be pedos too!

Wait, you just mentioned 3 people who aren't pedophiles...
Anthony Weiner isn't a pedophile? The guy is in prison for child pedophilia
Sexting a 15-year old is deplorable behaviour and he is serving time as a consequence of that, but I would need much stronger evidence before I go as far as to call a man a peadophile. The evidence mostly points towards Weiner being obsessed with his own c*ck and being an adulterous womanizer in general.

In general I think the "peadophile" label is thrown around far too easily in a way that devalues what a crime ACTUAL acts of peadophilia are. There is a huge difference between having sexual relations with an actual child in biological terms (pre-puberty) and a very young man or woman (as a 15 year old would be). There are laws that restrict such acts with minors but they are still not similar to actual peadophilia. Being attracted to very young but sexually mature (in biological terms) men or women is biologically natural, not an illness or something sick in itself. But actually carrying out sexual acts with such a minor is often both immoral and illegal. It's just not the same as peadophila. Actual peadophila - being sexually attracted to actual children in biological terms - is not natural and it is sick.

Ask yourself this. Would you be comfortable with Anthony Weiner working in a kindergarten? I would, because there is no evidence that he is sexually attracted to actual children.
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TheSaint250
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2017, 07:11:21 AM »

Also, to answer the OP, “charlatans, sex offenders, racists, and theocrats” represent 0.000000001% of the party
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mvd10
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2017, 07:14:34 AM »

Most GOP senators, representatives and governors still are quite decent (if not a bit too conservative and spineless). And it's not like I'd be very welcome in the Democratic Party. But since I'm not American the main reason I have a blue avatar is to show my affiliation with the European centre-right (VVD Green heart).
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 07:19:24 AM »

Most GOP senators, representatives and governors still are quite decent (if not a bit too conservative and spineless). And it's not like I'd be very welcome in the Democratic Party. But since I'm not American the main reason I have a blue avatar is to show my affiliation with the European centre-right (VVD Green heart).
VVD stands for Very Villainous Democrats. Tongue
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 07:32:32 AM »

Also, to answer the OP, “charlatans, sex offenders, racists, and theocrats” represent 0.000000001% of the party

Somehow I doubt that there are 100 billion Republicans, which is the minimum number required for your claim to be true if you were trying to be literal. I know you weren't, but it does go show how many Republicans are numerically challenged and throw out numbers without regard for their meaning. Of course, better examples of Republican innumeracy are the House and Senate tax cut bills. Especially precious are the self-serving ones who claim it'll pay for itself.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2017, 08:54:24 AM »
« Edited: November 11, 2017, 08:56:27 AM by Fuzzy Bear »

While a large element of the GOP has gone in a direction that I cannot follow, I still support most of the core planks of the party. There are still many leaders in the party who believe in responsible center right government. Eric Holcomb and Todd Young from my home state are good examples of this. While the rise of Trump has made the crazy wing more powerful as of late, that is clearly completely unsustainable and while I'm not completely optimistic I do think the reasonable parts of the party will eventually rein in the party's excesses. Regardless, the Democratic Party seems to be on track to move further left, so I don't have many other options except to support the reasonable candidates in primaries and back folks like Holcomb and Young.

I admire your loyalty to your party and it’s values (er, it’s now seemingly former values).

I would posit a theory, however, that electing Democrats...however much you disagree with them...might actually serve as a wake up call to the GOP that they need to get it together and abandon the crazy wing of the party that has taken over.

Perhaps that's why some Democrats voted for Trump; they wanted to rein in the identity politcs and anti-working class globalism (manifesting in Open Borders Mania) that has become the new cornerstone of the Democratic Party.  Perhaps some Democrats don't view illegal aliens as their fellow countrymen (as a speaker at the 2016 Democratic National Convention actually said).  

Perhaps some Democrats aren't real happy about Maxine Waters becoming a "mainstream" figure.  Or where folks are labeled bigots because they don't want folks who are anatomically different from them to share the same public rest room.  Or a party that labels Biblical teachings as "hate speech", and they must reject Scripture in favor of Obergefell when discussing what marriage is in the eyes of God.

Has their strategy worked?  Has the Democratic Party become more to their liking?  Appeals like this make me think of Morgan Freeman in Lean on Me telling a 9th grader trying to get over on him that he was trying to con a con man.
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Fuzzy Stands With His Friend, Chairman Sanchez
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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2017, 09:06:13 AM »

Anthony weiner. Bob Menendez. Bill clinton.

OMG all dems must be pedos too!

Wait, you just mentioned 3 people who aren't pedophiles...
Anthony Weiner isn't a pedophile? The guy is in prison for child pedophilia

Rep. Gerry Studds (D-MA) slept with a 17 year old male PAGE and was merely censured.  He later became a committee chairman (Merchant Marine and Fisheries).  And he kept getting re-elected.

Rep. Mel Reynolds (D-IL) went to prison for sex with a teenager in the 1990s.

Rob Lowe allegedly slept with a 16 year old during the Democratic National Convention in 1988 (granted that the age of consent in Georgia at that time was 14). 

Let's get real.  This sort of behavior is wrong, but it isn't a partisan issue.
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