Alabama Megathread 2: Thou Shall Not Touch Teenage Girls

[smoltchanov]

Some observations from a Russian person, who spent part of his life in US.....

1. I hate Roy Moore. And even not because of the last scandal (which, of course, must be carefully investigated, and, if supported by FACTS (not words) - all neccessary measures against him must be taken, American law contains all, what's needed, for that), but more so because of his generally ultraextreme positions on a lot of issues (i generally hate all extremists, be them "right" or "left"). But i still think he will be elected, albeit narrowly. The accusations came too early, they will not fade completely, but they will subside enough to give him win in really conservative Albama. As i also said - too many Alabama's Republicans and Indies will be brought back by 100% pro-choice position of Jones. In the end it will outweigh...

2. While i hate Roy Moore - i have no respect for his women accusers, who charge him with anything (from inapproprieties to crimes) NOW, 20-30 years after everything happened. I would respect them a lot if they would do that immediately after what happened, or, at least, soon enough after that, but 20-30 years later? One can't NOT to think that it was simply an appropriate moment to get a revenge (and, may be, considerable material compensation) - and nothing more. There is a very old and admittedly - very sexist - Russian anecdote about 80-years old woman crying "rape" on city street.. I will not quote it here, but most of you will wasily guess an idea.

3. While i (and almost all people in Russia) fully support a principle of political and economical equality between genders , most people here (including vast majority of women) have no other word then "crazies" about US feminist movement, which, seemingly, more conserned about why "professor" is a "masculine"  word, and how to call woman professor "genderly correct", then about these above mentioned  problems of political and economic equality. And, yes, vast majority of Russian woman (there are some ultrafeminists too, but - not many) want men's attention (i would even say - frequently crave for that). And yes - they want to get married, say "thank you!" when man gives them way in transport, or when he pays for BOTH in restaurants.  And i agree with them - there is nothing humiliating in that. Woman in Russia can (legitimately) call man "a fool" if he tries to slap her ass, or even - slap him in the face, but i  don't think about anything else possible, and, surely, it wouldn't be a first page news in Russian press for weeks. For good or for bad - feel the difference. But i never saw so frightened (or even "terrorized") by feminist movement men in Russia as i saw in the West.....

[Devout Centrist]

Maybe it's the language barrier, but half of your posts seems rather deranged and off-base

[Kamala]

If you’re terrorized by feminism, it means it’s working.

[EnglishPete]

Don't know if posted but:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/retired-alabama-cop-on-roy-moore-we-were-also-told-to-make-sure-that-he-didnt-hang-around-the-cheerleaders/

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The claim that Moore was banned from the mall has been thoroughly debunked

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https://www.roymoore.org/Press-Releases/126/National-Media-Bias-Debunked%3a-Key-Witnesses-Refute-that-Judge-Moore-was-on-Mall-Ban-List

So now they've brought out yet another clown 'witness' who says "well we never actually received complaints about Moore but we heard rumours he was banned from the mall so we were asked to keep an eye on him. FFS. Its a sign of how partisan feeling can effect people's judgement that people are believing this rubbish

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but EnglishPete is actually making a decent argument here. Doesn't really matter though since I consider the 14 year old to be a smoking gun and also think Moore's past removals from office disqualify him.

[smoltchanov]

Maybe it's the language barrier, but half of your posts seems rather deranged and off-base

I don't care about how they seems to other. I wanted to say something, and i did that. BTW, my English was always considered to be good. So, it's not (most likely) a language barrier, it's a different mentality...

[smoltchanov]

god you are the absolute worst

Thank You! It's a compliment from such a person.

[smoltchanov]

If you’re terrorized by feminism, it means it’s working.

In US - may be. In Russia - Thanks God - no. I have a number of women here in my Moscow office, and ALL of them share my position))))

[smoltchanov]

god you are the absolute worst

Thank You! It's a compliment from such a person.

Smoltchanov, do you understand why a fourteen-year old sexual assault victim (in Alabama, nonetheless) might not go through with making a public accusation against an assistant district attorney? Do you have any empathy for the experiences of other human beings, particularly traumatized minors who were molested by a person in a position of power?

I already said that if she would inform an adult about assault immediately, who would help her to hire a lawyer, who would initiate a court proceedings against assisatant district attorney (he is not a God after all), and so on - i would feel a great sympathy and be fully on her side. But - not 32 years later, when "suitable moment" arose. And if such "persons in a position of power"  (as that assistant District attorney) are such "untouchables" in US - then how can you pretend to be "the leaders of democratic world"? How better are you (and your leaders) then our Russian leaders? Or - leaders of China. Or - even Zimbabve??? Who gave you rights to "teach other the lessons"? And so on..

And about "my English". I scored 94 in master level test in English school - not so bad. I wish you would speak Russian as good))))

[smoltchanov]

Maybe it's the language barrier, but half of your posts seems rather deranged and off-base

I don't care about how they seems to other. I wanted to say something, and i did that. BTW, my English was always considered to be good. So, it's not (most likely) a language barrier, it's a different mentality...

Uh, no? Your English is embarrassingly bad, even if one is generous enough to take into account the fact that your native tongue uses a completely different script.

Seriously, what does "I don't care about how they seems to other" even mean? Are you saying that you don't care whether or not other people can comprehend what you say? If so, then isn't the whole point of this whole, you know, language thing rendered pretty much obsolete?

Don't pretend that you didn't understood what i wrote. I wrote that don't care about how other people "feel" about my posts. And you understood that perfectly....

[Pyro]

god you are the absolute worst

Thank You! It's a compliment from such a person.

Smoltchanov, do you understand why a fourteen-year old sexual assault victim (in Alabama, nonetheless) might not go through with making a public accusation against an assistant district attorney? Do you have any empathy for the experiences of other human beings, particularly traumatized minors who were molested by a person in a position of power?

I already said that if she would inform an adult about assault immediately, who would help her to hire a lawyer, who would initiate a court proceedings against assisatant district attorney (he is not a God after all), and so on - i would feel a great sympathy and be fully on her side. But - not 32 years later, when "suitable moment" arose. And if such "persons in a position of power"  (as that assistant District attorney) are such "untouchables" in US - then how can you pretend to be "the leaders of democratic world"? How better are you (and your leaders) then our Russian leaders? Or - leaders of China. Or - even Zimbabve??? Who gave you rights to "teach other the lessons"? And so on..

And about "my English". I scored 94 in master level test in English school - not so bad. I wish you would speak Russian as good))))

Let's be real for a minute. Enough of these talking points, already, about how this or that woman "should" have revealed the details of their assault at an earlier date. Sexual assault and abuse is incredibly psychologically ruinous. We live in a society that downplays sexual misconduct as a minor infraction, where the woman is expected to "lighten up" and accept whichever sickening advances she is presented with. Workplace harassment has become such a normality that women have often reported tendencies to avoid enclosed spaces like elevators whenever possible.

Sexual assault is an institution. This is not phenomenon of celebrities, or businessmen, or politicians - this is a male phenomenon. Men (especially those in power) are -expected- to act this way, and in some cases are encouraged to do so by their peers. This is the result of decades of normalizing this behavior as appropriate, with any woman who speaks out immediately demeaned, disgraced and discredited - not to mention sometimes faced with the challenge of being blamed herself for the forced advance. The intensity of these negative consequences could, understandably, have the potential to silence those who wish they could reveal the truth - especially when you are dealing with an individual under 18.

Survivors who come forward need to be admired and applauded for their courage.

[EnglishPete]

god you are the absolute worst

Thank You! It's a compliment from such a person.

Smoltchanov, do you understand why a fourteen-year old sexual assault victim (in Alabama, nonetheless) might not go through with making a public accusation against an assistant district attorney? Do you have any empathy for the experiences of other human beings, particularly traumatized minors who were molested by a person in a position of power?

I'm going to agree with you on that one. Its entirely plausible that a molestation victim would not come forward during earlier election battles. What is not plausible is that the alleged mall ban would not have come out earlier. Roy Moore was a candidate in a rather bitter local election fight in the early eighties. If the mall ban had been real that certainly would have come out both then and in other elections.

[CatoMinor]

Considering Alabaman's take what Trump says as Gosple truth,  I suppose it's time to accept Senator Moore

[Alabama_Indy10]

Considering Alabaman's take what Trump says as Gosple truth,  I suppose it's time to accept Senator Moore

Did you forget that Trump endorsed Luther Strange?

[Holmes]

Some people are so annoying with the "Trump endorsed Moore, muh Alabunga senator Moore"

[junior chįmp]

So...is Roy Moore still banned from the Gadsden Mall?

[America's Sweetheart ❤/𝕿𝖍𝖊 𝕭𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖞 𝖂𝖆𝖗𝖗𝖎𝖔𝖗]

Considering Alabaman's take what Trump says as Gosple truth,  I suppose it's time to accept Senator Moore

You're right, Senator Luther Strange is going to crush Doug Jones. Remember when Trump endorsed Strange?

[NeederNodder]

god you are the absolute worst

Thank You! It's a compliment from such a person.

Smoltchanov, do you understand why a fourteen-year old sexual assault victim (in Alabama, nonetheless) might not go through with making a public accusation against an assistant district attorney? Do you have any empathy for the experiences of other human beings, particularly traumatized minors who were molested by a person in a position of power?

I already said that if she would inform an adult about assault immediately, who would help her to hire a lawyer, who would initiate a court proceedings against assisatant district attorney (he is not a God after all), and so on - i would feel a great sympathy and be fully on her side. But - not 32 years later, when "suitable moment" arose. And if such "persons in a position of power"  (as that assistant District attorney) are such "untouchables" in US - then how can you pretend to be "the leaders of democratic world"? How better are you (and your leaders) then our Russian leaders? Or - leaders of China. Or - even Zimbabve??? Who gave you rights to "teach other the lessons"? And so on..

And about "my English". I scored 94 in master level test in English school - not so bad. I wish you would speak Russian as good))))

Let's be real for a minute. Enough of these talking points, already, about how this or that woman "should" have revealed the details of their assault at an earlier date. Sexual assault and abuse is incredibly psychologically ruinous. We live in a society that downplays sexual misconduct as a minor infraction, where the woman is expected to "lighten up" and accept whichever sickening advances she is presented with. Workplace harassment has become such a normality that women have often reported tendencies to avoid enclosed spaces like elevators whenever possible.

Sexual assault is an institution. This is not phenomenon of celebrities, or businessmen, or politicians - this is a male phenomenon. Men (especially those in power) are -expected- to act this way, and in some cases are encouraged to do so by their peers. This is the result of decades of normalizing this behavior as appropriate, with any woman who speaks out immediately demeaned, disgraced and discredited - not to mention sometimes faced with the challenge of being blamed herself for the forced advance. The intensity of these negative consequences could, understandably, have the potential to silence those who wish they could reveal the truth - especially when you are dealing with an individual under 18.

Survivors who come forward need to be admired and applauded for their courage.

[swf541]

god you are the absolute worst

Thank You! It's a compliment from such a person.

Smoltchanov, do you understand why a fourteen-year old sexual assault victim (in Alabama, nonetheless) might not go through with making a public accusation against an assistant district attorney? Do you have any empathy for the experiences of other human beings, particularly traumatized minors who were molested by a person in a position of power?

I already said that if she would inform an adult about assault immediately, who would help her to hire a lawyer, who would initiate a court proceedings against assisatant district attorney (he is not a God after all), and so on - i would feel a great sympathy and be fully on her side. But - not 32 years later, when "suitable moment" arose. And if such "persons in a position of power"  (as that assistant District attorney) are such "untouchables" in US - then how can you pretend to be "the leaders of democratic world"? How better are you (and your leaders) then our Russian leaders? Or - leaders of China. Or - even Zimbabve??? Who gave you rights to "teach other the lessons"? And so on..

And about "my English". I scored 94 in master level test in English school - not so bad. I wish you would speak Russian as good))))

Let's be real for a minute. Enough of these talking points, already, about how this or that woman "should" have revealed the details of their assault at an earlier date. Sexual assault and abuse is incredibly psychologically ruinous. We live in a society that downplays sexual misconduct as a minor infraction, where the woman is expected to "lighten up" and accept whichever sickening advances she is presented with. Workplace harassment has become such a normality that women have often reported tendencies to avoid enclosed spaces like elevators whenever possible.

Sexual assault is an institution. This is not phenomenon of celebrities, or businessmen, or politicians - this is a male phenomenon. Men (especially those in power) are -expected- to act this way, and in some cases are encouraged to do so by their peers. This is the result of decades of normalizing this behavior as appropriate, with any woman who speaks out immediately demeaned, disgraced and discredited - not to mention sometimes faced with the challenge of being blamed herself for the forced advance. The intensity of these negative consequences could, understandably, have the potential to silence those who wish they could reveal the truth - especially when you are dealing with an individual under 18.

Survivors who come forward need to be admired and applauded for their courage.

[EnglishPete]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but EnglishPete is actually making a decent argument here. Doesn't really matter though since I consider the 14 year old to be a smoking gun and also think Moore's past removals from office disqualify him.

I have to agree with you that Corfman is by far the most plausible accuser. Some of the accusations don't hold up at all. Beverly Nelson's testimony is highly problematic for a whole host of reasons that have already been discussed at length here and elsewhere. The Mall ban story doesn't add up at all for reasons already discussed.

Gena Richardson's story made no sense. She says he called her and spoke to her on the phone at school in an era when there were no cell phones.  Is she seriously suggesting that the school office would receive a call from a strange man and the take a child out of class to hand over their phone to her to take the call?

She has clearly done what a lot of fabulists do, take bits and pieces of other people's stories and incorporated them into the story that she wanted to tell. So she took the bit on the one story 'he spoke to me at school' and a bit of another 'he called me on the phone' and put the two together even though the combination makes no sense. So in the rest of the story she turned him down for a date then she accepted, they only kissed but the kiss was 'forceful' and you can see that the rest of the story follows the same pattern, putting bits of two different stories that she's seem from the media together to invent her own new story.

Becky Gray has likewise incorporated the discredited 'mall ban' story that she saw in the media into her tale.

The star witness for the prosecution, as you correctly identify, is Leigh Corfman. Her testimony was actually believable and didn't have immediately obvious flaws in if.

continued in next post ...

[CatoMinor]

Considering Alabaman's take what Trump says as Gosple truth,  I suppose it's time to accept Senator Moore

You're right, Senator Luther Strange is going to crush Doug Jones. Remember when Trump endorsed Strange?

And it was in favor of Moore, they still love Trump. Im sure there is a significant number of Republicans in Alabama who might have been ready to so t this rave out, but will vote because Trump is reminding them that some "Soft on crime liberal" is going to take their seat.

[Kamala]

Gena Richardson's story made no sense. She says he called her and spoke to her on the phone at school in an era when there were no cell phones.  Is she seriously suggesting that the school office would receive a call from a strange man and the take a child out of class to hand over their phone to her to take the call?

Yes? I mean, I’m not even that old and I know that’s how it worked. The school office probably also know Roy Moore was the assistant DA, so he’s not some random stranger.

Life before cell phones was... very different, to say the least.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Doug Jones' ads certainly pull no punches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOkOBm2V4nE

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Gena Richardson's story made no sense. She says he called her and spoke to her on the phone at school in an era when there were no cell phones.  Is she seriously suggesting that the school office would receive a call from a strange man and the take a child out of class to hand over their phone to her to take the call?

Yes? I mean, I’m not even that old and I know that’s how it worked. The school office probably also know Roy Moore was the assistant DA, so he’s not some random stranger.

Life before cell phones was... very different, to say the least.

Without passing judgment on the validity of the claims, I will say it was not uncommon for teachers to have phones in their classrooms as well. So the office could just connect Moore to the line for the right classroom and the girl could talk to him without even being taken out of class.

[The Other Castro]

Just got this sponsored ad on Facebook:



I assume he is talking about the JMC poll from 11/9-11/11.